5 ms·

This seems to be part of a bigger trend. Do you feel a bit of pain? Unacceptable. We got to make it go away. Medicate it until you don't feel a thing. Could y

by 21 8y ago

This seems to be part of a bigger trend. Do you feel a bit of pain? Unacceptable. We got to make it go away. Medicate it until you don't feel a thing. Could your kid scrape a knee on the playing ground? Unacceptable, wrap it all in rubber. Could you be offended by some text in a classic book? Unacceptable. Trigger warning, counseling on hand, feel free to skip it or read it together with a group in a safe space. Something someone said makes you feel funny? Unacceptable. Report, protest, de-platform.

umvi 8y ago
No one likes to hear "too bad, deal with it" as the response to their perceived problem, but I'm afraid we as a society are losing the essential skill of "dealing with" accidents, injustices, or just plain bad luck in favor or making someone else shoulder the blame.
- candiodari 8y ago
  Alternative explanation: the quality of care has been declining, for instance because of the ridiculously higher administrative spending in healthcare. And the thing about painkillers is that they "fix" (to the patients' satisfaction) a hell of a lot of problems ... while bringing in extra money for the doctor and hospital. Any incompetent doctor, or just one that doesn't get the time to diagnose (administrators need to be paid, and that's justified by "productivity" of doctors. Productivity mostly means faster diagnoses. One very effective way to do that, of course, is just to make incomplete diagnoses) Secondly giving a painkiller is almost never a stupidly wrong decision (unlike taking out a kidney that then in a biopsy turns out to be fully healthy, regardless of how many symptoms matched). So it's ALSO low risk ! And I assure you, there are no words in the universe that cause administrators to drool half as much as the words "low risk". Didn't we want market-based medicine ? Well, this is one instance where the market based choice is blatantly obvious. Secondly I fear like now we're seeing the opposite reaction: people are acting against patients that have chronic pain and would not be able to function without constant painkillers. These patients will go back to self-medication (ie. alcohol and/or cocaine, both "decent" painkillers) like people did 50 years ago. It is not a good evolution to replace morphine with alcohol or cocaine.
- freedomben 8y ago
  I agree, although I think it is important to keep in mind that everyone has different levels at which "deal with it" is appropriate. I've heard people say that about patients fresh out of back surgery, which I find to be ludicrous. I think this should be something between only a person and their doctor.
- timeseries2018 8y ago
  Eventually, the economy will crash, or at least the cheap energy will run out, and then people will be forced to get tough again.
- watwut 8y ago
  Just "dealing with" injustices is enabling injustice through. And I am fully willing to help people in accident or bad luck assuming they will help me in bad luck.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  Losing it? I personally doubt we had it in the first place. Just look at the rich and very not new history of scapegoating. Blame the victim rather than admit a problem. Leprosy is a result of your sin. Smallpox however is blameless because it could happen to anyone. Lash out at the vulnerable rather than the source of the problem. Survival bias is what leads to the perception of this lost golden era. Where all of the pioneer's children are healthy without doctors - nevermind the graves of the seven children and two other wives. We didn't have PTSD before WW1 just ignore all of the self medicating civil war veterans. This tendency isn't a moral component so much as a result of exposure and memory. Possibly a survival bias itself that remembering everything would be really bad for mental health.
- thomasz 8y ago
  You have never experienced real pain.
neffy 8y ago
"The two doctors made no secret of who they blamed for “this preventable cause of death and disability”. “It’s about money. Money has influence, and it influenced the joint commission,” said Lucas." See also: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/29/health/purdue-opioids-oxycontin.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/29/health/purdue-opioids-oxy... And: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexmorrell/2015/07/01/the-oxycontin-clan-the-14-billion-newcomer-to-forbes-2015-list-of-richest-u-s-families/#27608d3175e0 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexmorrell/2015/07/01/the-oxyc...
talltimtom 8y ago
Counterpoint from Denmark that has the same movements of “wrap your kid in bubble wrap” and “it’s offensive to wear sombreros”, we don’t see an overuse of opioids or penecilum because the medical system isn’t for profit and you aren’t a customer, you are a patient. Show up saying you feel a flu coming on and would like some penicillin to curb it? The doctor will laugh at you and tell you to come back when you visibly sick, and even then she’ll tell you to just try sleeping it off. Only as a last resort do they actually prescribe harder drugs. Also, you need prescriptions even for larger packs of ibuprofen and paracetamol. The issue in USA really seems to me to be drive in large by the fact that people are customes who want drugs and doctors are salespeople who want to sell drugs. With opioids it just so happens that the legal barrier got lowered enough that everyone who wanted it for all the wrong reasons could justify buying it anyway, and then they did.
- arkades 8y ago
  We don’t make money by prescribing drugs. Those of us on risk sharing contracts - most of us, directly or indirectly, to a greater or lesser extent - lose money by prescribing drugs. Your comment has little factual basis.
  - k_sh 8y ago
    The patients don't, but doctors[0][1][2][3][4] and drug manufacturers[5][6][7] and distributors[8] do. [0]: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/11/health/prescription-opioid-payments-eprise/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/11/health/prescription-opioi... [1]: https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/strategy/doctor-tied-insys-opioid-kickback-probe-gets-prison-term https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/strategy/doctor-tied-insy... [2]: http://www.waff.com/2018/08/22/doctors-indicted-overprescribing-opioids-kickbacks/ http://www.waff.com/2018/08/22/doctors-indicted-overprescrib... [3]: https://www.kansascity.com/latest-news/article214834685.html https://www.kansascity.com/latest-news/article214834685.html [4]: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/opioids-doctors-prescriptions-payments/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/opioids-d... [5]: https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/9/7/17831710/richard-sackler-opioid-epidemic-buprenorphine https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/9/7/17831710/ric... [6]: https://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/06/mayors_join_lawsuit_alleging_b.html https://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/06/mayors_join_... [7]: https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2018-05-16/6-more-states-sue-opioid-manufacturers-for-nationwide-epidemic https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2018-05-16/6-m... [8]: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/09/opioid-crisis-responsibility-profits/538938/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/09/opioid-...
T4NG 8y ago
These arent the same issue, though I agree we shouldnt take medication lightly for depression or pain but there still exists a massive industry specialized for american consumers to have these products pushed on them from all angles.
draw_down 8y ago
Come on.
emersonrsantos 8y ago
This isn't new. The "sanatorium" concept was lost somewhere in the 20th century. The sanatorium idea was the cure by the gradual restoration of health. Today is almost medication every time. Zero to little attention to physical and mental health restoration. It's like plastic surgery.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  We have that still when called for - it is called rehab. Medicines fix things as well in many cases - at times far less gradual.
Retra 8y ago
It's hypocritical that you don't just accept this as the way it is and move on.

by 21 8y ago

umvi 8y ago

No one likes to hear "too bad, deal with it" as the response to their perceived problem, but I'm afraid we as a society are losing the essential skill of "dealing with" accidents, injustices, or just plain bad luck in favor or making someone else shoulder the blame.

candiodari 8y ago
Alternative explanation: the quality of care has been declining, for instance because of the ridiculously higher administrative spending in healthcare. And the thing about painkillers is that they "fix" (to the patients' satisfaction) a hell of a lot of problems ... while bringing in extra money for the doctor and hospital. Any incompetent doctor, or just one that doesn't get the time to diagnose (administrators need to be paid, and that's justified by "productivity" of doctors. Productivity mostly means faster diagnoses. One very effective way to do that, of course, is just to make incomplete diagnoses) Secondly giving a painkiller is almost never a stupidly wrong decision (unlike taking out a kidney that then in a biopsy turns out to be fully healthy, regardless of how many symptoms matched). So it's ALSO low risk ! And I assure you, there are no words in the universe that cause administrators to drool half as much as the words "low risk". Didn't we want market-based medicine ? Well, this is one instance where the market based choice is blatantly obvious. Secondly I fear like now we're seeing the opposite reaction: people are acting against patients that have chronic pain and would not be able to function without constant painkillers. These patients will go back to self-medication (ie. alcohol and/or cocaine, both "decent" painkillers) like people did 50 years ago. It is not a good evolution to replace morphine with alcohol or cocaine.
freedomben 8y ago
I agree, although I think it is important to keep in mind that everyone has different levels at which "deal with it" is appropriate. I've heard people say that about patients fresh out of back surgery, which I find to be ludicrous. I think this should be something between only a person and their doctor.
timeseries2018 8y ago
Eventually, the economy will crash, or at least the cheap energy will run out, and then people will be forced to get tough again.
watwut 8y ago
Just "dealing with" injustices is enabling injustice through. And I am fully willing to help people in accident or bad luck assuming they will help me in bad luck.
Nasrudith 8y ago
Losing it? I personally doubt we had it in the first place. Just look at the rich and very not new history of scapegoating. Blame the victim rather than admit a problem. Leprosy is a result of your sin. Smallpox however is blameless because it could happen to anyone. Lash out at the vulnerable rather than the source of the problem. Survival bias is what leads to the perception of this lost golden era. Where all of the pioneer's children are healthy without doctors - nevermind the graves of the seven children and two other wives. We didn't have PTSD before WW1 just ignore all of the self medicating civil war veterans. This tendency isn't a moral component so much as a result of exposure and memory. Possibly a survival bias itself that remembering everything would be really bad for mental health.
thomasz 8y ago
You have never experienced real pain.

neffy 8y ago

"The two doctors made no secret of who they blamed for “this preventable cause of death and disability”. “It’s about money. Money has influence, and it influenced the joint commission,” said Lucas." See also: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/29/health/purdue-opioids-oxycontin.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/29/health/purdue-opioids-oxy... And: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexmorrell/2015/07/01/the-oxycontin-clan-the-14-billion-newcomer-to-forbes-2015-list-of-richest-u-s-families/#27608d3175e0 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexmorrell/2015/07/01/the-oxyc...

talltimtom 8y ago

Counterpoint from Denmark that has the same movements of “wrap your kid in bubble wrap” and “it’s offensive to wear sombreros”, we don’t see an overuse of opioids or penecilum because the medical system isn’t for profit and you aren’t a customer, you are a patient. Show up saying you feel a flu coming on and would like some penicillin to curb it? The doctor will laugh at you and tell you to come back when you visibly sick, and even then she’ll tell you to just try sleeping it off. Only as a last resort do they actually prescribe harder drugs. Also, you need prescriptions even for larger packs of ibuprofen and paracetamol. The issue in USA really seems to me to be drive in large by the fact that people are customes who want drugs and doctors are salespeople who want to sell drugs. With opioids it just so happens that the legal barrier got lowered enough that everyone who wanted it for all the wrong reasons could justify buying it anyway, and then they did.

arkades 8y ago
We don’t make money by prescribing drugs. Those of us on risk sharing contracts - most of us, directly or indirectly, to a greater or lesser extent - lose money by prescribing drugs. Your comment has little factual basis.
- k_sh 8y ago
  The patients don't, but doctors[0][1][2][3][4] and drug manufacturers[5][6][7] and distributors[8] do. [0]: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/11/health/prescription-opioid-payments-eprise/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/11/health/prescription-opioi... [1]: https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/strategy/doctor-tied-insys-opioid-kickback-probe-gets-prison-term https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/strategy/doctor-tied-insy... [2]: http://www.waff.com/2018/08/22/doctors-indicted-overprescribing-opioids-kickbacks/ http://www.waff.com/2018/08/22/doctors-indicted-overprescrib... [3]: https://www.kansascity.com/latest-news/article214834685.html https://www.kansascity.com/latest-news/article214834685.html [4]: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/opioids-doctors-prescriptions-payments/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/opioids-d... [5]: https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/9/7/17831710/richard-sackler-opioid-epidemic-buprenorphine https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/9/7/17831710/ric... [6]: https://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/06/mayors_join_lawsuit_alleging_b.html https://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/06/mayors_join_... [7]: https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2018-05-16/6-more-states-sue-opioid-manufacturers-for-nationwide-epidemic https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2018-05-16/6-m... [8]: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/09/opioid-crisis-responsibility-profits/538938/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/09/opioid-...

T4NG 8y ago

These arent the same issue, though I agree we shouldnt take medication lightly for depression or pain but there still exists a massive industry specialized for american consumers to have these products pushed on them from all angles.

draw_down 8y ago

Come on.

emersonrsantos 8y ago

This isn't new. The "sanatorium" concept was lost somewhere in the 20th century. The sanatorium idea was the cure by the gradual restoration of health. Today is almost medication every time. Zero to little attention to physical and mental health restoration. It's like plastic surgery.

Nasrudith 8y ago
We have that still when called for - it is called rehab. Medicines fix things as well in many cases - at times far less gradual.

Retra 8y ago

It's hypocritical that you don't just accept this as the way it is and move on.