6 ms·

> Soldered, non-serviceable, non-upgradeable storage and RAM is a serious bummer on a $1,200+ laptop. I don't mind the RAM. There's only two options upfront: 8

by js2 8y ago

> Soldered, non-serviceable, non-upgradeable storage and RAM is a serious bummer on a $1,200+ laptop. I don't mind the RAM. There's only two options upfront: 8GB and 16GB and I know what I need. The non-serviceable storage however, even with the Thunderbolt 3 ports for external storage (because who wants external storage on a laptop), is a bummer. I just recently upgraded an 11" Air from 128 GB SSD to 1 TB SSD. It seems that storage demands only go up over time; that's much less so the case with RAM or CPU these days.

jandrese 8y ago
Also, after the fans the storage is the most random (not from abuse) failure prone part on most laptops. Well, I guess the keyboard on the MBPs might edge it out if you don't count "not only using it in a cleanroom" as abuse. It has been getting better as people work the bugs out of their SSD controllers, but it does mean the whole laptop is garbage if the MLC flash chip craps out.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  Someone will realize they can create a business around hot-airing MLC flash chips from otherwise working logic boards.
ww520 8y ago
The soldered RAM is really bad, making adding RAM impossible. I get it. They want you to buy a new Mac every couple years. It's really annoying. I've considered adding SDXC 512GB card to the SDXC slot to expand storage, less thing to lug around than an external Thunderbolt drive.
- balladeer 8y ago
  So can I just use the card reader slot (mid 2012 MBA) to boot it on one that has a faulty storage (died after 4 yrs) instead of going for the costly flash drive replacement?
  - ww520 8y ago
    Not sure whether booting work. Might need to check the boss bios. I know people use it to store VM images and run them off the flash disk.
- bunderbunder 8y ago
  I'm pretty ambivalent about the RAM thing. The CPUs they're using don't support more than 16GB of RAM, anyway, and I'd guess that nobody who both cares and has the tech knowledge to be likely to upgrade RAM is going to be buying the 8GB model in the first place. For me, the deeper problem there is, why should I be feeling anguish about being able to upgrade them memory in a (non desktop replacement) latpop in the first place? 20 years ago, when we were collectively trying to squeeze more and more out of personal computers at a fairly decent clip, it made some sense. At this point, though, things have tapered off outside of a few special cases like large-scale data crunching and serious gaming, neither of which was ever really a primary use case for Macs in the first place. What's left for reasons why you might need ever more RAM are things that feel kind of silly. On my personal computer, the big RAM suckers in recent memory have been ad-heavy news websites and (bafflingly) the Slack desktop app. In both cases, I'm pretty sure the reason why they get away with sucking more and more RAM is that we're rolling over and buying more RAM instead of putting some more pressure on software developers about being wasteful. I rather wish Grace Hopper were still around to give a memory consumption version of her "nanoseconds" lecture.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - 2muchcoffeeman 8y ago
    Well Slack is an electronjs app. I think developers are still chasing the ‘write once run anywhere’ Holy Grail. This time it’s JavaScript.
    - bunderbunder 8y ago
      Running in Electron accounts for a few tens of megabytes, tops. I'm not convinced it's really all that much worse than the runtime environments for popular interpreted and managed languages. The other 2-3GB (I'm not even kidding) seemed to be a result of keeping a copy every single attachment and Giphy image that anyone posts in memory, indefinitely. Like with any good memory leak, the solution was to bounce the application. I use vscode quite a bit, and it doesn't eat RAM in a way that seems reminiscent of what people like to blame on Electron apps. Perhaps what we like to lay at the feet of Electron is more appropriately blamed on there being a lot of JavaScript developers who haven't been sufficiently educated in how to manage memory.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  FYI: there’s some handy form-fitting microSD-SD adapters that install flush or with a small tab. Just don’t insert them into a non-Mac, you’ll have a fun time pulling them out. Just a couple dollars from Asia from your favourite online auction house.
  - spronkey 8y ago
    Ain't no SD card slot on the 2018 Air.
    - Scoundreller 8y ago
      Boo-urns.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  RAM I mind less than SSD as SSDs wear and have a habit of failing. A mobo swap at 4 years is going to be a hellishly expensive way of fixing a failed SSD. Clearly they want to make it too expensive to be worthwhile. At least RAM is likely to be good as long as the rest of the system.
pentae 8y ago
Another reason for the big song and dance about how environmentally friendly they are with recycled aluminium and so on. It stops Greenpeace and other groups shaming them for the environmentally unfriendly practice of creating products that are not repairable or upgradable which obviously shortens its usable lifespan causing more co2 emissions from people going through more devices. Under Cooks leadership they are doing everything they can to squeeze every last dollar from their customer base in a masterclass of price, strategy and product positioning and the supposed value proposition (touchbar, etc) is often dubious at best.
- balladeer 8y ago
  I wonder if it's due to the trend that the sales and new user acquisition are stagnating so they are just locking the "loyal" user-base so tight that they should keep paying regular amounts in the form of costly repairs and extremely costly upgrades as some kind of ecosystem rent. Because I all I see is dwindling value, more so if compared to increasing prices.
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  According to their latest report their maintenance costs are declining quite quickly. This implies the lifespan of their devices is lengthening. Lifespan isn't just about repairability, if something doesn't fail then you don't need to take it apart.
  - pentae 8y ago
    Or it could mean that the average maintenance cost is so high the customers are opting not to repair but to buy a new device.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  I thought the aluminum had more to do with being conductive to heat, and allowing for thinner devices. The “non-repairability” does mean old units get harvested for parts instead of scrapped for aluminum. When I’m ready to upgrade, i’ve Sold the still-usable parts and funded a substantial cost of buying the new version.
mortenjorck 8y ago
I wonder… I can kind of understand, at least when space is at such a premium as it is in a MacBook Air, soldering everything onto a single logic board. But why not allow that logic board to be upgraded? While it would be very un-Apple to offer upgrade kits to end users, I could very easily see the company offering upgrades as a Genius service (maybe also selling the parts to authorized service providers). You’d go to an Apple store, pay the upgrade price for a logic board with more storage or RAM (or a faster CPU), come back in an hour or two, and your MacBook would be waiting for you with the upgrade. It could be a huge green PR coup for Apple, as well as a way to drive post-sale revenue.
- Wowfunhappy 8y ago
  Labor is expensive. Even just standard non-upgrade repairs are extremely expensive for Apple products, if you don't have some type of warranty (extended or otherwise).
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  For the previous MacBook airs, logic boards were usually interchangeable. One could change their 2gb logic board for a 4gb. 3rd parties should be able to do it.
- simonh 8y ago
  There’s only one logic board design fir the Airs, in two configurations just fur storage. They’d have to design and manufacture new board configurations just for upgraders. No way that could ever be economical.
rando444 8y ago
If you don't mind me asking, can you share the 1TB SSD you chose? I have an 11" that I would be interested in upgrading, but was unaware there were compatible parts like that.
- bydo 8y ago
  The only third part SSD vendor I’m aware of is OWC: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/macbook-air/2013-2014-2015 https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/macbook-air/2013-201...
  - js2 8y ago
    Sintech makes an adapter that allows you to use a variety of NVMe drives. They have a few versions of the adapter. I used this one: http://eshop.sintech.cn/ngff-m2-pcie-ssd-card-as-2013-2014-2015-macbook-ssd-p-1229.html http://eshop.sintech.cn/ngff-m2-pcie-ssd-card-as-2013-2014-2...
- js2 8y ago
  I used the Sintech ST-NGFF2013-C adapter[0] which I think I ordered from eBay and a Samsung 970 EVO 1TB[1]. I have a MacBook Air (11-inch, Early 2015). I used this tool kit[2]. You _must_ upgrade the Mac to High Sierra or Mojave before doing this. The upgrade to High Sierra upgrades the boot firmware adding NVMe support. I made sure my Mac was upgraded and had a time machine backup. I then installed the new SSD, booted from a USB flash drive with the Mojave installer, formatted the drive with Disk Utility, then restored from the Time Machine backup. More details here[3]. I've had it installed a couple weeks and don't have any issues with it. Sleep, hibernate, everything works perfectly. No crashes. It may be a little warmer when in heavy use, but I'm not sure. I can't say if it's affected battery life because I'm not mindful about how long the batter lasts. I also didn't run any performance testing on the old drive or new, but I didn't notice any changes. [0] http://eshop.sintech.cn/ngff-m2-pcie-ssd-card-as-2013-2014-2015-macbook-ssd-p-1229.html http://eshop.sintech.cn/ngff-m2-pcie-ssd-card-as-2013-2014-2... [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BN217QG/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BN217QG/ [2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0743CK4SF/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0743CK4SF/ [3] https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/287644/do-macbooks-support-nvme-ssd-drives-via-the-use-of-a-sintech-adapter https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/287644/do-macbooks...

by js2 8y ago

jandrese 8y ago

Also, after the fans the storage is the most random (not from abuse) failure prone part on most laptops. Well, I guess the keyboard on the MBPs might edge it out if you don't count "not only using it in a cleanroom" as abuse. It has been getting better as people work the bugs out of their SSD controllers, but it does mean the whole laptop is garbage if the MLC flash chip craps out.

Scoundreller 8y ago
Someone will realize they can create a business around hot-airing MLC flash chips from otherwise working logic boards.

ww520 8y ago

The soldered RAM is really bad, making adding RAM impossible. I get it. They want you to buy a new Mac every couple years. It's really annoying. I've considered adding SDXC 512GB card to the SDXC slot to expand storage, less thing to lug around than an external Thunderbolt drive.

balladeer 8y ago
So can I just use the card reader slot (mid 2012 MBA) to boot it on one that has a faulty storage (died after 4 yrs) instead of going for the costly flash drive replacement?
- ww520 8y ago
  Not sure whether booting work. Might need to check the boss bios. I know people use it to store VM images and run them off the flash disk.
bunderbunder 8y ago
I'm pretty ambivalent about the RAM thing. The CPUs they're using don't support more than 16GB of RAM, anyway, and I'd guess that nobody who both cares and has the tech knowledge to be likely to upgrade RAM is going to be buying the 8GB model in the first place. For me, the deeper problem there is, why should I be feeling anguish about being able to upgrade them memory in a (non desktop replacement) latpop in the first place? 20 years ago, when we were collectively trying to squeeze more and more out of personal computers at a fairly decent clip, it made some sense. At this point, though, things have tapered off outside of a few special cases like large-scale data crunching and serious gaming, neither of which was ever really a primary use case for Macs in the first place. What's left for reasons why you might need ever more RAM are things that feel kind of silly. On my personal computer, the big RAM suckers in recent memory have been ad-heavy news websites and (bafflingly) the Slack desktop app. In both cases, I'm pretty sure the reason why they get away with sucking more and more RAM is that we're rolling over and buying more RAM instead of putting some more pressure on software developers about being wasteful. I rather wish Grace Hopper were still around to give a memory consumption version of her "nanoseconds" lecture.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- 2muchcoffeeman 8y ago
  Well Slack is an electronjs app. I think developers are still chasing the ‘write once run anywhere’ Holy Grail. This time it’s JavaScript.
  - bunderbunder 8y ago
    Running in Electron accounts for a few tens of megabytes, tops. I'm not convinced it's really all that much worse than the runtime environments for popular interpreted and managed languages. The other 2-3GB (I'm not even kidding) seemed to be a result of keeping a copy every single attachment and Giphy image that anyone posts in memory, indefinitely. Like with any good memory leak, the solution was to bounce the application. I use vscode quite a bit, and it doesn't eat RAM in a way that seems reminiscent of what people like to blame on Electron apps. Perhaps what we like to lay at the feet of Electron is more appropriately blamed on there being a lot of JavaScript developers who haven't been sufficiently educated in how to manage memory.
Scoundreller 8y ago
FYI: there’s some handy form-fitting microSD-SD adapters that install flush or with a small tab. Just don’t insert them into a non-Mac, you’ll have a fun time pulling them out. Just a couple dollars from Asia from your favourite online auction house.
- spronkey 8y ago
  Ain't no SD card slot on the 2018 Air.
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    Boo-urns.
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
RAM I mind less than SSD as SSDs wear and have a habit of failing. A mobo swap at 4 years is going to be a hellishly expensive way of fixing a failed SSD. Clearly they want to make it too expensive to be worthwhile. At least RAM is likely to be good as long as the rest of the system.

pentae 8y ago

Another reason for the big song and dance about how environmentally friendly they are with recycled aluminium and so on. It stops Greenpeace and other groups shaming them for the environmentally unfriendly practice of creating products that are not repairable or upgradable which obviously shortens its usable lifespan causing more co2 emissions from people going through more devices. Under Cooks leadership they are doing everything they can to squeeze every last dollar from their customer base in a masterclass of price, strategy and product positioning and the supposed value proposition (touchbar, etc) is often dubious at best.

balladeer 8y ago
I wonder if it's due to the trend that the sales and new user acquisition are stagnating so they are just locking the "loyal" user-base so tight that they should keep paying regular amounts in the form of costly repairs and extremely costly upgrades as some kind of ecosystem rent. Because I all I see is dwindling value, more so if compared to increasing prices.
tonyedgecombe 8y ago
According to their latest report their maintenance costs are declining quite quickly. This implies the lifespan of their devices is lengthening. Lifespan isn't just about repairability, if something doesn't fail then you don't need to take it apart.
- pentae 8y ago
  Or it could mean that the average maintenance cost is so high the customers are opting not to repair but to buy a new device.
Scoundreller 8y ago
I thought the aluminum had more to do with being conductive to heat, and allowing for thinner devices. The “non-repairability” does mean old units get harvested for parts instead of scrapped for aluminum. When I’m ready to upgrade, i’ve Sold the still-usable parts and funded a substantial cost of buying the new version.

mortenjorck 8y ago

I wonder… I can kind of understand, at least when space is at such a premium as it is in a MacBook Air, soldering everything onto a single logic board. But why not allow that logic board to be upgraded? While it would be very un-Apple to offer upgrade kits to end users, I could very easily see the company offering upgrades as a Genius service (maybe also selling the parts to authorized service providers). You’d go to an Apple store, pay the upgrade price for a logic board with more storage or RAM (or a faster CPU), come back in an hour or two, and your MacBook would be waiting for you with the upgrade. It could be a huge green PR coup for Apple, as well as a way to drive post-sale revenue.

Wowfunhappy 8y ago
Labor is expensive. Even just standard non-upgrade repairs are extremely expensive for Apple products, if you don't have some type of warranty (extended or otherwise).
Scoundreller 8y ago
For the previous MacBook airs, logic boards were usually interchangeable. One could change their 2gb logic board for a 4gb. 3rd parties should be able to do it.
simonh 8y ago
There’s only one logic board design fir the Airs, in two configurations just fur storage. They’d have to design and manufacture new board configurations just for upgraders. No way that could ever be economical.

rando444 8y ago

If you don't mind me asking, can you share the 1TB SSD you chose? I have an 11" that I would be interested in upgrading, but was unaware there were compatible parts like that.

bydo 8y ago
The only third part SSD vendor I’m aware of is OWC: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/macbook-air/2013-2014-2015 https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/macbook-air/2013-201...
- js2 8y ago
  Sintech makes an adapter that allows you to use a variety of NVMe drives. They have a few versions of the adapter. I used this one: http://eshop.sintech.cn/ngff-m2-pcie-ssd-card-as-2013-2014-2015-macbook-ssd-p-1229.html http://eshop.sintech.cn/ngff-m2-pcie-ssd-card-as-2013-2014-2...
js2 8y ago
I used the Sintech ST-NGFF2013-C adapter[0] which I think I ordered from eBay and a Samsung 970 EVO 1TB[1]. I have a MacBook Air (11-inch, Early 2015). I used this tool kit[2]. You _must_ upgrade the Mac to High Sierra or Mojave before doing this. The upgrade to High Sierra upgrades the boot firmware adding NVMe support. I made sure my Mac was upgraded and had a time machine backup. I then installed the new SSD, booted from a USB flash drive with the Mojave installer, formatted the drive with Disk Utility, then restored from the Time Machine backup. More details here[3]. I've had it installed a couple weeks and don't have any issues with it. Sleep, hibernate, everything works perfectly. No crashes. It may be a little warmer when in heavy use, but I'm not sure. I can't say if it's affected battery life because I'm not mindful about how long the batter lasts. I also didn't run any performance testing on the old drive or new, but I didn't notice any changes. [0] http://eshop.sintech.cn/ngff-m2-pcie-ssd-card-as-2013-2014-2015-macbook-ssd-p-1229.html http://eshop.sintech.cn/ngff-m2-pcie-ssd-card-as-2013-2014-2... [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BN217QG/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BN217QG/ [2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0743CK4SF/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0743CK4SF/ [3] https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/287644/do-macbooks-support-nvme-ssd-drives-via-the-use-of-a-sintech-adapter https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/287644/do-macbooks...