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> The fall in fertility rate is not down to sperm counts or any of the things that normally come to mind when thinking of fertility. Instead it is being put dow

by dqpb 8y ago

> The fall in fertility rate is not down to sperm counts or any of the things that normally come to mind when thinking of fertility. Instead it is being put down to three key factors: - Fewer deaths in childhood meaning women have fewer babies - Greater access to contraception - More women in education and work In many ways, falling fertility rates are a success story.

raverbashing 8y ago
It's funny how both the "left" and the "right" love higher birth rates (they sell it as noble worries but it's usually for furthering their cause) when it doesn't make sense anymore in modern societies. There are too many people on the planet already, and most of them don't have a good quality of life. And more importantly, there isn't a way of significantly improving it (with today's technology and social/ethics understanding)
- heelhook 8y ago
  > most of them don't have a good quality of life What does that even mean? Are you implying most of “them” (whatever that might be) are lives not worth living thus “we” should put them out of their misery? > And more importantly, there isn't a way of significantly improving it (with today's technology and social/ethics understanding) Sources? Read Factfulness; you’ll be surprised at just how far of reality your view is!
- chronid 8y ago
  > There are too many people on the planet already I feel the reaction many people have about population decline in NA and EU is understandable (one may or may not share the concern though, that's personal): your tribe is making less children, the others do no seem to care. And they will replace your tribe in the future if you don't make children, it's a game of numbers in the end. NA and EU count very little in the great scheme of things from a population perspective [1] anyway - there are 5+ billion people in Asia and Africa (many in places that will be devastated by global warming), and those people aren't going to stop making babies any time soon. Are we going to force them to stop? How? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#/media/File:Population_Growth_by_World_Bank_continental_division.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#/media/File:P...
  - raverbashing 8y ago
    > and those people aren't going to stop making babies any time soon Actually, in Asia they are mostly stopping https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate India is 2.5ish already, China is below 2 Yes, there is reason to worry about decline and population replacement, at the same time, numbers are not all there is (especially when people are unhappy).
dgudkov 8y ago
>In many ways, falling fertility rates are a success story. Until they fall too low.
- gotocake 8y ago
  They’d have to go low across the whole planet, and stay low for a long time to be worrying given the billions of people alive today.
  - repolfx 8y ago
    That's what the article claims has happened.
  - dgudkov 8y ago
    TBH, I don't understand the argument about whole planet. Some nations (or species) can go extinct on their own, while the whole planet doing just fine.
- bklaasen 8y ago
  Imagine if the Earth's population fell to just two billion people over the course of a century. A century ago, the earth's population was two billion people.
  - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
    Then there would be 1.5 billion people above the age of 65 and 0.5 billion below it. That seems problematic. If you really wanted to get to 2 billion people, better to do it over a thousand years than a hundred. But is that actually good for anything? Having a hundred billion people would probably be problematic, but we seem to be doing alright with 7.5 (once we stop burning oil).
    - pgeorgi 8y ago
      If all 7.5 billion people want to live in the prosperity of upper-middle class US or North-Western Europe, that may be a problem: either because they get it (and the planet becomes inhospitable for mankind) or because there will be conflicts (see current migration issues) due to the inequality that is now broadcast by a world wide communication network. So one way to keep or raise the standard of living for everyone is to have fewer people consuming resources for it. The most humane way is voluntarily not creating new kids and hoping that this helps quickly enough.

by dqpb 8y ago

raverbashing 8y ago

It's funny how both the "left" and the "right" love higher birth rates (they sell it as noble worries but it's usually for furthering their cause) when it doesn't make sense anymore in modern societies. There are too many people on the planet already, and most of them don't have a good quality of life. And more importantly, there isn't a way of significantly improving it (with today's technology and social/ethics understanding)

heelhook 8y ago
> most of them don't have a good quality of life What does that even mean? Are you implying most of “them” (whatever that might be) are lives not worth living thus “we” should put them out of their misery? > And more importantly, there isn't a way of significantly improving it (with today's technology and social/ethics understanding) Sources? Read Factfulness; you’ll be surprised at just how far of reality your view is!
chronid 8y ago
> There are too many people on the planet already I feel the reaction many people have about population decline in NA and EU is understandable (one may or may not share the concern though, that's personal): your tribe is making less children, the others do no seem to care. And they will replace your tribe in the future if you don't make children, it's a game of numbers in the end. NA and EU count very little in the great scheme of things from a population perspective [1] anyway - there are 5+ billion people in Asia and Africa (many in places that will be devastated by global warming), and those people aren't going to stop making babies any time soon. Are we going to force them to stop? How? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#/media/File:Population_Growth_by_World_Bank_continental_division.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#/media/File:P...
- raverbashing 8y ago
  > and those people aren't going to stop making babies any time soon Actually, in Asia they are mostly stopping https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate India is 2.5ish already, China is below 2 Yes, there is reason to worry about decline and population replacement, at the same time, numbers are not all there is (especially when people are unhappy).

dgudkov 8y ago

>In many ways, falling fertility rates are a success story. Until they fall too low.

gotocake 8y ago
They’d have to go low across the whole planet, and stay low for a long time to be worrying given the billions of people alive today.
- repolfx 8y ago
  That's what the article claims has happened.
- dgudkov 8y ago
  TBH, I don't understand the argument about whole planet. Some nations (or species) can go extinct on their own, while the whole planet doing just fine.
bklaasen 8y ago
Imagine if the Earth's population fell to just two billion people over the course of a century. A century ago, the earth's population was two billion people.
- AnthonyMouse 8y ago
  Then there would be 1.5 billion people above the age of 65 and 0.5 billion below it. That seems problematic. If you really wanted to get to 2 billion people, better to do it over a thousand years than a hundred. But is that actually good for anything? Having a hundred billion people would probably be problematic, but we seem to be doing alright with 7.5 (once we stop burning oil).
  - pgeorgi 8y ago
    If all 7.5 billion people want to live in the prosperity of upper-middle class US or North-Western Europe, that may be a problem: either because they get it (and the planet becomes inhospitable for mankind) or because there will be conflicts (see current migration issues) due to the inequality that is now broadcast by a world wide communication network. So one way to keep or raise the standard of living for everyone is to have fewer people consuming resources for it. The most humane way is voluntarily not creating new kids and hoping that this helps quickly enough.