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Preparations companies are making for Brexit
- ckastner 8y agoI believe that the title sounds more dramatic than the story actually is. A shifting regulatory environment is unpleasant, but not unusual for companies of certain scale, or certain industries. Ask any internationally operating bank.
- notahacker 8y agoThe banks and multinationals will be fine. The employees who find their jobs/departments have been relocated, the local service providers who benefited hugely from the larger companies' business less so.
- coldtea 8y agoSo, sort of like when the workers found their jobs/industries have been relocated to cheaper places in EU, China, etc, but now for the tenpercenters and/or financial employees who benefited from that previous round?
- grey-area 8y agoNo, everyone will be poorer (in money, opportunities, and in spirit). However it will mostly hit the poorer portions of the population - manual labourers who will see industries predicated on EU access disappear (car factories), agriculture, fishery which depends on EU subsidies that a London-centric government won't replicate, factories in poor areas like Wales which again rely on EU distributed subsidies, those who depend on benefits which will have to be dramatically cut due to falling tax revenue. The 'elite' or 'tenpercenters' as you call them will be just fine - they are flexible and wealthy enough to move country if required to preserve their wealth or found companies elsewhere, and will continue to have that opportunity. It's going to take decades for this to play out though, because of transition agreements and attempts to soften the impact we probably won't see it at first (unless they opt for the WTO rules version of Brexit).
- guitarbill 8y agoOn the other hand, good to hear about. Our team had 8 Europeans (including me), and while 6 of them left after Brexit (including me), I know a few people who are still on the fence. Life has largely gone on as normal, and the lack of talent has driven compensation up * . But unless you're a contractor making hay while the sun shines, it's good to keep things like this in mind. * also helps that a lot of business expenses, such as hardware, are USD, so GBP losing value hasn't affected dev salary budgets much
- contravariant 8y ago>also helps that a lot of business expenses, such as hardware, are USD, so GBP losing value hasn't affected dev salary budgets much I don't quite understand, wouldn't a falling GBP make expenses higher?
- richardwhiuk 8y agoIf you are paid in USD, and expenses are in USD, then the GBP salary budget looks better.
- guitarbill 8y agoRight, a lot of multi-national budgets are USD, so even if you aren't directly "paid in USD", that's what the beancounters see. And of course, you can always simply pass on the price increase to the customer, e.g. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/10/24/microsoft_price_rises/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/10/24/microsoft_price_ris...
- Lio 8y ago> ....and while 6 of them left after Brexit (including me), I know a few people who are still on the fence. Life has largely gone on as normal, Brexit hasn't happened yet, so it's too early to say if life will go on as normal or not.
- topbanana 8y agoInaccurate title It's a list of the preparations that companies are making.
- boombust 8y agoMost of that list is about relocating operations/funds outside the UK or cancelling plans to move them to the UK, and the title reflects that.
- johneth 8y agoThis is a bit pedantic, I know, but you mean the UK, not England. It's the UK that's leaving the EU, not just England.
- smackay 8y agoThat kind of depends on how the political process plays out north of the border where 65% (or thereabouts) of the population voted to remain within the EU.
- nmeofthestate 8y agoSpeaking as someone who wants Scoland to become independent and join the EU, at this point it seems clear that the UK is leaving the EU (or - very small possibility - the UK is not leaving the EU).
- hrnnnnnn 8y agoCan't remember the percentage, but I do remember that every single polling area in Scotland voted remain.
- coldtea 8y agoThat's because they a) voted based on their rivalry with the English, b) think they'll do better as a tiny independent country within an EU where the big dogs do whatever they please (or, rather, a single big dog with its satellites, even France plays by their agenda).
- nmeofthestate 8y agoUtter rubbish.
- coldtea 8y agoWell, that's not an argument. Do you disagree with the first, or the second argument? Because both have had lots of corroborating evidence (including centuries of history and a whole recent-ish referendum to split Scotland into its own state for the first, and tons of scholarly debate and criticism against German control of EU policies and ECB in the NYT, Guardian, Economist, etc).
- katong 8y agoSo, mostly banking and insurance companies then. Is this really such a big deal?
- wetpaws 8y agoOnly if you don't use banks or insurances.
- pavlov 8y agoThe UK economy is disproportionately based on global finance, so it's a bigger deal than it might be somewhere else.
- ekianjo 8y agoThere is more than 50 companies in the UK. what should be news is companies that are not moving at all and staying in the UK during the storm.
- guitarbill 8y agoIt's cherry-picked, although I'm sure some more companies are thinking along these lines, but aren't as vocal. A list of big companies that have committed to staying would genuinely be useful. I doubt you'll find many, since saying something like that before there's a clear deal is a bit irresponsible, like a blank cheque.
- nicoburns 8y agoFinancial services is a huge part of the uk economy, so banks are quite a big deal.
- dalore 8y agoWell considering that's one of UK biggest sectors, then yes it is.
- ekianjo 8y agoMost companies are well known to be super short sighted, especially large ones. If it makes sense to get out of the UK to make the next quarter targets they will do it. Not surprising one bit.
- bkor 8y agoMoving countries is not that easy though. Leaving the EU means loads of additional paperwork vs now. You need someone who understands and is legally responsible for VAT. You didn't need that before. You need to know how to fill out all kinds of custom forms. There used to be a large amount of custom agents for that, you don't have them in the amount you need because they weren't needed for decades. Loads of companies won't know what to fill out. BBC went to the Swiss border to transport an exhaust from Switzerland to UK via Germany. Although this has required loads of documentation for many years the custom agent in Switzerland mentioned there's problems with the documentation in about 20% of the cases. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hWQ0T10v6Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hWQ0T10v6Y. The terminals/crossings aren't designed for that! There's not enough space for 20% of the trucks to wait an additional 2 hours.
- peteri 8y agoIt's not that hard though, in the past when working for folks importing from China it wasn't too hard to do. Most of the work was picking a commodity code for your imports/exports but you would have been doing that anyway for Intrastat reporting. For direct to consumer sellers above the VAT thresholds (€35,000 or €100,000) the new regime will arguably be simpler as they no longer need to register in each market but can register with a single authority. I suspect the Irish VAT office is about to get a lot busier.
- bkor 8y agoYou only took one bit and responded with a "it's not that hard". Please explain in detail to all the things I mentioned, not just one. Regarding your experience: it's unrelated. I mentioned loads of businesses didn't have to deal with this for decades. They're not known, didn't apply to be registered, don't know what to do, etc.
- hudo 8y agoAny known list about migration of tech jobs from London, what EU cities will now be more interesting for software engineers? Im still in Dublin, but on lookout for some other city/country because of crazy prices in Ireland (rents going up much faster than salaries), and stability (not sure how will Ireland handle Brexit since it depends on UK for lot of import/exports).
- smackay 8y agoThis is just anec-data but from a friend who has spent a lot of time in London this year. It appears that the EU nationals are leaving in droves. As a result many IT departments are becoming seriously understaffed. So there may be a boom in jobs for UK nationals or the companies may be forced to go where the employees are and move to an EU country instead.
- rezeroed 8y agoHere's anec-data from someone who lives in London, I know EU nationals who have always complained about the UK, and even they are not leaving.
- alecco 8y ago> It appears that the EU nationals are leaving in droves EU nationals in low-skilled jobs left in droves. UK is very lenient to give visas to skilled immigrants of any country in the world.
- m_t 8y agoDoesn't mean that someone who was living somewhere will suddenly fancy having a visa attached to their head.
- guitarbill 8y ago> UK is very lenient to give visas to skilled immigrants of any country in the world. That doesn't seem quite right. Getting a visa isn't harder than Australia or the US, but they don't just hand them out willy nilly. I know a few Americans in the UK who find it very hard to even change jobs. Again, that's always a risk until you get permanent residence, but it's hardly lenient.
- keiferski 8y agoCorrect me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the financial industry the primary reason London has become extremely unaffordable for normal people? Is it possible that the negative economic effects of Brexit will have positive cultural ones, by lowering prices and allowing for more non-financial workers to live there?
- dijit 8y agoIt's not the primary reason, but it's a factor. Low interest mortgages push up what people can afford, which contributes too. But the housing crisis is fuelled almost entirely by investors, and seemingly many of those are foreign. They buy property in London because it's a relatively safe investment, recently it's been very high yield as the supply is nowhere near reaching the demand.
- jerven 8y agoAnd as well as just not building enough! If you add more people to a city, but don't add more housing or fast commute then prices will go up. Basic lack of supply and rising demand...
- Ensorceled 8y agoBuilding enough is impossible with enough speculation. In Vancouver, the city would plan for 200 new condo units and see 100+ of those units get snapped up by real estate speculators and left empty.
- Jaruzel 8y agoThe home counties are stuffed to the gills with housing already. The right answer is better high-speed commuting services (not HS2 though; that route doesn't help anyone). We need fast train services to places in the UK where the population is quite low. Then incentives to get business to set up shop there. Once the jobs are there, the people will follow. There is 20 times the amount of people in London, than there is in the northern counties (per sq mile) - we need to stop cramming everyone into the South East.
- jonathanstrange 8y agoIt's sad that the discussion of Brexit and EU-related matters in general always revolve around perceived economic issues. Sure, a healthy economy is important for everyone, but the long-term goals of EU have always been to create a unity of countries with largely shared values to prevent future wars (incl. trade wars and cold wars) and to increase collaboration in all cultural, scientific and social matters. To grow together instead of alienating more and more until a new war breaks out, like it always happened in Europe's past in almost every century. And now it's all about the money...
- diazon 8y agoMoney is very important to people who don't have much money. If you are a plumber whose wages are going down and down because the market is being flooded with cheaper Eastern Europeans, you know who to blame. Of course I don't expect HN users who are sitting on a pile of money in SF or London to ever understand this.
- bnt 8y agoOr are Brit plumbers simply overvalued and Eastern Europeans represent the true value of plumbing? I’m not sure if I should put a /s here or if I actually believe this.
- tinco 8y agoThat Brit plumbers are more expensive does not mean they are overvalued. It means they are not cost effective, and that means they'll get less jobs. You can only be overvalued if anyone is actually paying you for your job. The reason that they're expensive is that cost of living is too high. So the real question to ask is, do British plumbers expect a too high quality of life?
- johnchristopher 8y agoAnything has to be overvalued because there wouldn't be benefits then.
- rezeroed 8y agoEdwin Hayward is a mega-remainer, I've seen him on social media, so the chance of this being a balanced piece is zero to none. Presumably seapunk is also. I work in a company that is largely foreign, and no one has left because of brexit. This is project fear.
- oblio 8y agoThe thing is, Brexit hasn't even happened yet.
- piokuc 8y agoIt's just a bunch of facts on a specific subject: "companies leaving UK because of Brexit". How would you "balance" a list of facts to make you happier and avoid what you call "project fear"?
- rezeroed 8y agoCan't believe you actually asked that. How about a list of the opposite?
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- swarnie_ 8y agoI wouldn't be shocked to see a more favorable tax environment set up after Brexit to encourage financial firms to stay in London. Its pretty important they do as financials make up a huge chunk of the economy.
- laurent123456 8y agoThey already plan to cut corporation tax down to 17% and possibly further later on.
- sfcguyus 8y agoI suppose it can mean more opportunity to pick up slack.
- mscasts 8y agoHonestly, who cares? Even if my country suffered economically from leaving the EU I would still vote for leaving. I don't think the UK will suffer economically, at least not more than many countries that still is in the union but just have a bad economy in general.
- cryptos 8y agoIt sad for the UK, but maybe it can at least serve as a warning example to what populism leads.
- dustinmoris 8y agoI am a European living in the UK and personally I have not even thought for a split second to leave the country because of the referendum. Doesn't matter to which British person I speak to, they are all extremely welcoming and polite. I have never felt unwelcome (even though I have Polish heritage and apparently Polish people are not welcome in the UK - at least if I believe the mainstream news). It's not a very popular opinion, but given that my wife has an ethnic background and we travelled to many other European countries the only racism we faced was outside the UK. Also I really don't like how everything is measured by GDP. Yes, economic growth is important, but that is just a number and doesn't express how much ordinary people benefit from that growth. I think we should start measuring how well a country does by quality of life. What is it good for if banks and financial institutions yield big profits year on year and meanwhile ordinary people are being pushed to the borders of the city, can't get a doctor's appointment for weeks, are stuck in overcrowded public transport for hours every day and struggle to get a spot in a nearby school for their children. The main issue with free movement in the EU is that it is easy to move 1 million people across a border in one year, but it is a lot more difficult for a country to build the necessary infrastructure (train lines, schools, hospitals, etc.) to comfortably accommodate an influx of migrants year for year. It only makes sense for each European country to be able to have some control of the numbers. Integration is as important as immigration and integration requires additional resources which a country has to have available. I am not saying that this is the main problem with migration, but there is so many factors that get completely ignored in this debate that I am simply sick of reading news articles which only focus on a very narrow narrative to push their own political agenda. Brexit is a complex issue and only time will really show if it was good or bad for the UK and the people living here.
- pjc50 8y agoHow is your application for indefinite leave to remain coming along? Do you rent or own your home?
- mrtksn 8y agoThe UK for me was also the least racist environment in Europe, agree. Never felt unwelcome and people genuinely seem to be polite and in good faith. That said, I don't enjoy my right in the UK being a negotiation chip and that my future business or employment in the UK will no longer be based on my qualifications but on my paperwork I have. It's quite likely that maybe sometime in 2024 when I apply for a position in a company I would not be considered because they wouldn't like to deal with visas and work permits. Even if I happen to be hired, what happens when I get old or economy stumbles and I need the benefits that native employees enjoy? All these things are now under negotiation and may or may not be provided depending on the deals the politicians negotiate. I don't like the non-meritocratic system. Maybe it's better to live somewhere where I have equal rights with the locals and sell services to the UK and pay visits to this lovely country. The nicest thing about unregulated professions like those in IT is that you can work anywhere in the world.
- user5994461 8y agoA lot of garbage in this list, including company extending with no relation to Brexit and regular asset moves. Just remind me when I saw my company listed in a major newspapers for leaving the UK, even though we were not. Journalists would say anything to get some clicks.
- chengiz 8y agoYeah that was my first thought. If they were honest they would compare the numbers from a different year before Brexit. For every 10 companies leaving in 2018 if only one did in 2014, then sure you can say Brexit is causing a large outflux.