8 ms·

The years I spent in New Zealand painted a vivid picture of a society of doers. I think there’s something to the idea that this comes in part from being a landm

The years I spent in New Zealand painted a vivid picture of a society of doers. I think there’s something to the idea that this comes in part from being a landmass the size of Colorado, with not much more than 4 million people, with the freedom and requirements to maintain the infrastructure of being a sovereign nation. Seeing a NZ rocket launch condures an image of a small group of doers dreaming big. Way to go NZ!

umichguy 8y ago
Sweet as!
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
curuinor 8y ago
Wait, isn't Rocket Lab an american company, and they're just locating the rocket in NZ? Founders were Kiwis but HQ is in California...
- cheyne_nz 8y ago
  Mission Control was in Auckland.They used to be an NZ company but incorporated in the US to get a launch license as it was apparently much easier as a US company. Most of their work and staff is still in NZ
  - starik36 8y ago
    As mentioned yesterday in the live cast, design and manufacturing is happening in Huntington Beach, California, then it is shipped to New Zealand.
    - apendleton 8y ago
      Engines and avionics, but the rocket bodies, fairings, etc., are made in NZ and final assembly is there. In this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj9BncsgvuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj9BncsgvuQ the CEO talks about how that has been advantageous because apparently there's a large talent pool in carbon composite fabrication in NZ, and that while there are eventually plans to also launch from the US, when they do they'll still be making bodies in NZ and shipping them, and doing final assembly with US-made engines on the US side for those launches.
      - EdwardDiego 8y ago
        > apparently there's a large talent pool in carbon composite fabrication in NZ Wonder how much of that was from building faster yachts for Team New Zealand?
        dredds 8y ago
        Yep, the America's Cup success lead to recognition of NZ's somewhat burgeoning super-yacht industry, which in turn fed back more talented craftsman, fabricators, designers.
      - toomanybeersies 8y ago
        Speaking of carbon composite fabrication talent in NZ, I remember at an airshow in NZ a few years ago there was a company making a helicopter with an entirely composite airframe. Not sure what ended up happening to it, but it was interesting to see such cutting edge technology coming coming out of such a small company with minimal funding. John Britten's superbike in the 1990s was also a pioneer for all sorts of composite manufacturing Us Kiwis have always been good at that kind of thing though. There's actually a very healthy aviation technology and manufacturing industry here, especially for such a small country.
    - cheyne_nz 8y ago
      Was just listening to an interview with Peter Beck. He clarifies the US-NZ question. Short answer is it is both, I had my proportions off with being more (3/4) American now. It's been American company since 2012. The US factory is 3 times larger than the NZ factory and makes stuff we're can't do here. https://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20181112-0826-rocket_lab_sends_first_commercial_rocket_into_space-128.mp3 https://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20181112-0826-rocket_l...
- greglindahl 8y ago
  The rocket uses a fair amount of ITAR-restricted technology, which means that they needed a pretty robust US-based organization and engine manufacturing. The company also sold a bunch of suborbital rocket launches to the US government before they raised money to build an orbital rocket. And the money mostly came from US-based VCs. All of these details feed into the company HQ being in the US, but a majority of their employees appear to be in NZ.
  - wbl 8y ago
    ITAR restricts US parts. It does not apply to non US technology sources although Wassenar and MTCR are multilateral. It would be possible to make rockets with no ITAR covered parts. After all that's what Russia France and China have.
    - sandworm101 8y ago
      Russian and Chinese rockets are definitely covered by ITAR. ITAR isn't a trade barrier or patent protection. It doesn't care about national origin. It applies to all export of relevant technologies from the US. So if you imported a Russian rocket into the US, its further export would be a violation of ITAR rules regardless of where that rocket first came from.
      - wbl 8y ago
        Right, but if you are importing a Russian rocket to somewhere not US, you don't have to worry.
- wolf550e 8y ago
  It's more of a New Zealand company with enough presence in the US to be legal for ITAR purposes.
  - adventured 8y ago
    How do you get to that? Their rockets are designed and manufactured in the US. Their money has largely been from the US. They're incorporated in the US. They're using US technology and engineering. That's a long ways from the minimal contribution you're implying.
    - wolf550e 8y ago
      see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Lab https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Lab The manufacturing is in New Zealand. I don't know about design, but I understood that design is also done in New Zealand. They received money from the US and they cooperated with NASA, and for that they needed to have facilities in the US, but I don't know how much. They now opened a second launch facility in the US, but that is not a large operation compared to design, manufacturing and testing the rockets. Articles from the past make it sound like a New Zealand company with a corporate structure that is a legal fiction to be legal in the US. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11301045 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&... https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/29/kiwi_company_rocket_lab_cheap_satellites/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/29/kiwi_company_rocket...
      - rory096 8y ago
        Engines and avionics are manufactured in Huntington Beach. https://everydayastronaut.com/inside-rocketlab/ https://everydayastronaut.com/inside-rocketlab/
- djsumdog 8y ago
  Most of them work out by the Auckland airport. A really good friend of mine works there as an engineer. He works some absolutely insane hours. I couldn't do it personally, but they all really believe in rockets and they've had some amazing success.
- shirro 8y ago
  It is what US client states have to do to succeed. The US, sensibly, put its own interests first and dictates US content limits and export controls but the closest allies give up the most in the relationship. Rocket Lab has found a really sensible compromise that satisfies US hegemony and still allows high tech industry development in NZ. I am sure countries like the UK, Australia and Canada are watching. Is a Kiwi rocket company that is forced to be half based in the US to satisfy US legislation any more American than an American rocket company that uses Russian built engines and other components sourced from Europe? The flag waving denies the reality that space is a global industry.
secfirstmd 8y ago
I really wish Ireland could embrace the same attitude of NZ.
unknown_apostle 8y ago
So why did you leave? (Asking because I have an opportunity to move there.)
- djsumdog 8y ago
  You should totally do it, and go to Wellington. It's the best city :-P I lived there for three years and miss it. I might try to get another work visa, either to go back to Welly or Melbourne.
  - unknown_apostle 8y ago
    So same question: why did you go away, or how did you loose your work visa? For me it's a cool job in Auckland. What worries us is the distance and the logistics of bringing over our entire family... I can see myself working there, bringing over the family, and then loosing my job e.g. because of some recession and not find another job in the grace period.
    - djsumdog 8y ago
      I started with a Holiday Work visa and later applied for and got a regular work visa (was working full time in tech, so they're easy to get). eh, I left for some complicated personal reasons. I wrote a post about it if you're interested: https://khanism.org/perspective/minimalism/ https://khanism.org/perspective/minimalism/ edit: my visa was still good though; could have easily paid to get my work to residence or full residence visas. Kinda wish I had. :-P
      - unknown_apostle 8y ago
        Thx best of luck to you :-)
    - JaggedNZ 8y ago
      If you are in IT then I would not worry to much about the job issue to much past the first job, there is still plenty of demand for skilled IT workers despite the record net migration of the last few years. However, make sure you are comfortable with housing prices / rent, particularly in the Auckland area.
tootahe45 8y ago
It's unfortunate that the doers leave NZ as soon as possible to do stuff elsewhere most of the time.

umichguy 8y ago

Sweet as!

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

curuinor 8y ago

Wait, isn't Rocket Lab an american company, and they're just locating the rocket in NZ? Founders were Kiwis but HQ is in California...

cheyne_nz 8y ago
Mission Control was in Auckland.They used to be an NZ company but incorporated in the US to get a launch license as it was apparently much easier as a US company. Most of their work and staff is still in NZ
- starik36 8y ago
  As mentioned yesterday in the live cast, design and manufacturing is happening in Huntington Beach, California, then it is shipped to New Zealand.
  - apendleton 8y ago
    Engines and avionics, but the rocket bodies, fairings, etc., are made in NZ and final assembly is there. In this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj9BncsgvuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj9BncsgvuQ the CEO talks about how that has been advantageous because apparently there's a large talent pool in carbon composite fabrication in NZ, and that while there are eventually plans to also launch from the US, when they do they'll still be making bodies in NZ and shipping them, and doing final assembly with US-made engines on the US side for those launches.
    - EdwardDiego 8y ago
      > apparently there's a large talent pool in carbon composite fabrication in NZ Wonder how much of that was from building faster yachts for Team New Zealand?
      - dredds 8y ago
        Yep, the America's Cup success lead to recognition of NZ's somewhat burgeoning super-yacht industry, which in turn fed back more talented craftsman, fabricators, designers.
    - toomanybeersies 8y ago
      Speaking of carbon composite fabrication talent in NZ, I remember at an airshow in NZ a few years ago there was a company making a helicopter with an entirely composite airframe. Not sure what ended up happening to it, but it was interesting to see such cutting edge technology coming coming out of such a small company with minimal funding. John Britten's superbike in the 1990s was also a pioneer for all sorts of composite manufacturing Us Kiwis have always been good at that kind of thing though. There's actually a very healthy aviation technology and manufacturing industry here, especially for such a small country.
  - cheyne_nz 8y ago
    Was just listening to an interview with Peter Beck. He clarifies the US-NZ question. Short answer is it is both, I had my proportions off with being more (3/4) American now. It's been American company since 2012. The US factory is 3 times larger than the NZ factory and makes stuff we're can't do here. https://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20181112-0826-rocket_lab_sends_first_commercial_rocket_into_space-128.mp3 https://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20181112-0826-rocket_l...
greglindahl 8y ago
The rocket uses a fair amount of ITAR-restricted technology, which means that they needed a pretty robust US-based organization and engine manufacturing. The company also sold a bunch of suborbital rocket launches to the US government before they raised money to build an orbital rocket. And the money mostly came from US-based VCs. All of these details feed into the company HQ being in the US, but a majority of their employees appear to be in NZ.
- wbl 8y ago
  ITAR restricts US parts. It does not apply to non US technology sources although Wassenar and MTCR are multilateral. It would be possible to make rockets with no ITAR covered parts. After all that's what Russia France and China have.
  - sandworm101 8y ago
    Russian and Chinese rockets are definitely covered by ITAR. ITAR isn't a trade barrier or patent protection. It doesn't care about national origin. It applies to all export of relevant technologies from the US. So if you imported a Russian rocket into the US, its further export would be a violation of ITAR rules regardless of where that rocket first came from.
    - wbl 8y ago
      Right, but if you are importing a Russian rocket to somewhere not US, you don't have to worry.
wolf550e 8y ago
It's more of a New Zealand company with enough presence in the US to be legal for ITAR purposes.
- adventured 8y ago
  How do you get to that? Their rockets are designed and manufactured in the US. Their money has largely been from the US. They're incorporated in the US. They're using US technology and engineering. That's a long ways from the minimal contribution you're implying.
  - wolf550e 8y ago
    see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Lab https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Lab The manufacturing is in New Zealand. I don't know about design, but I understood that design is also done in New Zealand. They received money from the US and they cooperated with NASA, and for that they needed to have facilities in the US, but I don't know how much. They now opened a second launch facility in the US, but that is not a large operation compared to design, manufacturing and testing the rockets. Articles from the past make it sound like a New Zealand company with a corporate structure that is a legal fiction to be legal in the US. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11301045 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&... https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/29/kiwi_company_rocket_lab_cheap_satellites/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/29/kiwi_company_rocket...
    - rory096 8y ago
      Engines and avionics are manufactured in Huntington Beach. https://everydayastronaut.com/inside-rocketlab/ https://everydayastronaut.com/inside-rocketlab/
djsumdog 8y ago
Most of them work out by the Auckland airport. A really good friend of mine works there as an engineer. He works some absolutely insane hours. I couldn't do it personally, but they all really believe in rockets and they've had some amazing success.
shirro 8y ago
It is what US client states have to do to succeed. The US, sensibly, put its own interests first and dictates US content limits and export controls but the closest allies give up the most in the relationship. Rocket Lab has found a really sensible compromise that satisfies US hegemony and still allows high tech industry development in NZ. I am sure countries like the UK, Australia and Canada are watching. Is a Kiwi rocket company that is forced to be half based in the US to satisfy US legislation any more American than an American rocket company that uses Russian built engines and other components sourced from Europe? The flag waving denies the reality that space is a global industry.

secfirstmd 8y ago

I really wish Ireland could embrace the same attitude of NZ.

unknown_apostle 8y ago

So why did you leave? (Asking because I have an opportunity to move there.)

djsumdog 8y ago
You should totally do it, and go to Wellington. It's the best city :-P I lived there for three years and miss it. I might try to get another work visa, either to go back to Welly or Melbourne.
- unknown_apostle 8y ago
  So same question: why did you go away, or how did you loose your work visa? For me it's a cool job in Auckland. What worries us is the distance and the logistics of bringing over our entire family... I can see myself working there, bringing over the family, and then loosing my job e.g. because of some recession and not find another job in the grace period.
  - djsumdog 8y ago
    I started with a Holiday Work visa and later applied for and got a regular work visa (was working full time in tech, so they're easy to get). eh, I left for some complicated personal reasons. I wrote a post about it if you're interested: https://khanism.org/perspective/minimalism/ https://khanism.org/perspective/minimalism/ edit: my visa was still good though; could have easily paid to get my work to residence or full residence visas. Kinda wish I had. :-P
    - unknown_apostle 8y ago
      Thx best of luck to you :-)
  - JaggedNZ 8y ago
    If you are in IT then I would not worry to much about the job issue to much past the first job, there is still plenty of demand for skilled IT workers despite the record net migration of the last few years. However, make sure you are comfortable with housing prices / rent, particularly in the Auckland area.

tootahe45 8y ago

It's unfortunate that the doers leave NZ as soon as possible to do stuff elsewhere most of the time.