32 ms·
F.D.A. Plans to Seek a Ban on Menthol Cigarettes
- carbocation 8y agoGood. Oh, sorry; I’m just a doctor. Maybe I should stay in my lane?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- tptacek 8y agoUnusually salty for you! :)
- carbocation 8y agoSo many of my patients were harmed by smoking that I guess this one feels personal!
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- millzlane 8y agoGet em hooked then when they become dependent you take it away. It's interesting they chose flavored cigarettes and not flavored alcohol. The attack specifically on menthol is meant to target the major users of the product. Its not about the kids. And its not about righting some wrong by cigarettes advertisers. This is meant to target the people who use the product.
- freedomben 8y agoI tend to agree. This strikes me as incredibly and clearly racist as well. They openly acknowledge which community this will target. It's astounding that a white senator (and mostly white FDA I would assume) imposing his/their will on a group of people primarily of color is perfectly acceptable to people.
- ada1981 8y agoYeah I didn’t see anything in the article talking about how menthol is any more dangerous than regular smokes - are they?
- cnasc 8y agoSince the menthol cools your throat it makes heavy smoking less unpleasant and also makes it easier for a new smoker to develop a habit. Whether there’s data to show that these effects are significant enough to justify a ban specifically on menthols, however, I don’t know.
- raquo 8y agohttps://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/8xdx7k/are-menthol-cigarettes-worse https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/8xdx7k/are-menthol-ciga... They are just as bad as regular cigarettes, possibly worse, and yet people perceive them as less bad, causing overconsumption.
- eof 8y agoI don't see any evidence that people perceive them to be less bad. That article fakes a reference to that claim but it goes to a link that is irrelevant to the claim. I have known many menthol smokers and have spent most of my life around smokers. I have literally never once heard the opinion menthol was somehow safer. In fact, I have often heard the opposite; with claims that the menthols have "fiber glass" in them.
- IAmGraydon 8y agoAnd what do you suppose the end game of this conspiracy is?
- donatj 8y agoI genuinely believe there’s a group of people out there who’s goal is to make us all live long miserable lives. I’d far rather optimize enjoyment/time to just time.
- leetcrew 8y agoit's a lot worse than that imo. these people genuinely believe that they possess the roadmap for living The Good Life. once they realize how much better their way is than the one we freely choose, it becomes immoral not to bend us toward their way of life.
- millzlane 8y agoNot sure if there is a conspiracy at play. But if we were to use our imagination we can probabaly come up with some pretty good ones. But I suspect it's to provoke and antagonize. If people in my community "one of the worst in the country" were to wake up to find out their favorite type of cigarette had been banned. I don't think people would be happy to find their liberty being encroached upon so egregiously. It's intresting they chose flavored cigarettes and not alcohol. One is a greater public safety issue than the other. The fact that they chose something so innocuous is the dead giveaway, that there is ulterior motive.
- docbrown 8y agoFor those of us without a NYT account, one part I found interesting from the WSJ report on the topic was their carefulness regarding pulling the trigger prematurely. While the FDA is trying to decrease the attractiveness of menthol, they’re strategically playing a sympathetic long term game with smokers. As they and everyone knows, quiting smoking is a difficult task and suddenly prohibiting many peoples go-to fix would be cruel and possibly cause more harm than good. >FDA officials—who want to curb use among youth while still encouraging adult cigarette smokers to switch to less harmful products like e-cigarettes—decided not to restrict sales of mint and menthol e-cigarettes because they didn’t want to create a situation in which cigarettes were more attractive to smokers who prefer menthol, senior agency officials said. [1] [1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/fda-to-propose-ban-of-menthol-cigarettes-1541795941 https://www.wsj.com/articles/fda-to-propose-ban-of-menthol-c...
- udp 8y agoNothing strategic there. It would be bizarre and unprecedented to ban any e-cigarette flavour. There are thousands, and there’s nothing special about menthol.
- dpark 8y agoNothing unprecedented about it. Most traditional cigarette flavors are banned, since 2009.
- 1stcity3rdcoast 8y agoIt just happened today: https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/health-science/fda-plans-to-impose-severe-restrictions-on-e-cigarettes/2018/11/08/91253cf2-e3a1-11e8-8f5f-a55347f48762_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/health-scien...
- stevedt 8y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menthol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menthol FTA: Menthol has local anesthetic and counterirritant qualities, and it is widely used to relieve minor throat irritation. This makes it easier to get new smokers going without the coughing / throat irritation.
- ada1981 8y agoNo paywall: https://outline.com/Ka6xJx https://outline.com/Ka6xJx
- kodablah 8y agoThis is scarily prohibitionist. This is not a health-related choice, only an enjoyment preference one. Whether you find the war on smoking justified or not, outright banning of flavored tobacco this way has parallels in other illegalization approaches. And when you grow your own tobacco and flavor it? Criminal. On a general note, I find it upsetting how many people cheer these things on due to misplaced righteousness. You can disagree with smoking and even recognize its societal harms that affect you without supporting making it illegal. If only the human lifecycle were twice as long, we'd have many remembering political victories built on prohibition platforms followed by state after state banning breweries on the way to the 18th amendment.
- HarryHirsch 8y agoIt's absolutely health-related. Menthol is a mild anaesthetic (remember menthol sports cream?) and permits the inexperienced smoker to inhale fully. Same with the eugenol in kretek cigarettes.
- kodablah 8y agoWhile the heath related differences exist, they exist in several different forms of tobacco consumption. The proposed ban is coming at the same time as the proposal for banning all flavored-except-menthol ecigs. By your logic, menthol flavored ecigs would also encourage more inhalation which is also worse and should be banned with the other flavors, but it's not. Why? Because it's, admittedly, more about the type of consumer and it's a government-mandated step down program. It's more about what's politically acceptable to ban than health related. While it may have benefits (prohibition cut drinking in half), if anything, it's a trial balloon. I believe the general war on tobacco to be rooted in health concerns, but I believe this action to be a test to confirm the societal acceptance of this approach.
- HarryHirsch 8y agoYou don't need anything to numb your lungs to inhale deeply from a vape. And I think that Juul & similar should be banned because of the addiction potential, the way they deliver nicotine is designed to resemble cigarettes.
- adrr 8y agoMaybe let this decision fall to the states. I also don't like that Marijuana is banned at the federal level.
- mcthro 8y agoI understand that menthol cigarettes are more attractive because they make smoking more pleasant. I also understand they can be more dangerous, because part of being more pleasant is inhaling being more comfortable[0], so one might take bigger drags and/or hold them longer. As someone trying to quit (menthols particularly), I can see this move helping some (and I also see it incredibly frustrating for anyone not looking to quit, though they should be!). Part of my difficulty in quitting is how widely available smokes are - in my day to day life, they're only ever 5 minutes away, and that ease of access is a huge barrier in staying smoke-free. I've tried the non-menthols in my brand and I can't stand them. Banning menthols solves the availability problem (for me), and while I disagree with it ideologically, it's hard to argue with it practicality. [0] https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/8xdx7k/are-menthol-cigarettes-worse https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/8xdx7k/are-menthol-ciga...
- provolone 8y agoWhich is more practical? Tackling your lack of self discipline and perhaps growing as a person, or appealing for the government to punish the sellers of the product you enjoy?
- wild_preference 8y agoWhat kind of cost does society bear because of smoking? Since we share finite resources like insurance pools and the medical system, there's a case for society to restrict the actions of others.
- provolone 8y agoMaybe we should force them to exercise too? Or perhaps we should take a vote on what is definitively healthy and restrict the public's diet to pre-approved items? If China has social credits, maybe the west needs government enforced health credits? As it is, FDA bureaucrats are appointed, not elected. What are the costs of deferring individuals' choices to a mob's vote or to the whims of appointed bureaucrats? Advocates of centrally planned societies will always point to the purported benefits of their authoritarian models. At what point is the individual responsible for his own health? If we absolve the individual of all personal responsibility and replace it with a set of all encompassing dictates - What does it mean to be a free human being in such a society? How would this differ from being property of the state?
- snarfy 8y ago> The products, which include such flavors as chicken-and-waffles and mango, would be mainly relegated to sales online, at sites where the agency hopes to impose strict age verification to ensure that minors could not buy them. "Strict age verification with online sales". I would very much like to see how this is supposed to work.
- stan_rogers 8y agoIn Canada, that means signature (and ID if you appear under 30) on delivery. So far in the US, it's meant photo ID verification on placing an order if an algorithm decides your CC isn't doing what it would normally do.
- claydavisss 8y agoMenthol cigarettes are also favored overwhelmingly by African Americans...as pointed out in the SF debate on menthol cigarettes, this is another bit of astounding racism masquerading as benevolence
- bostik 8y agoPlanet Money did an episode (#842) where one item was on flavoured tobacco products. A particular law targeting tobacco products expressly exempts menthol cigarettes. The episode pointed out that this was a result of intense industry lobbying, who were facing competition from non-US producers, mostly supplying products flavoured with all kinds of other things. And yes, menthol == mint.
- KozmoNau7 8y agoGiven the free choice, some people will drink, eat, smoke and otherwise drug themselves into oblivion. We can't solve this issue by simply banning the problematic substances, prohibition and other bans have shown this. Consumption taxes are also implemented in many countries, but these have issues as well. Namely in regards to lobbying and how the taxes are chosen, and how they disproportionately affect low-income segments. Personally I am torn on this subject. I highly appreciate the public smoking ban that has been implemented in restaurants, bars and other public venues, as well as on public transit and related facilities. I do respect smoking as a personal choice, just as I expect teetotalers to respect that I enjoy the consumption of alcohol, or vegetarians/vegans to respect that I enjoy consuming foods with meat in them. All of these have proven generally negative health effects, but I choose to partake in some of them, as an informed choice. I also recognize that all of these activities have some negative effect on the world and society, in one way or another, yet it would be counterproductive to ban them outright. What I don't like about smoking in particular is the stench and effects of passive smoking, and especially not being able to escape it. At least the public smoking ban did alleviate this, which certainly can be spun as a net societal gain.
- donatj 8y agoWhen they come for my flavored pipe tobacco I am going to be so upset. At the rate things are going, it’s only a matter of time. No good do-gooders on a rampage to take away everything enjoyable in life.
- ebullientocelot 8y agoAll hail the nanny-state.
- drngdds 8y agoI think they just make it illegal to sell any tobacco.* The black market would not be an issue because smokers can get the same drug from e-cigarettes, which are almost certainly much safer. *Possession would still be legal, because punishing people for using drugs is dumb.
- leetcrew 8y agoi wouldn't be too sure; the people who support this measure seem to overlap with the people who also want to ban flavored ejuices. in my view, this is an inevitable consequence of the shift towards socialized medicine. when every human body is a financial liability for the government, you can expect it to get a lot more interested in how you treat your body. good alignment of incentives for public health, but terrible for individual liberty.
- bbarn 8y agoAs a 20 year smoker who's only been free for about 5 years, ban all of forms of nicotine for sale. For about a week or 2 people will freak out and try to find ways around it and then everyone will realize that it's not that hard. The reason smokers perpetually have problems quitting is other smokers are constantly around and it's ultra available. Sure, there's a few out there who will protest and scream about their right to kill themselves, but we don't need to allow companies to profit from selling addictive poison that has ZERO up side. At least alcohol is fun (for most people) to use. Cigarettes taste like trash, you have to force yourself to get addicted to them, they smell, and they kill. The only reason we won't outright ban them has nothing to do with liberty or freedoms, it's purely because the industry is incredibly profitable, and that's how our laws actually get made.
- rwmj 8y agoWould rather not create yet another crimewave linked to an illegal drug, so no thanks.
- mixmastamyk 8y agoIllegal to manufacture is not the same as illegal to posess.
- mrsteveman1 8y agoIllegal to manufacture just means the people who can legally possess it will have to deal with and buy it from people illegally manufacturing it under poor conditions with zero regulatory accountability. And some of them will get sick or die because of the prohibition on regulated manufacturing. We know that because there isn't an epidemic of people going blind and dying after drinking alcohol contaminated with fermentation and distillation byproducts, but there is an epidemic of people dying from using "heroin" tainted by fentanyl analogs. The only thing that has ever worked is legal regulated sale, which keeps the market sane with respect to quality control and safety, while making it easy for people to access health and addiction services.
- jayalpha 8y agoBanned in Germany already. A former German chancellor has a solution for you: https://www.thefix.com/content/former-german-chancellor-hoards-menthol-cigarettes91894?amp https://www.thefix.com/content/former-german-chancellor-hoar...
- black-tea 8y agoIt's banned in the EU, not just Germany. In fact, I'm surprised Germany doesn't have an exemption like it does with many other EU smoking laws. Germany is way behind with smoking. Smoking is cool in Germany. Smoking bars exist. Cigarette vending machines exist on every street corner in many parts of the country (and yes I mean every corner, meaning in suburbs, not just in town centres).
- GatorD42 8y agoReasoning backwards, if menthol cigarettes were illegal, would anyone support making them legal? I’m libertarian-ish esp with respect to drugs but I think this makes sense. At some point this harm reduction strategies will go too far but it hasn’t reached that point for me yet.
- leetcrew 8y agopeople don't tend to think harm reduction strategies have gone too far until the government starts targeting their vices. i don't smoke anymore, but it still makes me very uncomfortable to see the government take another step forward in regulating how people treat their own bodies. the government rarely takes a step back.
- anoncoward111 8y agoI am a food addict. I can't stop eating foods of all kinds. I am destroying my organs. Please ban food for everyone so that I can finally be my best self again.