10 ms·

Users complain that Apple is 'nickel and diming' them

ghaff 8y ago
As in the article my main gripe is the iCloud storage. As you buy more Apple devices your free storage allotment doesn’t scale up accordingly.
- oneplane 8y ago
  Well, the free storage is for your account, not your device, right? I suppose it would be nice if you get extra free monthly storage per device you use your account with. Maybe a model where the amount of devices you have simply multiplies the free storage baseline.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    Yes, it’s for your account. But as you add devices you want to back up it pretty much pushes you into a paid tier. Hence the fuming. That will be $1000 plus another $5 per month.
    - votepaunchy 8y ago
      The iCloud pricing tiers are $0.99, $2.99, and $9.99 for 50 GB, 200 GB, and 2 TB. The latter tiers can be shared across multiple accounts. Google only recently matched this pricing. iCloud is by far the best and simplest backup system and it just works.
    - walterbell 8y ago
      Could you use a NAS or external drive on laptop for backup? An 8TB external drive costs $200. https://github.com/libimobiledevice/libimobiledevice https://github.com/libimobiledevice/libimobiledevice
      - lostlogin 8y ago
        Photos. If you have a lot of photos they won’t fit in your Mac easily. Photos.app doesn’t work when on a NAS (cloud sync won’t go unless it’s open, and multiple users can’t access a NAS DB without issues). Apple doesn’t seem to handle family albums at all without either sharing an iCloud account or manually sending each photo to a shared album. Eww. I’d love a way of having all users photos uploaded to a cloud then synced to my NAS, but I’ve yet to find a good solution.
        walterbell 8y ago
        Take a look at Photosync, solves all those problems. https://www.photosync-app.com https://www.photosync-app.com
        lostlogin 8y ago
        Thanks - I’ve got that open in a tab already and was reading up on it. It’s nice to have a recommendation for it.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >Well, the free storage is for your account, not your device, right? Well, it _should_ be taking account your devices, which are also tied to your account, right?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
orev 8y ago
Apple has long been the subject of criticism for its pricing. Usually by tech people who think that the cost of components is what drives the final price of a product. This is wrong. There is a SINGLE driver of price for a is product: how much people will pay for it. That’s it. If people are willing to pay the price of a product, then that is the fair price of it. Simple as that. You can get into some game theory about the sweet spot of lower price vs volume vs profit, but Apple seems to be doing pretty well in that area already.
- setquk 8y ago
  Very true. This is one reason I’ve stopped paying for it and I know a lot of people who have walked away from their products in the last few years. They’re too expensive and we have higher priority things we need to spend money on. Also we’ve reached a plateau of innovation. Things were just about right circa 2011/2012. Everything else since has been quality, privacy or usability regressions disguised as innovation. I buy stuff now because it needs replacing due to being worn out not because it gives me an advantage.
  - kickopotomus 8y ago
    This is how I feel as well. I loved my 2012 MBP but it’s about time for an update. However, I don’t like any of the new laptops. I don’t understand why they had to screw with the keyboard so much. It is the worst thing that I have ever tried to type on. If they just upgraded the internals of the 2012 MBP but left the ports/aesthetics the same, I would buy it.
    - AnthonBerg 8y ago
      Conversely I love the new keyboards. It's fascinating how different people's experience is. May I ask you to describe your feeling? As a guess, does it feel ambiguous or inaccurate how short the keys are?
      - kickopotomus 8y ago
        I suppose I am just used to a deeper keypress. I tried typing on one for about 10-15 minutes in the store and I just kept mistyping almost every third word. It's difficult to describe. I guess my fingers are used to needing to move further to successfully press the keys so they just overcompensate for the smaller range of motion. Perhaps I could get used to it after awhile but I would rather not have to relearn how to use a keyboard when it is so different from the ones I use for my desktop and work machine.
perpetualcrayon 8y ago
(One of the wealthiest companies in the world) + (increases prices) = not caring about its loyal customers.
- Filligree 8y ago
  Why would it? That's not evidence of a trust, nor is there any legal requirement to pass on any amount of profit.
- eastWestMath 8y ago
  No.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >not passing financial success on to its loyal customers Companies don't pass "financial success on to its loyal customers". They pass it to their shareholders or invest it in their future production and expansion. >If they're not careful does this sort of thing open them up to anti-trust? No. You need a monopoly for that (and it can't be a monopoly on your own brand - e.g. "only Apple makes iOS devices") it has to be on a general product category (e.g. mobile OSes). E.g. when MS faced such issues, they had over 95% dominance on operating systems in general.
virmundi 8y ago
Oh, they are. On the other hand, maybe, if you keep the device long enough, it's not too bad. Here's my present life. I bought a System76 laptop about this time last year. I wanted to get away from Mac OS since Eclipse is terrible on it (shortcut-wise). I prefer Linux, as long as it just works. System76 offers that. Now the System76 battery is down to 90% of life after moderate use. My Late 2013 MBP is down to its 80% life after 4 year, the battery swells a bit, but still stays on longer and charges quicker than the System76. Maybe on the whole the price is valid.
- ploggingdev 8y ago
  Can you give us a mini review of the system76 laptop that you have? How's the build quality, battery life, after sales support etc.
  - virmundi 8y ago
    Overall, I'm happy with the purchase. As I get more employees, I'd probably look at System76 first. I appreciate their US based manufacturing goal. I purchased the Gazelle. It's mid-level. It's a 7th gen i7. It has 32 GB of RAM. Runs Ubuntu 18.04. Has 512 GB nvme ssd. The video card is an integrated Intel. This is perfectly setup for running 5-10 docker instances locally, VS Code, Android Studio, and other tools all at once. I never swap, even with Chrome. C++ compile times are acceptable. Go compiles instantaneously. I got all this for $1600, rounding up. Good quality for the money. Build-wise, I dislike a few things. The plastic shell feels cheap. There are minor creaks as I lift and carry it around one handed by the corner. The keyboard has a number pad, which I find annoying. Linux in general is terrible about turning the num lock on. Some apps will have it on. Other won't. This makes the Home and End buttons (accessed by my pinky) unstable: will I get 0 or got the end of the line? For a 15" notebook, there should be no pad. It should work like the MBP. It does have a backlight. The screen is good. There are no dead pixels (unlike the MBP that had them since day 1 but not in great enough number to get a replacement). It's not 4k. Rather it's good old fashion 1080p. Battery life is an interesting topic. Ubuntu is not geared for great battery life. XFCE is definitely not. As a result I really only get about 4 hours. In its day, the MBP got about 6 hours. My problem is the battery decayed quickly with the System76. I don't think, and I could be wrong, that the battery should be at 90% in one year. As to support, they are a little slow to respond. I also think they have an odd process. As far as I can tell, I don't get emails about tickets. I have to manually login and check the status. That's odd. Another oddity is that I can't figure out how to close tickets. I asked a question about the fan. They answered in a reasonable period. The ticket is still open. There is not button, as far as I can see, that allows me to complete/close the issue. Do notice the price tag. A similar MBP is about $3k. Sure, it has a better graphics card, but it's a linux machine. Gaming is not my priority. This price includes user-replaceable parts. I can buy a new batter without going back to System75. I can replace the SSD without going back to System76. All the parts are standard (I doubt I can add more RAM). If I got a more powerful video card, I could do all of this and save $1k vs MBP. As a quick aside, I'd love to see System76 move the mouse pad to the top of the keyboard. I don't think most people need a huge pad. A smaller pad at the top would prevent the palm from hitting it, which is a problem in Linux. So if there are any System76 reps reading this, give it a shot.
edhelas 8y ago
What about just stop buying those things? Seriously if I'm buying a laptop one day and I'm finding out that there's no power cable in the box, I just bring it back and said that they made a mistake and forgot something. They are just trying to press any last dollar from their customers, that's it. When you were buying an iPod a couple of years ago you had the AC adapter, USB/FireWire cable (and long ones!), sometime some extra accessories (pocket holder for the iPod Mini). All those small extras were really adding a little plus to the experience. Today you are just buying an expensive laptop, that you have to bring back to the Apple Store yourself (if you have one close by) if you have any issue. They doesn't cover some reparation costs that any other company would do. They are killing the 3rd party-reparation market. Also knowing that those devices are more and more fragile (seriously that keyboard on the latest MacBook). Just stop buying those devices.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >Seriously if I'm buying a laptop one day and I'm finding out that there's no power cable in the box, I just bring it back and said that they made a mistake and forgot something. There is a power cable, just not a long extension that also used to be. >What about just stop buying those things? What about we still want them, and we don't want to buy and suffer a subpar (for our criteria) alternative just to get them to be more generous with their profit margins...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - cannonedhamster 8y ago
    The only way that you matter to them is how much you bring to their bottom line. This isn't the Steve Jobs era where you have a sole visionary crafting something of value. This is a run of the mill hardware company charging luxury prices for above average hardware in the best of cases and a ton of vendor lock in.
- simonh 8y ago
  I bought my 27” iMac 4 years ago, it’s out of all it’s warranties but when the hard drive failed a few months ago they waived the cost of replacing it. They scraped charging for MacOS upgrades years ago. I had some system performance problems a while back and their phone support talked to me immediately and helped me through the troubleshooting process very clearly, again after I was out of warranty. No charge. ICloud is a bit expensive so I don’t use it, but there are plenty of alternatives. I use Dropbox and Google Drive. I can see the convenience being worth it for some people. Let the market decide. Apple gear is pricey, but I’ve never really felt nickel and dimed. I know some people have bad experiences, but for me once I’ve bought their stuff I’ve got excellent and quite generous after sales support.
nickm12 8y ago
The 'nickel and diming' is definitely there, but also straight up price increase. Twelve years ago, when I was a student, I was able to buy an iBook G4 at what seemed like a very reasonable price for what you got. Now it feels like you can't get into a decent Mac for less than $1200. I guess Apple's solution is to sell old models forever, rather than design new, low to mid-range products.
- jamroom 8y ago
  This is just inflation. In 2003 when the G4 iBook was unveiled, the cheapest model started at $1099: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2003/10/22Apple-Unveils-New-Generation-G4-iBooks-Starting-at-Just-1-099/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2003/10/22Apple-Unveils-New-G... In 2018 dollars (adjusted for inflation) that is ~$1507.00. You can get a mid-level Macbook Pro for that now.
- xoa 8y ago
  >but also straight up price increase. Twelve years ago, when I was a student, I was able to buy an iBook G4 at what seemed like a very reasonable price for what you got. Now it feels like you can't get into a decent Mac for less than $1200. Are you sure you're not misremembering a student discount vs retail? Because the lowest end 12" early 2004 iBook G4 launched for $1100, and the 14" launched for $1300. That's in 2004 money, that's around $1500/$1750 (respectively) after 12 years of inflation. And the iBook G4 was not quite on the relative level of the new MacBook Airs (which I assume is what you're comparing to with that $1200 number). Double thunderbolt 3 IO alone makes them far more versatile in higher power activities. I mean your post is kind of interesting as an example of how people's memories work with regard to pricing over time anyway.
- greeneggs 8y ago
  The iBook G4 started at $1100, and dropped to $1000 in 2004, for the 12-inch model. The CPI has inflated by almost exactly 25% over the last 12 years, so that's $1250 real dollars today. It would be nice if Apple drove prices down more, but for what it's worth today's machines are nicer in lots of ways.
- ken 8y ago
jdavis703 8y ago
This goes for all companies, but I’m tired of every product shipping with a USB cable. I have plenty already, it’s wasteful to keep shipping more. Further, can we all migrate to USB C, that’ll further reduce the need to include a different kind of cable with each electronic device.
- kalleboo 8y ago
  I still get exasperated when I see a brand new product ship with miniUSB. I'm afraid we'll never get rid of these legacy ports.
  - prolikewh0a 8y ago
    Just got ATH-m50xBT headphones, brand new as of last week, comes with a MicroUSB. WTF Audio Technica!
    - iamdave 8y ago
      I'll raise you. I once Bought a new set of headphones that came with miniUSB that plugs into a volume knob which itself plugs into my desktop via USB 2. It also came with a miniUSB to 3.5mm adapter. Just this morning I was pulling them out of my backpack getting off the train and noticed for the first time (I've had these headphones a year) there's a discreet 3.5mm headphone jack. You know what didn't come in the box? A 3.5mm headphone cable. Which means if I want to plug this thing into an old iPod or my docking station at work, I'd need to bring a miniUSB cable and an adapter. Or just go buy my own 3.5mm cable. Very interesting design choices if you ask me.
- gandalfian 8y ago
  Oh I don't know. Whenever a charging cable wears out it's quite handy to rummage in a retained product box and find a neatly packaged new one. I always find myself short of usb charger plugs too.
ThJ 8y ago
Apple had a good run. I'm in a twist. I don't like Windows or Android and Linux just isn't there on the desktop. I made the switch from Windows/Android around 2012-2014 and it was a relief. Now I hate all their new hardware. They have really let down their professional users. Every owner of a new Macbook has one of those flimsy and ugly port extenders hanging off the side of the machine just to get a basic set of ports, and the butterfly keyboard is god-awful. I can't type on a keyboard that hurts my fingertips. As for the iPhone: I'd like to keep my home button with TouchID and my screen without the notch. I'm not sure what to upgrade to when this iPhone 7 Plus, which by the way cost a fortune, breaks. Apple seems to have crossed a line. They're no longer selling good products at a premium. At this point, they're basically milking their customers. I hope this backfires severely for them.
- wilsonnb3 8y ago
  There’s a difference between “no longer sells good products” and “no longer sells the exact product I want”.
  - tehduder9 8y ago
    Yep, people have been repeating this same meme for a little more than half a decade and the amount of money they make and product they sell has only gone up.
  - jgalentine007 8y ago
    I don't know, I'd agree with the OP. I like OSX, have 3 macbooks, but damn if the new ones aren't a terrible compromise - especially the keyboards and being forced into the touchbar (which is a straight up gimmick like 3d tv)
  - save_ferris 8y ago
    It's weird how as they've added more SKUs to their product lineup, it's become harder to find the exact product I want. Their product lineup used to be so simple and easy to navigate, but now it's a mess, and it's opinionated just enough to push users in a particular direction. Want a fully-loaded 15 in. MBP without a touch bar? Too bad. I don't care that it shines when using Garage Band because I don't really use Garage Band. They appeared to kill the Macbook Air when they dropped the latest iteration of the Macbook, only to bring back the Air last month. Sure, these machines are all still well-built and should meet the demands of their users. But Apple's ability to communicate and ship their various product lines is getting noticeably worse, and that raises fears for the future (rightfully so.) Because at the end of the day, we're not just buying laptops and phones, we're committing to the ecosystem that these devices grant us access to.
chiph 8y ago
$9.00 for a lightning to 3.5mm headphone dongle. Yes, I paid. But didn't like the experience.
- spiritcat 8y ago
  Think how much better the experience would be with air pods though! (not that i don't kinda want some air pods)
  - ianai 8y ago
    I still prejudge all airpod users as douchebags - same as the old Bluetooth douchebags from the blackberry days. AirPods just look like an over complication.
    - iamdave 8y ago
      I tried them out, just from a functional standpoint of using them as ostensibly wireless earbuds? They do a really good job, I get the appeal behind them from a very utilitarian point of view. Just one person's own opinion. Wouldn't ever own a pair though. I am absolutely awful at not losing earbuds, so I exclusively wear over ear phones now. Much harder to lose.
jmull 8y ago
A thread on Reddit complaining about Apple dongles!?! Big news indeed.
porphyrogene 8y ago
I just bought a brand new iPhone SE for about $160. It's tiny, fast, inexpensive and miles ahead of my not-that-old Samsung in terms of usability. I will probably never use its full computational capacity so there is nothing attractive about the newer, more powerful phones. It also has a 3.5mm audio port! I agree that it is absurd to pay $800 for a phone that lacks features I want and has features I don't want. So I didn't. It's that easy.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  I just bought a $160 Android One phone from China. Headphone jack, dual sim, 256GB SD, FM radio, IR blaster, tiny notch & chin with a really respectable IPS panel with great colors & saturation, receive at least the next 2 major Android versions & monthly security updates, 12 hour screen on time battery life, works fine with T-Mobile & ATT in USA, camera that would easily compete with mid-range 2018 phones with a portrait mode that actually works better than I've seen on any other phone. Why are people buying these $1200 phones that have taken away pretty much everything?
  - StreamBright 8y ago
    This is all great. What are those next two major Android releases include that I need? Also, how can I remove the Google surveillance code from the phone? I just dont like that they trac my location, record my conversations and inject spam into almost every “product” they got. Comparing any Android device to iOS is hard because the the former is a data collection device with some features reminder of a mobile phone while the latter is a mobile phone primary designed and build for the best UX.
    - prolikewh0a 8y ago
      Most of this is opinion, so I'll answer the legitimate questions. >What are those next two major Android releases include that I need? These are future releases, so not sure. Android 9 'Pie' should be available soon and the features included in that can be researched with your preferred search engine. >Also, how can I remove the Google surveillance code from the phone? You can install a third party ROM if you'd like. LineageOS doesn't come with Google Play Services. >Comparing any Android device to iOS is hard because the the former is a data collection device with some features reminder of a mobile phone while the latter is a mobile phone primary designed and build for the best UX. Use what you like. I personally find iOS to be terrible with ergonomics, UX, and just plain everyday features. You can't open zip/rar files, can't download MP3's, can't play m4a's, can't play .webm's, there's no file management system. I can do pretty much everything my laptop does on my $160 Android, but not on a $1400 iPhone.
loopdoend 8y ago
The USB-C cable the comes with the new iPad Pro (11”) is so short, flimsy, and awful you would think it was a knockoff.
goldcd 8y ago
Apple publicly said they aren't going to release sales numbers going forward (take a guess why). To retain revenue they just need to get more out of each sale - and that's ensuring somebody who comes in for an upgrade pays more than last time, sticks a few more accessories in the pack, and clicks to bump up the iCloud size (or maybe you think they've decided they've got enough, screw the shareholders and are about to start 'giving back' to their users)
dman 8y ago
If you work for a large company and have a department that does tech support, talk to the people there about recent Apple products. In my case that made me realise that the increasing unreliability is not just anecdotal or the result of people being finicky - it appears that the last couple of years of macbook pros have had measurably more support issues than previous versions. When my 2013 Macbook Pro dies, I suspect I will not replace it with a newer machine.

As in the article my main gripe is the iCloud storage. As you buy more Apple devices your free storage allotment doesn’t scale up accordingly.

oneplane 8y ago
Well, the free storage is for your account, not your device, right? I suppose it would be nice if you get extra free monthly storage per device you use your account with. Maybe a model where the amount of devices you have simply multiplies the free storage baseline.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Yes, it’s for your account. But as you add devices you want to back up it pretty much pushes you into a paid tier. Hence the fuming. That will be $1000 plus another $5 per month.
  - votepaunchy 8y ago
    The iCloud pricing tiers are $0.99, $2.99, and $9.99 for 50 GB, 200 GB, and 2 TB. The latter tiers can be shared across multiple accounts. Google only recently matched this pricing. iCloud is by far the best and simplest backup system and it just works.
  - walterbell 8y ago
    Could you use a NAS or external drive on laptop for backup? An 8TB external drive costs $200. https://github.com/libimobiledevice/libimobiledevice https://github.com/libimobiledevice/libimobiledevice
    - lostlogin 8y ago
      Photos. If you have a lot of photos they won’t fit in your Mac easily. Photos.app doesn’t work when on a NAS (cloud sync won’t go unless it’s open, and multiple users can’t access a NAS DB without issues). Apple doesn’t seem to handle family albums at all without either sharing an iCloud account or manually sending each photo to a shared album. Eww. I’d love a way of having all users photos uploaded to a cloud then synced to my NAS, but I’ve yet to find a good solution.
      - walterbell 8y ago
        Take a look at Photosync, solves all those problems. https://www.photosync-app.com https://www.photosync-app.com
        lostlogin 8y ago
        Thanks - I’ve got that open in a tab already and was reading up on it. It’s nice to have a recommendation for it.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >Well, the free storage is for your account, not your device, right? Well, it _should_ be taking account your devices, which are also tied to your account, right?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

orev 8y ago

Apple has long been the subject of criticism for its pricing. Usually by tech people who think that the cost of components is what drives the final price of a product. This is wrong. There is a SINGLE driver of price for a is product: how much people will pay for it. That’s it. If people are willing to pay the price of a product, then that is the fair price of it. Simple as that. You can get into some game theory about the sweet spot of lower price vs volume vs profit, but Apple seems to be doing pretty well in that area already.

setquk 8y ago
Very true. This is one reason I’ve stopped paying for it and I know a lot of people who have walked away from their products in the last few years. They’re too expensive and we have higher priority things we need to spend money on. Also we’ve reached a plateau of innovation. Things were just about right circa 2011/2012. Everything else since has been quality, privacy or usability regressions disguised as innovation. I buy stuff now because it needs replacing due to being worn out not because it gives me an advantage.
- kickopotomus 8y ago
  This is how I feel as well. I loved my 2012 MBP but it’s about time for an update. However, I don’t like any of the new laptops. I don’t understand why they had to screw with the keyboard so much. It is the worst thing that I have ever tried to type on. If they just upgraded the internals of the 2012 MBP but left the ports/aesthetics the same, I would buy it.
  - AnthonBerg 8y ago
    Conversely I love the new keyboards. It's fascinating how different people's experience is. May I ask you to describe your feeling? As a guess, does it feel ambiguous or inaccurate how short the keys are?
    - kickopotomus 8y ago
      I suppose I am just used to a deeper keypress. I tried typing on one for about 10-15 minutes in the store and I just kept mistyping almost every third word. It's difficult to describe. I guess my fingers are used to needing to move further to successfully press the keys so they just overcompensate for the smaller range of motion. Perhaps I could get used to it after awhile but I would rather not have to relearn how to use a keyboard when it is so different from the ones I use for my desktop and work machine.

perpetualcrayon 8y ago

(One of the wealthiest companies in the world) + (increases prices) = not caring about its loyal customers.

Filligree 8y ago
Why would it? That's not evidence of a trust, nor is there any legal requirement to pass on any amount of profit.
eastWestMath 8y ago
No.
coldtea 8y ago
>not passing financial success on to its loyal customers Companies don't pass "financial success on to its loyal customers". They pass it to their shareholders or invest it in their future production and expansion. >If they're not careful does this sort of thing open them up to anti-trust? No. You need a monopoly for that (and it can't be a monopoly on your own brand - e.g. "only Apple makes iOS devices") it has to be on a general product category (e.g. mobile OSes). E.g. when MS faced such issues, they had over 95% dominance on operating systems in general.

virmundi 8y ago

Oh, they are. On the other hand, maybe, if you keep the device long enough, it's not too bad. Here's my present life. I bought a System76 laptop about this time last year. I wanted to get away from Mac OS since Eclipse is terrible on it (shortcut-wise). I prefer Linux, as long as it just works. System76 offers that. Now the System76 battery is down to 90% of life after moderate use. My Late 2013 MBP is down to its 80% life after 4 year, the battery swells a bit, but still stays on longer and charges quicker than the System76. Maybe on the whole the price is valid.

ploggingdev 8y ago
Can you give us a mini review of the system76 laptop that you have? How's the build quality, battery life, after sales support etc.
- virmundi 8y ago
  Overall, I'm happy with the purchase. As I get more employees, I'd probably look at System76 first. I appreciate their US based manufacturing goal. I purchased the Gazelle. It's mid-level. It's a 7th gen i7. It has 32 GB of RAM. Runs Ubuntu 18.04. Has 512 GB nvme ssd. The video card is an integrated Intel. This is perfectly setup for running 5-10 docker instances locally, VS Code, Android Studio, and other tools all at once. I never swap, even with Chrome. C++ compile times are acceptable. Go compiles instantaneously. I got all this for $1600, rounding up. Good quality for the money. Build-wise, I dislike a few things. The plastic shell feels cheap. There are minor creaks as I lift and carry it around one handed by the corner. The keyboard has a number pad, which I find annoying. Linux in general is terrible about turning the num lock on. Some apps will have it on. Other won't. This makes the Home and End buttons (accessed by my pinky) unstable: will I get 0 or got the end of the line? For a 15" notebook, there should be no pad. It should work like the MBP. It does have a backlight. The screen is good. There are no dead pixels (unlike the MBP that had them since day 1 but not in great enough number to get a replacement). It's not 4k. Rather it's good old fashion 1080p. Battery life is an interesting topic. Ubuntu is not geared for great battery life. XFCE is definitely not. As a result I really only get about 4 hours. In its day, the MBP got about 6 hours. My problem is the battery decayed quickly with the System76. I don't think, and I could be wrong, that the battery should be at 90% in one year. As to support, they are a little slow to respond. I also think they have an odd process. As far as I can tell, I don't get emails about tickets. I have to manually login and check the status. That's odd. Another oddity is that I can't figure out how to close tickets. I asked a question about the fan. They answered in a reasonable period. The ticket is still open. There is not button, as far as I can see, that allows me to complete/close the issue. Do notice the price tag. A similar MBP is about $3k. Sure, it has a better graphics card, but it's a linux machine. Gaming is not my priority. This price includes user-replaceable parts. I can buy a new batter without going back to System75. I can replace the SSD without going back to System76. All the parts are standard (I doubt I can add more RAM). If I got a more powerful video card, I could do all of this and save $1k vs MBP. As a quick aside, I'd love to see System76 move the mouse pad to the top of the keyboard. I don't think most people need a huge pad. A smaller pad at the top would prevent the palm from hitting it, which is a problem in Linux. So if there are any System76 reps reading this, give it a shot.

edhelas 8y ago

What about just stop buying those things? Seriously if I'm buying a laptop one day and I'm finding out that there's no power cable in the box, I just bring it back and said that they made a mistake and forgot something. They are just trying to press any last dollar from their customers, that's it. When you were buying an iPod a couple of years ago you had the AC adapter, USB/FireWire cable (and long ones!), sometime some extra accessories (pocket holder for the iPod Mini). All those small extras were really adding a little plus to the experience. Today you are just buying an expensive laptop, that you have to bring back to the Apple Store yourself (if you have one close by) if you have any issue. They doesn't cover some reparation costs that any other company would do. They are killing the 3rd party-reparation market. Also knowing that those devices are more and more fragile (seriously that keyboard on the latest MacBook). Just stop buying those devices.

coldtea 8y ago
>Seriously if I'm buying a laptop one day and I'm finding out that there's no power cable in the box, I just bring it back and said that they made a mistake and forgot something. There is a power cable, just not a long extension that also used to be. >What about just stop buying those things? What about we still want them, and we don't want to buy and suffer a subpar (for our criteria) alternative just to get them to be more generous with their profit margins...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- cannonedhamster 8y ago
  The only way that you matter to them is how much you bring to their bottom line. This isn't the Steve Jobs era where you have a sole visionary crafting something of value. This is a run of the mill hardware company charging luxury prices for above average hardware in the best of cases and a ton of vendor lock in.
simonh 8y ago
I bought my 27” iMac 4 years ago, it’s out of all it’s warranties but when the hard drive failed a few months ago they waived the cost of replacing it. They scraped charging for MacOS upgrades years ago. I had some system performance problems a while back and their phone support talked to me immediately and helped me through the troubleshooting process very clearly, again after I was out of warranty. No charge. ICloud is a bit expensive so I don’t use it, but there are plenty of alternatives. I use Dropbox and Google Drive. I can see the convenience being worth it for some people. Let the market decide. Apple gear is pricey, but I’ve never really felt nickel and dimed. I know some people have bad experiences, but for me once I’ve bought their stuff I’ve got excellent and quite generous after sales support.

nickm12 8y ago

The 'nickel and diming' is definitely there, but also straight up price increase. Twelve years ago, when I was a student, I was able to buy an iBook G4 at what seemed like a very reasonable price for what you got. Now it feels like you can't get into a decent Mac for less than $1200. I guess Apple's solution is to sell old models forever, rather than design new, low to mid-range products.

jamroom 8y ago
This is just inflation. In 2003 when the G4 iBook was unveiled, the cheapest model started at $1099: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2003/10/22Apple-Unveils-New-Generation-G4-iBooks-Starting-at-Just-1-099/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2003/10/22Apple-Unveils-New-G... In 2018 dollars (adjusted for inflation) that is ~$1507.00. You can get a mid-level Macbook Pro for that now.
xoa 8y ago
>but also straight up price increase. Twelve years ago, when I was a student, I was able to buy an iBook G4 at what seemed like a very reasonable price for what you got. Now it feels like you can't get into a decent Mac for less than $1200. Are you sure you're not misremembering a student discount vs retail? Because the lowest end 12" early 2004 iBook G4 launched for $1100, and the 14" launched for $1300. That's in 2004 money, that's around $1500/$1750 (respectively) after 12 years of inflation. And the iBook G4 was not quite on the relative level of the new MacBook Airs (which I assume is what you're comparing to with that $1200 number). Double thunderbolt 3 IO alone makes them far more versatile in higher power activities. I mean your post is kind of interesting as an example of how people's memories work with regard to pricing over time anyway.
greeneggs 8y ago
The iBook G4 started at $1100, and dropped to $1000 in 2004, for the 12-inch model. The CPI has inflated by almost exactly 25% over the last 12 years, so that's $1250 real dollars today. It would be nice if Apple drove prices down more, but for what it's worth today's machines are nicer in lots of ways.
ken 8y ago

jdavis703 8y ago

This goes for all companies, but I’m tired of every product shipping with a USB cable. I have plenty already, it’s wasteful to keep shipping more. Further, can we all migrate to USB C, that’ll further reduce the need to include a different kind of cable with each electronic device.

kalleboo 8y ago
I still get exasperated when I see a brand new product ship with miniUSB. I'm afraid we'll never get rid of these legacy ports.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  Just got ATH-m50xBT headphones, brand new as of last week, comes with a MicroUSB. WTF Audio Technica!
  - iamdave 8y ago
    I'll raise you. I once Bought a new set of headphones that came with miniUSB that plugs into a volume knob which itself plugs into my desktop via USB 2. It also came with a miniUSB to 3.5mm adapter. Just this morning I was pulling them out of my backpack getting off the train and noticed for the first time (I've had these headphones a year) there's a discreet 3.5mm headphone jack. You know what didn't come in the box? A 3.5mm headphone cable. Which means if I want to plug this thing into an old iPod or my docking station at work, I'd need to bring a miniUSB cable and an adapter. Or just go buy my own 3.5mm cable. Very interesting design choices if you ask me.
gandalfian 8y ago
Oh I don't know. Whenever a charging cable wears out it's quite handy to rummage in a retained product box and find a neatly packaged new one. I always find myself short of usb charger plugs too.

ThJ 8y ago

Apple had a good run. I'm in a twist. I don't like Windows or Android and Linux just isn't there on the desktop. I made the switch from Windows/Android around 2012-2014 and it was a relief. Now I hate all their new hardware. They have really let down their professional users. Every owner of a new Macbook has one of those flimsy and ugly port extenders hanging off the side of the machine just to get a basic set of ports, and the butterfly keyboard is god-awful. I can't type on a keyboard that hurts my fingertips. As for the iPhone: I'd like to keep my home button with TouchID and my screen without the notch. I'm not sure what to upgrade to when this iPhone 7 Plus, which by the way cost a fortune, breaks. Apple seems to have crossed a line. They're no longer selling good products at a premium. At this point, they're basically milking their customers. I hope this backfires severely for them.

wilsonnb3 8y ago
There’s a difference between “no longer sells good products” and “no longer sells the exact product I want”.
- tehduder9 8y ago
  Yep, people have been repeating this same meme for a little more than half a decade and the amount of money they make and product they sell has only gone up.
- jgalentine007 8y ago
  I don't know, I'd agree with the OP. I like OSX, have 3 macbooks, but damn if the new ones aren't a terrible compromise - especially the keyboards and being forced into the touchbar (which is a straight up gimmick like 3d tv)
- save_ferris 8y ago
  It's weird how as they've added more SKUs to their product lineup, it's become harder to find the exact product I want. Their product lineup used to be so simple and easy to navigate, but now it's a mess, and it's opinionated just enough to push users in a particular direction. Want a fully-loaded 15 in. MBP without a touch bar? Too bad. I don't care that it shines when using Garage Band because I don't really use Garage Band. They appeared to kill the Macbook Air when they dropped the latest iteration of the Macbook, only to bring back the Air last month. Sure, these machines are all still well-built and should meet the demands of their users. But Apple's ability to communicate and ship their various product lines is getting noticeably worse, and that raises fears for the future (rightfully so.) Because at the end of the day, we're not just buying laptops and phones, we're committing to the ecosystem that these devices grant us access to.

chiph 8y ago

$9.00 for a lightning to 3.5mm headphone dongle. Yes, I paid. But didn't like the experience.

spiritcat 8y ago
Think how much better the experience would be with air pods though! (not that i don't kinda want some air pods)
- ianai 8y ago
  I still prejudge all airpod users as douchebags - same as the old Bluetooth douchebags from the blackberry days. AirPods just look like an over complication.
  - iamdave 8y ago
    I tried them out, just from a functional standpoint of using them as ostensibly wireless earbuds? They do a really good job, I get the appeal behind them from a very utilitarian point of view. Just one person's own opinion. Wouldn't ever own a pair though. I am absolutely awful at not losing earbuds, so I exclusively wear over ear phones now. Much harder to lose.

jmull 8y ago

A thread on Reddit complaining about Apple dongles!?! Big news indeed.

porphyrogene 8y ago

I just bought a brand new iPhone SE for about $160. It's tiny, fast, inexpensive and miles ahead of my not-that-old Samsung in terms of usability. I will probably never use its full computational capacity so there is nothing attractive about the newer, more powerful phones. It also has a 3.5mm audio port! I agree that it is absurd to pay $800 for a phone that lacks features I want and has features I don't want. So I didn't. It's that easy.

prolikewh0a 8y ago
I just bought a $160 Android One phone from China. Headphone jack, dual sim, 256GB SD, FM radio, IR blaster, tiny notch & chin with a really respectable IPS panel with great colors & saturation, receive at least the next 2 major Android versions & monthly security updates, 12 hour screen on time battery life, works fine with T-Mobile & ATT in USA, camera that would easily compete with mid-range 2018 phones with a portrait mode that actually works better than I've seen on any other phone. Why are people buying these $1200 phones that have taken away pretty much everything?
- StreamBright 8y ago
  This is all great. What are those next two major Android releases include that I need? Also, how can I remove the Google surveillance code from the phone? I just dont like that they trac my location, record my conversations and inject spam into almost every “product” they got. Comparing any Android device to iOS is hard because the the former is a data collection device with some features reminder of a mobile phone while the latter is a mobile phone primary designed and build for the best UX.
  - prolikewh0a 8y ago
    Most of this is opinion, so I'll answer the legitimate questions. >What are those next two major Android releases include that I need? These are future releases, so not sure. Android 9 'Pie' should be available soon and the features included in that can be researched with your preferred search engine. >Also, how can I remove the Google surveillance code from the phone? You can install a third party ROM if you'd like. LineageOS doesn't come with Google Play Services. >Comparing any Android device to iOS is hard because the the former is a data collection device with some features reminder of a mobile phone while the latter is a mobile phone primary designed and build for the best UX. Use what you like. I personally find iOS to be terrible with ergonomics, UX, and just plain everyday features. You can't open zip/rar files, can't download MP3's, can't play m4a's, can't play .webm's, there's no file management system. I can do pretty much everything my laptop does on my $160 Android, but not on a $1400 iPhone.

loopdoend 8y ago

The USB-C cable the comes with the new iPad Pro (11”) is so short, flimsy, and awful you would think it was a knockoff.

goldcd 8y ago

Apple publicly said they aren't going to release sales numbers going forward (take a guess why). To retain revenue they just need to get more out of each sale - and that's ensuring somebody who comes in for an upgrade pays more than last time, sticks a few more accessories in the pack, and clicks to bump up the iCloud size (or maybe you think they've decided they've got enough, screw the shareholders and are about to start 'giving back' to their users)

dman 8y ago

If you work for a large company and have a department that does tech support, talk to the people there about recent Apple products. In my case that made me realise that the increasing unreliability is not just anecdotal or the result of people being finicky - it appears that the last couple of years of macbook pros have had measurably more support issues than previous versions. When my 2013 Macbook Pro dies, I suspect I will not replace it with a newer machine.