5 ms·

George RR Martin: ‘When I began GoT I thought it might be a short story’

68 points by ohjeez 8y ago

kartan 8y ago
> When I began, I didn’t know what the hell I had. I thought it might be a short story; it was just this chapter, where they find these direwolf pups. Then I started exploring these families and the world started coming alive Talking about the difficulties of estimation. At least he managed to publish a few books. Imagine that he waited to publish anything until the complete work is finished. Sounds familiar?
- bossx 8y ago
  Lean writing.. MVP..
- scoggs 8y ago
  > At least he managed to publish a few books. Beyond that he released a number of them in rapid succession. For a while there the ideas must have just been coming as quickly as he could jot them down. Then, for those who are in the know, he quickly ran into an issue where continuing the plot threads he had setup all came to a confluence point where decisions needed to be made before he was prepared to do so. From what I understand extensive revisionary work was done. Entire sections and chapters of the story were rewritten to accommodate for the new trajectory for the adjusted plot lines of various involved characters. And, this is my least positive memory of all of this, he actually brought in some outside help to ensure he was capable of undoing what has been dubbed as the "Meereenese_Knot": https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Meereenese_Knot https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Meereenese_Knot For a less "as far as my terrible memory can remember" version of what I explained above here is a quote: > "The first three novels each came out within two years of each other, in 1996, 1998, and 2000 respectively. However, it took another eleven years for Martin to write the fourth and fifth books, A Feast for Crows (2005) and A Dance with Dragons (2011). Partially, this was because A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons were originally one novel, which grew so long that author George R.R. Martin later decided to split it up into two books (the events in both happen concurrently but follow separate characters)." Three novels from 1996 to 2000. Another 11 years for the next two. Here we are, patiently waiting, for the 6th book of the series, "A Dream of Spring". Of course the majority of people loudly banging their shields complaining about Martin's lack of shipping have probably never undertaken the task of writing a feature-length novel before. I'm sure an even more comical percentage of those have actually released a multi-art series with anywhere near the outrageous amount of characters, named placed, and other in-world lore or detail that make G.R.R.M.'s work feel so "real" and "lived-in". I know I've never sat there while reading only to think, "Oh, there's this many more pages before it's done? This is such a boring slog." Entertainment is a word that I feel falls short of describing the type of enjoyment I get out of the Game of Thrones series.
empath75 8y ago
I know it’s not really the done thing but I wonder if he’d be happier if he just hired a team of writers to finish out the series for him based on his outline.
- jacobush 8y ago
  He has two fans help him out.
  - actuator 8y ago
    I think that was just for 'The World of Ice and Fire'
- actuator 8y ago
  If he is not able to finish, I think Joe Abercrombie would be the perfect candidate. Though since GRRM has most of the plot figured out already, I wonder if Joe would be interested.
mrfusion 8y ago
I always wondered why there is so little magic in the stories universe? Why do white walkers have acceess to magic but no one else?
- amelius 8y ago
  Because it's just too simple an instrument to use, and viewers instinctively know it.
  - PurpleRamen 8y ago
    Isn't that like saying science is just too simple of an instrument? Or Money? Or personal ability? Or power to command people to do what you demand? It's not as if magic has no rules, nor limit. It's depends on what the write makes with it, like with every other ressource and plot-tool.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - pinusc 8y ago
      While magic and its limits are indeed defined by the author, the problem with fantasy worlds with widely available magic is that it usually ends up permeating the universe and being at the center of the story. Think of Harry Potter or LOTR or even going back in history to the tales of King Arthur. Game of Thrones is not a fantasy tale as much as a human one. George Martin chose to make the story about people and the struggle for power and ideals and everything else that is human. And even with magic being barely a presence, it still is a force able to radically influence the game - but not much more than money, or armies, or human ability, which are still powerful enough to be relevant. I think if magic was more widely available, it would either have needed to be trivial, not powerful magic, or these other resources would have suffered.
- nerdponx 8y ago
  That's part of what is so interesting about the series. The world is subtly magical, but its inhabitants don't really recognize it and it doesn't really enter their daily lives. That said, it also does make possible some "cheap shot" plot devices like a certain important someone getting assassinated by a certain priestess in an unlikely way. (Details elided to avoid spoilers).
wild_preference 8y ago
GoT is a good example of people being irrationally self-entitled. Every time the subject comes up on Reddit, there are people who are genuinely mad at the guy like he wronged them for taking so long to end-cap the series. It reminds me of the subset of my forum users who get out their pitchforks just because I, the creator, haven't been around for a while, like I owe them yet more of my free time. Or as if they've paid me money and I'm squandering it.
- jl6 8y ago
  Not that it excuses bad behaviour of fans, but I think there are a lot of people genuinely concerned that GRRM is going to die before he finishes it. They’ve seen it happen before with the Wheel of Time series.
  - gnulinux 8y ago
    I have a feeling GRRM is concerned about dying a little more than his fans are concerned of him dying... If there is a legitimate reason to believe he'll die (age, obesity, unhealthiness etc) then maybe he doesn't even want to finish the series and enjoy his last years of life doing something else?
- amingilani 8y ago
  It's not that I hate him, but he's infuriatingly bad at meeting deadlines for books that have become an integral part of my identity. I'm not one of those redditors, but that's just because I have partaken in a thread like that yet. I was college when I read ASOIF, I was expecting the Winds of Winter to come out before I finished the others. It didn't. I read the Tales of Dunk and Egg to while the time expecting it to come out like he promised. It didn't. ASOIAF is my favorite storyline ever. I adopted a puppy yesterday and named him Aegon after Aegon the Unlucky. The fifth Aegon — Maester Aemon's younger brother. It's because I was waiting on ASOIAF that I spent a little over two years reading 21 volumes of Wild Cards (26 now), and every year he kept missing his deadlines. It's as if when you've got your money in your hand, and the pizza guy says the restaurant will open in a few mins, but it doesn't open for weeks, and he mixes coke in his pizza and you're addicted. I don't think I can explain my frustration to you in mere words on the internet, but it's so painful that I've stopped reading his blog or thinking about it. One day it'll come out, but until that day I won't be duped by this man's false deadlines.
victor106 8y ago
From the article "I was going to sleep thinking of Aegon and Jaehaerys and waking up thinking of them and I couldn’t wait to get the typewriter." Find it surprising that he uses a typewriter. never heard of writers using typewriters in this day and age.
- jefft255 8y ago
  I remember reading that he still uses a DOS computer to write his novel.
  - herpes 8y ago
    Yes, he uses WordStar 4.0. https://slate.com/technology/2014/05/george-r-r-martin-writes-on-dos-based-wordstar-4-0-software-from-the-1980s.html https://slate.com/technology/2014/05/george-r-r-martin-write...

68 points by ohjeez 8y ago

> When I began, I didn’t know what the hell I had. I thought it might be a short story; it was just this chapter, where they find these direwolf pups. Then I started exploring these families and the world started coming alive Talking about the difficulties of estimation. At least he managed to publish a few books. Imagine that he waited to publish anything until the complete work is finished. Sounds familiar?

bossx 8y ago
Lean writing.. MVP..
scoggs 8y ago
> At least he managed to publish a few books. Beyond that he released a number of them in rapid succession. For a while there the ideas must have just been coming as quickly as he could jot them down. Then, for those who are in the know, he quickly ran into an issue where continuing the plot threads he had setup all came to a confluence point where decisions needed to be made before he was prepared to do so. From what I understand extensive revisionary work was done. Entire sections and chapters of the story were rewritten to accommodate for the new trajectory for the adjusted plot lines of various involved characters. And, this is my least positive memory of all of this, he actually brought in some outside help to ensure he was capable of undoing what has been dubbed as the "Meereenese_Knot": https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Meereenese_Knot https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Meereenese_Knot For a less "as far as my terrible memory can remember" version of what I explained above here is a quote: > "The first three novels each came out within two years of each other, in 1996, 1998, and 2000 respectively. However, it took another eleven years for Martin to write the fourth and fifth books, A Feast for Crows (2005) and A Dance with Dragons (2011). Partially, this was because A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons were originally one novel, which grew so long that author George R.R. Martin later decided to split it up into two books (the events in both happen concurrently but follow separate characters)." Three novels from 1996 to 2000. Another 11 years for the next two. Here we are, patiently waiting, for the 6th book of the series, "A Dream of Spring". Of course the majority of people loudly banging their shields complaining about Martin's lack of shipping have probably never undertaken the task of writing a feature-length novel before. I'm sure an even more comical percentage of those have actually released a multi-art series with anywhere near the outrageous amount of characters, named placed, and other in-world lore or detail that make G.R.R.M.'s work feel so "real" and "lived-in". I know I've never sat there while reading only to think, "Oh, there's this many more pages before it's done? This is such a boring slog." Entertainment is a word that I feel falls short of describing the type of enjoyment I get out of the Game of Thrones series.

empath75 8y ago

I know it’s not really the done thing but I wonder if he’d be happier if he just hired a team of writers to finish out the series for him based on his outline.

jacobush 8y ago
He has two fans help him out.
- actuator 8y ago
  I think that was just for 'The World of Ice and Fire'
actuator 8y ago
If he is not able to finish, I think Joe Abercrombie would be the perfect candidate. Though since GRRM has most of the plot figured out already, I wonder if Joe would be interested.

mrfusion 8y ago

I always wondered why there is so little magic in the stories universe? Why do white walkers have acceess to magic but no one else?

amelius 8y ago
Because it's just too simple an instrument to use, and viewers instinctively know it.
- PurpleRamen 8y ago
  Isn't that like saying science is just too simple of an instrument? Or Money? Or personal ability? Or power to command people to do what you demand? It's not as if magic has no rules, nor limit. It's depends on what the write makes with it, like with every other ressource and plot-tool.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - pinusc 8y ago
    While magic and its limits are indeed defined by the author, the problem with fantasy worlds with widely available magic is that it usually ends up permeating the universe and being at the center of the story. Think of Harry Potter or LOTR or even going back in history to the tales of King Arthur. Game of Thrones is not a fantasy tale as much as a human one. George Martin chose to make the story about people and the struggle for power and ideals and everything else that is human. And even with magic being barely a presence, it still is a force able to radically influence the game - but not much more than money, or armies, or human ability, which are still powerful enough to be relevant. I think if magic was more widely available, it would either have needed to be trivial, not powerful magic, or these other resources would have suffered.
nerdponx 8y ago
That's part of what is so interesting about the series. The world is subtly magical, but its inhabitants don't really recognize it and it doesn't really enter their daily lives. That said, it also does make possible some "cheap shot" plot devices like a certain important someone getting assassinated by a certain priestess in an unlikely way. (Details elided to avoid spoilers).

wild_preference 8y ago

GoT is a good example of people being irrationally self-entitled. Every time the subject comes up on Reddit, there are people who are genuinely mad at the guy like he wronged them for taking so long to end-cap the series. It reminds me of the subset of my forum users who get out their pitchforks just because I, the creator, haven't been around for a while, like I owe them yet more of my free time. Or as if they've paid me money and I'm squandering it.

jl6 8y ago
Not that it excuses bad behaviour of fans, but I think there are a lot of people genuinely concerned that GRRM is going to die before he finishes it. They’ve seen it happen before with the Wheel of Time series.
- gnulinux 8y ago
  I have a feeling GRRM is concerned about dying a little more than his fans are concerned of him dying... If there is a legitimate reason to believe he'll die (age, obesity, unhealthiness etc) then maybe he doesn't even want to finish the series and enjoy his last years of life doing something else?
amingilani 8y ago
It's not that I hate him, but he's infuriatingly bad at meeting deadlines for books that have become an integral part of my identity. I'm not one of those redditors, but that's just because I have partaken in a thread like that yet. I was college when I read ASOIF, I was expecting the Winds of Winter to come out before I finished the others. It didn't. I read the Tales of Dunk and Egg to while the time expecting it to come out like he promised. It didn't. ASOIAF is my favorite storyline ever. I adopted a puppy yesterday and named him Aegon after Aegon the Unlucky. The fifth Aegon — Maester Aemon's younger brother. It's because I was waiting on ASOIAF that I spent a little over two years reading 21 volumes of Wild Cards (26 now), and every year he kept missing his deadlines. It's as if when you've got your money in your hand, and the pizza guy says the restaurant will open in a few mins, but it doesn't open for weeks, and he mixes coke in his pizza and you're addicted. I don't think I can explain my frustration to you in mere words on the internet, but it's so painful that I've stopped reading his blog or thinking about it. One day it'll come out, but until that day I won't be duped by this man's false deadlines.

victor106 8y ago

From the article "I was going to sleep thinking of Aegon and Jaehaerys and waking up thinking of them and I couldn’t wait to get the typewriter." Find it surprising that he uses a typewriter. never heard of writers using typewriters in this day and age.

jefft255 8y ago
I remember reading that he still uses a DOS computer to write his novel.
- herpes 8y ago
  Yes, he uses WordStar 4.0. https://slate.com/technology/2014/05/george-r-r-martin-writes-on-dos-based-wordstar-4-0-software-from-the-1980s.html https://slate.com/technology/2014/05/george-r-r-martin-write...