12 ms·
Sprint Is Throttling Skype, Study Finds
- hyperrail 8y agoAlso see the researchers' own page: https://dd.meddle.mobi/USStats.html https://dd.meddle.mobi/USStats.html
- andrewflnr 8y agoHas there been more Bloomberg on the front page since the SuperMicro thing, or am I just noticing it more?
- slededit 8y agoI think you are noticing it more. It’s always been a popular source here.
- exabrial 8y agoDoes Skype still do the supernode p2p architecture?
- ComputerGuru 8y agoNo, that was phased out when they merged infrastructures with Microsoft’s existing, post-merge.
- intralizee 8y agoAnyone know why they phased that out? Seems like a performance benefit and not many downsides I can think about warranting removal.
- TazeTSchnitzel 8y agoMobile devices get hot and have bad battery life if they become supernodes, and are obviously not reliable.
- codebje 8y agoThe massive rise of carrier grade NATs perhaps.
- jetrink 8y agoA series of headlines: 2009 - NSA offering 'billions' for Skype eavesdrop solution [1] 2011 - Microsoft buys Skype for $8.5 billion. Why, exactly? [2] 2012 - Skype replaces P2P supernodes with Linux boxes hosted by Microsoft [3] 2013 - Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages Subhead: Skype worked to enable Prism collection of video calls [4] 1. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/12/nsa_offers_billions_for_skype_pwnage/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/12/nsa_offers_billions... 2. https://www.wired.com/2011/05/microsoft-buys-skype-2/ https://www.wired.com/2011/05/microsoft-buys-skype-2/ 3. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/skype-replaces-p2p-supernodes-with-linux-boxes-hosted-by-microsoft/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/skype... 4. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-...
- toomuchtodo 8y agoScaling. https://www.zdnet.com/article/skype-ditched-peer-to-peer-supernodes-for-scalability-not-surveillance/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/skype-ditched-peer-to-peer-sup... https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/2013/06/sort/time_rev/page/1/entry/6:271/20130623090855:0B714E0A-DC06-11E2-9F35-8CD4CCA160A2/ https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/2013/06/sort/time...
- ocdtrekkie 8y agoDefinitely is about mobile, where users' devices are frequently not actively running the app at the same time. Skype used to have a ton of issues with certain features requiring both parties be online. For instance, since it was peer-to-peer, sharing pictures and/or file attachments would fail if you weren't online at the same time as the other person, and of course, you were subject to the their upload speed for you (and each other person in a chatroom) to download it.
- Fellshard 8y agoNot that it's any more reliable now.
- tinus_hn 8y agoIt’s an innovation covered by the Virnetx patent. The same happened with Apple FaceTime.
- joncrocks 8y agoAs far as I understand, Skype never owned the IP around the P2P solution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype_Technologies#P2P_licensing_dispute_lawsuit_and_IPO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype_Technologies#P2P_licensi...
- orbitingpluto 8y agoWhich happened to coincide with my last decent Skype call.
- sova 8y agoPrecisely
- blinko12 8y agoWhat are the current net neutrality rules in the US? Can they really do this, or is anyone (maybe in some states like California) regulating them?
- JustSomeNobody 8y agoI sure hope the FTC does something about this!
- brownbat 8y agoAnother agency, the FCC, was founded on the premise that we need to ensure some communicators don't degrade the communications of others unintentionally. Spectrum needs management. It's funny we lack the same conviction when ITCs actively degrade each other...
- welder 8y agoWhat's an ITC?
- brownbat 8y agoI meant something like "information and communications technology company," but apparently made up a new acronym that doesn't even match to that. Sorry for the confusion, ITC is not a thing, except in international trade contexts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_and_communications_technology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_and_communicatio...
- WillPostForFood 8y agoWith Democrats in control of the House, they can pass Net Neutrality and put some pressure on the Senate. Or package in with a spending deal.
- aberoham 8y agoMy Zoom meetings via CenturyLink have become progressively worse since Net Neutrality bit the dust. Anyone else feel the same?
- bitexploder 8y agoUse Zoom a lot. Haven’t noticed anything. Have Fiber if it matters.
- metildaa 8y agoCenturylink has mediocre peering via IPv4, but decent peering via IPv6 (which seems to be caused by peering with Hurricane Electric on IPv6 only).
- toast0 8y agoI've noticed they don't seem to interconnect very effectively at the Seattle exchange at least for IPv4, I'll have to try v6 as well; thanks for the tip. in v4, I see a lot of things like go through Seattle to San Jose or Chicago and then back to Seattle. :(
- metildaa 8y agoYep, purposefully shit peering on IPv4 causes that.
- bitexploder 8y agoCenturyLink seems to be a huge mess. They have at least 4 or 5 login pages. They seem to have acquired a bunch of smaller ISPs and not quite consolidated yet.
- metildaa 8y agoEh, its a company that is rapidly shrinking in most areas. Customers are leaving, and in areas they deploy fiber there is no maintenance tto be done
- fjsolwmv 8y agoDoes Sprint sell video chat? I don't understand the anticompetitveness angle. Voice calls are free on cell phone networks, and Skype users pay for data. How would Sprint profit from giving its users a bad Skype experience? Something doesn't add up.
- soohyung 8y agoIf they throttle high-bandwidth applications they can provide less bandwidth and save money, I'm not surprised at all this is happening now that net neutrality is out the window.
- aaaaaaaaaab 8y ago>Voice calls are free on cell phone networks Since when?
- dboreham 8y agoSince in the USA. Assuming you already need to pay for data. And don't want to make voice calls to other countries.
- vinay427 8y agoWhat? There are lots of plans in the US with data that don't have unlimited calling.
- dboreham 8y agoI bet they exist somewhere but a quick survey of prepaid/budget services (Cricket, Straighttalk, USMobile, ...) shows that they all bundle unlimited calling with any plan that has data. All the major post paid carriers have been on unlimited calling plans for many years.
- i_feel_great 8y agoAustralia <-> India Skype has become awful for us in the last 6 months or so. Does anyone know if this is related?
- raincom 8y agoSprint is a mobile network operator in the states. I don't think it is related to your issue.
- dsl 8y agoSprint is a telecommunications company, not just a mobile operator. They actually operate a 100G backbone between Australia and India (Perth to Mumbai via the SWE3 cable), so grand-parents question isn't that unreasonable. https://www.sprint.net/images/network_maps/full/Global-Global-IP.png https://www.sprint.net/images/network_maps/full/Global-Globa...
- callumjones 8y agoDo they or is it just indirect via a consortium? Looking at this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEA-ME-WE_3 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEA-ME-WE_3 it doesn’t look to be directly managed by Sprint.
- dsl 8y agoAlmost all undersea cables are owned by consortiums that are responsible for installation and ongoing maintenance. Telecoms like Sprint or Level 3 buy fiber pairs and run the gear on each end.
- Paraesthetic 8y agoYes, something in india is limiting your connection most likely. Whether it be network speeds or something else, the servers in Australia are super fast
- _nalply 8y agoYou can test for it by sending typical files over http (aka download) and then skyping and compare the bandwidth. Or the other way round. Run a few tests over a few days. This won't tell you whether Sprint is behind this, however you will be able to know whether Skype is affected. If yes, you could try to tunnel the Skype traffic over ssh. If ssh traffic is not throttled you should experience better throughputs.
- codezero 8y agoI’m a sprint customer and the throttling is so overt I’m surprised it took any amount of stuff to spot it.
- j45 8y agoSince Skype left its p2p roots, has it ever had enough bandwidth?
- qyz721 8y agoUsing a SIM card on a recent trip to Mexico, where net neutrality was never a thing, was really interesting. Cell service plans come with separate tariffs for regular data and "social" data, which works only in the walled garden of Facebook, WhatsApp, Snapchat, Insta, etc., and the "social" data is much cheaper. Even though the positive reinforcement was not as draconian as stuff like this, where they're obviously trying to dissuade use, it was still pretty creepy.
- KKKKkkkk1 8y agoSounds like the mobile companies got Facebook to subsidize consumers' phone bills. Is that good or bad for everyone involved?
- fwn 8y agoAs access to competing services gets heterogeneous, it's certainly bad for every potential competitor.
- AnthonyMouse 8y ago> As access to competing services gets heterogeneous, it's certainly bad for every potential competitor. And then for all the customers, as the incumbents having established a moat can become increasingly abusive.
- viraptor 8y agoUnfortunately we're unlikely to know if it's: - cheaper social - more expensive non-social - combination of those two I really don't expect it's the first option, unless they're really in a race to the bottom. The third option makes sense even without subsidies - offer something "nice" to typical customers and offset it with other traffic.
- konschubert 8y agoThere is no actual difference between those three options. The only thing that matters is that Whatsapp messenger is cheaper to use than, for example, signal messenger.
- filmgirlcw 8y agoSprint is legit garbage, but it is worth noting that even under Wheeler, Net Neutrality rules have never applied to mobile networks. It’s a big reason many of us were disappointed with the legislation even when it was passed. I’d rather have something than nothing, but mobile carriers have always been expent from NN.
- supertrope 8y agoFYI v1 of NN excluded cellular. Verizon et al sued and the appeals court ruled in their favor. v2 NN was based on a more solid legal foundation of common carrier classification and did not exclude cellular. Thus VZ got tougher rules for their trouble. Until of course Trump won and the FCC reversed itself. NN was a FCC rule, not legislation.
- dawnerd 8y agoTmobile made this clear to me too when I complained about their older zero-rating policy at the time. It was highly unfair to smaller companies without the means to implement their standards for video.
- toomuchtodo 8y agoT-mobile customer here who supports zero rating. Their standards are extremely straight forward to implement to zero rate, and there is minimal burden to implement. This was my experience simply as a facilitator to enable a public radio station I enjoy to be zero rated.
- dragonwriter 8y ago> Sprint is legit garbage, but it is worth noting that even under Wheeler, Net Neutrality rules have never applied to mobile networks This is simply false. In the 2010 Title I regs, much lighter net neutrality rules were applied to mobile broadband than were applied to fixed broadband; in the 2015 Title II regs essentially the same rules applied to fixed broadband were applied to mobile.
- LoSboccacc 8y agoalso worth nothing this study doesn't compare period before and after legislation change, making the whole jab at the administration without merit. sure, dropping the legislation it didn't help, but this is not how you you reach conclusions in scientific research.
- User23 8y agoDid anyone else see this headline and hope for an anti-scrum rant?
- sova 8y agoWell Microsoft changed the underlying p2pness of skype so I can't blame Sprint for throttling that laggy buggy inconsistent network topology ineptly and inaptly still referred to as "Skype" R.I.P.
- newsbinator 8y agoNot that it's Skype's fault they're getting throttled, but I wish I had an alternative to Skype. I haven't found a service that lets me dial worldwide (particularly USA/Canada) at anywhere near the rates Skype offers.
- chmars 8y agoDo you really still need to dial? Haven’t all the persons you call a computer (smartphone!) with free VoIP capabilities?
- newsbinator 8y agoIn North America, it's unusual to ask for a business person's WhatsApp or Telegram or whatever. These contacts are not often published or shared for work. It's more common to receive their landline extension or cell phone number. When establishing a business relationship, saving a few cents by trying to figure out mutual VoIP options isn't worth the friction and lost opportunities.
- artemisbot 8y agoAren't Whatsapp and telegram both tied to your cell phone number though?
- et-al 8y agoThe use case is: traveler in _______ country uses Skype to call local numbers. Be it a local restaurant, or a new business contact.
- et-al 8y agoIt's very possible people are calling relatives or friends whose landline offers a more reliable connection than their internet. And if having a conversation, I'd rather have an uninterrupted voice conversation than a mediocre video call that drops every 3 minutes.
- Tor3 8y ago
- edoo 8y agoI've used Sprint before. It almost seems like all websites are throttled.
- sonnyblarney 8y agoTip of the iceberg. Carriers see communication services as their turf, and they go to byzantine lengths to protect that. Politically it can get funny. If you work at a handset manufacturer, and sit in on sales calls, and one of your team members brings up anything remotely related to this or VOIP, you might see the carrier buyers get visibly upset and literally walk out of the room. I could never tell if they were 'actually' upset, or 'pretend professionally' upset. But it's funny the games that are played.
- giancarlostoro 8y agoYou know what upsets me is that I can call people on my phone and the audio quality is terrible if they're not on the same carrier (T-Mobile in the USA). I had to tell my friend to just call me on Skype the next time cause it's always a struggle to hear them clearly over the phone. I can't believe that my carrier has "HD Calling" but everyone else sounds like the calls being patched through a sewage pipe.
- brazzledazzle 8y agoI doubt it’s any consolation but I have the same carrier and don’t have that problem. I used to be really frustrated with a few things a few years back but thinking back on it they’ve improved a lot since. The only thing that still bothers me is the coverage. It’s usually fantastic where I live/work and outside of that it’s ok to great with really rare dead spots. To their credit it used to be non-existent/terrible to great.
- josho 8y agoThat is the single biggest driver for me to dabble with alternative calling apps like FaceTime audio. The carriers in their inability to cooperate to improve call quality is pushing their customers to the alternatives they fear most.
- bobwaycott 8y agoThis. I default to FaceTime audio calls over direct phone calls with fellow iPhone owners. Crystal-clear every time. T-Mobile call quality is completely awful.
- TangoTrotFox 8y agoOne thing most people do not understand is that the former net neutrality rules did not prohibit throttling, in and of itself. Every rule and clause in the net neutrality bill has a little clause following "Though shall not [...] except for reasonable network management." What's "reasonable network management"? 400+ pages and it was not well defined. It's something that would be decided on a case-by-case basis. But ultimately if any carrier could create a compelling argument that some service was causing undue congestion on their network, they had complete freedom to throttle it. As an aside you'll note that now, and then, when companies are found to be doing they'll immediately scream "reasonable network management." Search for sprint "reasonable network management" and you'll get years of results such as [1][2][3]. Give them a cut of the profits and suddenly that congestion would be considered much more reasonable - a la Netflix/Comcast. [1] - https://www.sprint.com/en/legal/legal-regulatory-and-consumer-resources.html https://www.sprint.com/en/legal/legal-regulatory-and-consume... [2] - https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/10/nonprofit-groups-say-sprint-will-unfairly-throttle-data-after-wimax-shutdown/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/10/nonpr... [3] - https://civsourceonline.com/2015/10/15/sprint-sued-by-non-profits-over-clearwire-lease-for-wimax/ https://civsourceonline.com/2015/10/15/sprint-sued-by-non-pr...
- vectorEQ 8y agothe services named are all quite high bandwidth compared to regular websites. can it not be that this is automated throttling to prevent congestion on parts of the networks?
- finleymedia 8y agoThis is key - "The researchers bought a Sprint wireless plan to try to detect throttling of Skype in the lab, but couldn’t replicate the experience of the Wehe app users. This is likely because it affects only certain subscription plans, but not the one the researchers purchased, they said." One app is saying this is occurring without anyone being able to duplicate the claim in a lab. Bloomberg could do better by getting a second source.
- warriormonk5 8y agoThey might just be confusing that with sprint being an awful network in general.
- legohead 8y agoAll the carriers say straight on their website they are throttling you. Want HD video? Have to pay for the upgraded super version or whatever.