5 ms·

At my current institution a new lecturer got a chewing-out from the departmental chair because the pass rate in an introductory class was too low. The instituti

At my current institution a new lecturer got a chewing-out from the departmental chair because the pass rate in an introductory class was too low. The institution managed to keep enrollment constant but had to drop admission standards markedly this year to be able to do so. Other faculty members noticed the poor performance of the incoming freshman class compared to previous years as well. New kid came fresh from a PhD program at a credible university and thought the purpose of a university lecturer was to teach to a minimum standard. The naivete! This is at a large state school in the Southern US.

skh 8y ago
Ha. I've told new hires that one thing they must keep in mind is that this job is not about teaching.
- sevensor 8y ago
  I was fortunate (?) enough to have a Ph.D. advisor who told me flat-out: "Don't express an interest in teaching. It's career suicide. Undergraduates are stupid and you'll waste your time." It still bums me out, first of all that this is how a tenured professor thinks about undergraduates, and second that this is probably a clear-eyed and honest appraisal of the system as it stands. What exactly are we doing at big land-grant universities, if not trying to educate the young citizens of our state?
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    Change the system for professional program admissions, internships, masters, etc. If they depend on marks and references so much, resourceful students will focus on acquiring those.
- Sharlin 8y ago
  As Robin Hanson has said, school is not about learning [1]. Increasingly it feels that higher education is becoming a cargo cult, a coming-of-age ritual where you jump through certain hoops in order to be awarded a piece of paper which then gives you access to jobs. [1] http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/08/school-isnt-about-learning.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/08/school-isnt-about-lear...
  - shoguning 8y ago
    IMO there is a difference between K-12 and higher ed. K-12 is actually more about enforcing cultural norms of dilligence, punctuality and ideally some civic norms. Higher ed (paraphrasing Peter Thiel) is a mix between insurance and a tournament. It is _supposed_ to ensure a basic living standard. But it's also a competitive tournament where the high prestige colleges grant access to higher pay/prestige careers.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > Higher ed (paraphrasing Peter Thiel) is a mix between insurance and a tournament. It is _supposed_ to ensure a basic living standard. No, it's not.
      - shoguning 8y ago
        Whether it's supposed to or not, that's how it's viewed. Also viewed as an economic ladder by lots of people including low-income and minority.
    - Sharlin 8y ago
      Agreed that Hanson focuses on primary education in that article. I could've sworn he has written similarly about higher education but couldn't find anything relevant by quick googling.
      - WillPostForFood 8y ago
        Yeah, Hanson has similar thoughts on higher education: https://www.businessinsider.com/is-college-a-waste-of-time-and-money-bryan-caplan-2018-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/is-college-a-waste-of-time-a...
megachonker 8y ago
Is it a "top 10 public school" by chance?
MRD85 8y ago
I'm doing a CS degree currently and I'm somewhat amazed at how easy it is but also at how much the other students struggle. I do a bunch of extracurricular activities such as mathematics problem-solving seminars with two professors (there are only 4 students that attend and I'm not even a math major!), cyber CTF events, hobby projects, etc. These extra activities are making my learning far outpace my education and I really wish I was at a "harder" university. I've sort of reached a stage where the units themselves are formalities and just provide a framework where I build other knowledge. The majority of my class struggled with mathematical induction, which literally has two steps and is not designed to present a challenge. The C programming assignment that required a simple use of fork()? A major problem for a lot of people. I could go on and on about it. The only upside is that every single professor I've had seems to enjoy passing on knowledge when you're actually interested. I've had 500+ word replies to questions I've asked on the forums. I've had professors help me weeks after a unit has finished with problems that are only slightly related to what they taught. If you treat your university experience as an opportunity to learn and have exposure to brilliant people then it is really productive.

skh 8y ago

Ha. I've told new hires that one thing they must keep in mind is that this job is not about teaching.

sevensor 8y ago
I was fortunate (?) enough to have a Ph.D. advisor who told me flat-out: "Don't express an interest in teaching. It's career suicide. Undergraduates are stupid and you'll waste your time." It still bums me out, first of all that this is how a tenured professor thinks about undergraduates, and second that this is probably a clear-eyed and honest appraisal of the system as it stands. What exactly are we doing at big land-grant universities, if not trying to educate the young citizens of our state?
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  Change the system for professional program admissions, internships, masters, etc. If they depend on marks and references so much, resourceful students will focus on acquiring those.
Sharlin 8y ago
As Robin Hanson has said, school is not about learning [1]. Increasingly it feels that higher education is becoming a cargo cult, a coming-of-age ritual where you jump through certain hoops in order to be awarded a piece of paper which then gives you access to jobs. [1] http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/08/school-isnt-about-learning.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/08/school-isnt-about-lear...
- shoguning 8y ago
  IMO there is a difference between K-12 and higher ed. K-12 is actually more about enforcing cultural norms of dilligence, punctuality and ideally some civic norms. Higher ed (paraphrasing Peter Thiel) is a mix between insurance and a tournament. It is _supposed_ to ensure a basic living standard. But it's also a competitive tournament where the high prestige colleges grant access to higher pay/prestige careers.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Higher ed (paraphrasing Peter Thiel) is a mix between insurance and a tournament. It is _supposed_ to ensure a basic living standard. No, it's not.
    - shoguning 8y ago
      Whether it's supposed to or not, that's how it's viewed. Also viewed as an economic ladder by lots of people including low-income and minority.
  - Sharlin 8y ago
    Agreed that Hanson focuses on primary education in that article. I could've sworn he has written similarly about higher education but couldn't find anything relevant by quick googling.
    - WillPostForFood 8y ago
      Yeah, Hanson has similar thoughts on higher education: https://www.businessinsider.com/is-college-a-waste-of-time-and-money-bryan-caplan-2018-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/is-college-a-waste-of-time-a...

megachonker 8y ago

Is it a "top 10 public school" by chance?

MRD85 8y ago

I'm doing a CS degree currently and I'm somewhat amazed at how easy it is but also at how much the other students struggle. I do a bunch of extracurricular activities such as mathematics problem-solving seminars with two professors (there are only 4 students that attend and I'm not even a math major!), cyber CTF events, hobby projects, etc. These extra activities are making my learning far outpace my education and I really wish I was at a "harder" university. I've sort of reached a stage where the units themselves are formalities and just provide a framework where I build other knowledge. The majority of my class struggled with mathematical induction, which literally has two steps and is not designed to present a challenge. The C programming assignment that required a simple use of fork()? A major problem for a lot of people. I could go on and on about it. The only upside is that every single professor I've had seems to enjoy passing on knowledge when you're actually interested. I've had 500+ word replies to questions I've asked on the forums. I've had professors help me weeks after a unit has finished with problems that are only slightly related to what they taught. If you treat your university experience as an opportunity to learn and have exposure to brilliant people then it is really productive.