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Festivals I've been to will, say, require deposits of 100 peso increments and then the beers cost 80 pesos. And you can't get your money out. Even if you could

Festivals I've been to will, say, require deposits of 100 peso increments and then the beers cost 80 pesos. And you can't get your money out. Even if you could get your money back, you're still waiting at lines to recharge the bracelet. It's a joke. With cash, you just come prepared and withdraw at any ATM long before the festival. Bracelets didn't solve any problem except disconnect the money handling event from the purchasing event so that you lose track of it, like how microtransactions are never priced in actual currency.

addicted 8y ago
Why can’t you load the same amount of money on your bracelet before the festival as the cash you would be carrying? If that’s because the festival organizers don’t let you retrieve your money easily or without a cost, that’s an issue with the festival management and not with the idea of digital money. I’ve been to a festival which allowed us to withdraw money freely (I think they had some restrictions such as only 1 free withdrawal after the festival was over, and/or it had to be done within a week or so) but that allowed us to simply load in excess money so we never had to recharge. That worked really well for us.
- MereInterest 8y ago
  > If that’s because the festival organizers don’t let you retrieve your money easily or without a cost, that’s an issue with the festival management and not with the idea of digital money. The ability for poor implementations to exist is itself a strike against the general concept.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  I think my problem with this comes down to ‘why the fuck are you bothering me with this?!’. We have perfectly valid working payment systems (cash, debit/credit), and for some reason you’ve decided that your festivals proprietary payment system is better? Have to load money, have to retrieve money, and have zero insight into how much I’ve already spent without even more apps or interfaces.
  - ycombobreaker 8y ago
    To add to that: because we all know that both parties know a working money system exists, then the most likely explanation for "why" becomes "because it is profitable for the festival host." The festival goer is tight to be naturally skeptical of sny alternative payment system (smart wristbands, "credit" cards, tickets/tokens). Even if some transactions have extra friction such as ID checks for age-restricted purchases, the less intrusive solution is color coded "dumb paper" wristbands.
  - beefield 8y ago
    > why the fuck are you bothering me with this? Handling cash is a hassle in many ways: 1. It's slow. Obviously it is not slow in the best case when the customer throws in the exact change, but it is _really_ slow in the probably more typical case when the drunkard is at the counter and starts to dig into the pockets and find out if he has enough coins or when the seventh customer in the row wants to pay his ten cent lollipop with a hundred dollar bill and you run out of change. 2. It ties capital to keep sufficient amount of change in all of the booths. 3. It is difficult/expensive to manage securely and safely. You need to figure out how to stop personnel and other people stealing the money. Also your personnel likely feels more safe when they know that nobody can think that hey can come and try to steal money from you because you simply have none.
    - pnw_hazor 8y ago
      also known as f-the-customer.
    - thomasz 8y ago
      It's only slow because you are not used to paying with cash. Most payments are done with cash here, and the few people paying with cards cause small but noticeable delays. Counting cash is usually faster than handling a card reader, entering the PIN and whatnot. The odd drunkard or elderly customer is comparable to the odd technical problem, which usually takes longer to resolve.
      - MereInterest 8y ago
- gaius 8y ago
  not with the idea of digital money. If every single actual implementation of an idea is bad then maybe the idea wasn’t such a great one either. Contactless payments with a regular credit card are as far as this idea needed to go, everything else is either a gimmick or a rip-off attempt.

addicted 8y ago

Why can’t you load the same amount of money on your bracelet before the festival as the cash you would be carrying? If that’s because the festival organizers don’t let you retrieve your money easily or without a cost, that’s an issue with the festival management and not with the idea of digital money. I’ve been to a festival which allowed us to withdraw money freely (I think they had some restrictions such as only 1 free withdrawal after the festival was over, and/or it had to be done within a week or so) but that allowed us to simply load in excess money so we never had to recharge. That worked really well for us.

MereInterest 8y ago
> If that’s because the festival organizers don’t let you retrieve your money easily or without a cost, that’s an issue with the festival management and not with the idea of digital money. The ability for poor implementations to exist is itself a strike against the general concept.
Aeolun 8y ago
I think my problem with this comes down to ‘why the fuck are you bothering me with this?!’. We have perfectly valid working payment systems (cash, debit/credit), and for some reason you’ve decided that your festivals proprietary payment system is better? Have to load money, have to retrieve money, and have zero insight into how much I’ve already spent without even more apps or interfaces.
- ycombobreaker 8y ago
  To add to that: because we all know that both parties know a working money system exists, then the most likely explanation for "why" becomes "because it is profitable for the festival host." The festival goer is tight to be naturally skeptical of sny alternative payment system (smart wristbands, "credit" cards, tickets/tokens). Even if some transactions have extra friction such as ID checks for age-restricted purchases, the less intrusive solution is color coded "dumb paper" wristbands.
- beefield 8y ago
  > why the fuck are you bothering me with this? Handling cash is a hassle in many ways: 1. It's slow. Obviously it is not slow in the best case when the customer throws in the exact change, but it is _really_ slow in the probably more typical case when the drunkard is at the counter and starts to dig into the pockets and find out if he has enough coins or when the seventh customer in the row wants to pay his ten cent lollipop with a hundred dollar bill and you run out of change. 2. It ties capital to keep sufficient amount of change in all of the booths. 3. It is difficult/expensive to manage securely and safely. You need to figure out how to stop personnel and other people stealing the money. Also your personnel likely feels more safe when they know that nobody can think that hey can come and try to steal money from you because you simply have none.
  - pnw_hazor 8y ago
    also known as f-the-customer.
  - thomasz 8y ago
    It's only slow because you are not used to paying with cash. Most payments are done with cash here, and the few people paying with cards cause small but noticeable delays. Counting cash is usually faster than handling a card reader, entering the PIN and whatnot. The odd drunkard or elderly customer is comparable to the odd technical problem, which usually takes longer to resolve.
    - MereInterest 8y ago
gaius 8y ago
not with the idea of digital money. If every single actual implementation of an idea is bad then maybe the idea wasn’t such a great one either. Contactless payments with a regular credit card are as far as this idea needed to go, everything else is either a gimmick or a rip-off attempt.