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> I manage quite well without it, and many other Dutch do too I wonder how you can manage without WA in the Netherlands. For me, all group events, sports, kids

> I manage quite well without it, and many other Dutch do too I wonder how you can manage without WA in the Netherlands. For me, all group events, sports, kids' activities, trips, vacations, family things, etc are managed in a whatsapp group. To "App" has entered daily Dutch vocabulary as a verb (meaning sending a whatsapp message). I'm in dozens of groups (none of them created by me) and participating in anything without it would be very unpractical.

Freak_NL 8y ago
People mail, text, or call me. Those who use WhatsApp know this and have the decency to take that into consideration. I'll gladly deal with any downsides if that means maintaining the principled standpoint that being a member of society doesn't require owning either an Android or IOS smartphone, being forced to run someone's black-box proprietary software, and agreeing with some foreign mega-corporation's dubious terms of agreement. It's harmful for democratic society as a whole to engender such a dependency. Besides, if the experience of friends and colleagues is anything to go by, opting in to Whatsapp means you get its downsides too: that one group member who keeps spamming everyone with noise, the constant demand for attention, the gossipy, sometimes down-right stalkerish neighbourhood watch groups (glad my neighbourhood hasn't hung up those sycophantic Whatsapp street signs), not to mention Facebook looking over your shoulder at the metadata level.
- krageon 8y ago
  Every friend group has one or two people that interact with others like you do: It has to be on their terms, they have principles that get in the way, etc. That's beautiful and all the more power to you for doing so, but if you believe it doesn't impact you much more heavily than you make it seem here you are deluding yourself. You've made it so that including you in anything is effort. Effort that people need to expend consciously, and will not be the ground state. You've isolated yourself (to a certain degree) for your principles.
  - Freak_NL 8y ago
    Principles rarely come for free, and I accept plenty of usable alternatives that don't suffer from the limitations of Whatsapp — it's not like I'm shunning the internet, computers, or even electricity. If people don't feel like including me is worth the effort because they are stuck in a walled garden, then good riddance. No one around me feels like that though. They readily accept that expecting everyone to buy either an Android or an IOS smartphone on top of any other computing devices they may own is not reasonable. Besides, I'm not alone in taking this particular stance here in this country.
rvanmil 8y ago
> I wonder how you can manage without WA in the Netherlands. For me, all group events, sports, kids' activities, trips, vacations, family things, etc are managed in a whatsapp group This is the reason I have faint hope for government intervention here. Whatsapp has become critical infrastructure and a monopoly in NL. I would want to close my account when ads happen but it’s just too big an impact to do so. Because of the nature of messaging the alternatives are simply not an option unless everyone switches.

Freak_NL 8y ago

People mail, text, or call me. Those who use WhatsApp know this and have the decency to take that into consideration. I'll gladly deal with any downsides if that means maintaining the principled standpoint that being a member of society doesn't require owning either an Android or IOS smartphone, being forced to run someone's black-box proprietary software, and agreeing with some foreign mega-corporation's dubious terms of agreement. It's harmful for democratic society as a whole to engender such a dependency. Besides, if the experience of friends and colleagues is anything to go by, opting in to Whatsapp means you get its downsides too: that one group member who keeps spamming everyone with noise, the constant demand for attention, the gossipy, sometimes down-right stalkerish neighbourhood watch groups (glad my neighbourhood hasn't hung up those sycophantic Whatsapp street signs), not to mention Facebook looking over your shoulder at the metadata level.

krageon 8y ago
Every friend group has one or two people that interact with others like you do: It has to be on their terms, they have principles that get in the way, etc. That's beautiful and all the more power to you for doing so, but if you believe it doesn't impact you much more heavily than you make it seem here you are deluding yourself. You've made it so that including you in anything is effort. Effort that people need to expend consciously, and will not be the ground state. You've isolated yourself (to a certain degree) for your principles.
- Freak_NL 8y ago
  Principles rarely come for free, and I accept plenty of usable alternatives that don't suffer from the limitations of Whatsapp — it's not like I'm shunning the internet, computers, or even electricity. If people don't feel like including me is worth the effort because they are stuck in a walled garden, then good riddance. No one around me feels like that though. They readily accept that expecting everyone to buy either an Android or an IOS smartphone on top of any other computing devices they may own is not reasonable. Besides, I'm not alone in taking this particular stance here in this country.

rvanmil 8y ago

> I wonder how you can manage without WA in the Netherlands. For me, all group events, sports, kids' activities, trips, vacations, family things, etc are managed in a whatsapp group This is the reason I have faint hope for government intervention here. Whatsapp has become critical infrastructure and a monopoly in NL. I would want to close my account when ads happen but it’s just too big an impact to do so. Because of the nature of messaging the alternatives are simply not an option unless everyone switches.