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I think there are a number of circumstances where separating by gender is perfectly fine. Sports is an obvious one: because of gender differences in physiques,

by OskarS 8y ago

I think there are a number of circumstances where separating by gender is perfectly fine. Sports is an obvious one: because of gender differences in physiques, girls and boys compete at different levels, so the separation makes perfect sense. I'm just saying that it makes absolutely zero sense to do it for scouting. Scouting is about teaching kids to be self-reliant, to be confident in nature, to work well with others, and to help with their physical and mental development. There's absolutely no reason to split this up by gender except antiquated and sexist beliefs about women. It makes just about as much sense as having different scouting organizations for people with blue eyes and brown eyes.

bluecalm 8y ago
>>I'm just saying that it makes absolutely zero sense to do it for scouting Boys are stronger than girls so having boys only or girls only makes it easier to organize physical exercises/tests/requirements. It's also likely boys are in general interested in other things than girls so having gender separation allows more kids doing what they enjoy. One more reason could be that having genders separated removes the aspect of kids hitting puberty interacting with each other and additional burden it entails when organizing activities. I mean, there are surely reasons to have genders combined but it's very easy to imagine reasons to have it separated. >>It makes just about as much sense as having different scouting organizations for people with blue eyes and brown eyes. Oh c'mon, we can discuss how much different girls and boys are and what kind of structure is better for society but to claim relevant differences between boys and girls amount to differences between blue eyed and brown eyed people is just ignorant.
- nailer 8y ago
  I think your post is entirely reasonable (and it worries me to see generally acknowledged facts, like gender differences - girls interested in people, boys in systems - being downmodded on HN). But there are girls with typically male interests and boys with typically female interests. If a boy wants to do contemporary dance, give him an opportunity to do contemporary dance. If a girl is into survival tests (making shelter, hunting food etc), give her the opportunity to test herself.
  - bluecalm 8y ago
    I am not opposed to having mixed groups. They have a lot of benefits in many settings. I just don't want to force it. There are people with various views about how various activities should be and how children should be raised. Let them do w/e they think is best.
brobdingnagians 8y ago
I think part of the issue is that, as a private organization, it should be able to decide for itself in order to obtain it's own goals and ends (which they have, though I disagree with them and will look elsewhere for the good old experience). I see great value in separating genders for scouts and having a comraderie form among young men. Young men act very differently when they are around young women, and it is good to have both situations in structured environments. I feel it is easier to teach camping, self reliance, etc. when they aren't distracted by the cute girl. You might feel differently, and that's okay, but I think it's okay for both us to have our own opinions and our own organizations so that we can do as we see fit without attacking each other's position. I'm an Eagle Scout, and I'm very grateful for the experiences I had, I found it valuable. I had lots of other times and places to have other sorts of experiences, but scouts was special in it's own way.
jameshart 8y ago
I’m not sure it’s even obvious for sports. Doesn’t it make more sense to divide sports by physical ability regardless of gender, rather than use gender as a preposterously imprecise proxy for physical ability? Why have one team made up of the fastest boys and another of the fastest girls, rather than one team made up of the fastest kids and another made up of the next fastest kids?

by OskarS 8y ago

bluecalm 8y ago

>>I'm just saying that it makes absolutely zero sense to do it for scouting Boys are stronger than girls so having boys only or girls only makes it easier to organize physical exercises/tests/requirements. It's also likely boys are in general interested in other things than girls so having gender separation allows more kids doing what they enjoy. One more reason could be that having genders separated removes the aspect of kids hitting puberty interacting with each other and additional burden it entails when organizing activities. I mean, there are surely reasons to have genders combined but it's very easy to imagine reasons to have it separated. >>It makes just about as much sense as having different scouting organizations for people with blue eyes and brown eyes. Oh c'mon, we can discuss how much different girls and boys are and what kind of structure is better for society but to claim relevant differences between boys and girls amount to differences between blue eyed and brown eyed people is just ignorant.

nailer 8y ago
I think your post is entirely reasonable (and it worries me to see generally acknowledged facts, like gender differences - girls interested in people, boys in systems - being downmodded on HN). But there are girls with typically male interests and boys with typically female interests. If a boy wants to do contemporary dance, give him an opportunity to do contemporary dance. If a girl is into survival tests (making shelter, hunting food etc), give her the opportunity to test herself.
- bluecalm 8y ago
  I am not opposed to having mixed groups. They have a lot of benefits in many settings. I just don't want to force it. There are people with various views about how various activities should be and how children should be raised. Let them do w/e they think is best.

brobdingnagians 8y ago

I think part of the issue is that, as a private organization, it should be able to decide for itself in order to obtain it's own goals and ends (which they have, though I disagree with them and will look elsewhere for the good old experience). I see great value in separating genders for scouts and having a comraderie form among young men. Young men act very differently when they are around young women, and it is good to have both situations in structured environments. I feel it is easier to teach camping, self reliance, etc. when they aren't distracted by the cute girl. You might feel differently, and that's okay, but I think it's okay for both us to have our own opinions and our own organizations so that we can do as we see fit without attacking each other's position. I'm an Eagle Scout, and I'm very grateful for the experiences I had, I found it valuable. I had lots of other times and places to have other sorts of experiences, but scouts was special in it's own way.

jameshart 8y ago

I’m not sure it’s even obvious for sports. Doesn’t it make more sense to divide sports by physical ability regardless of gender, rather than use gender as a preposterously imprecise proxy for physical ability? Why have one team made up of the fastest boys and another of the fastest girls, rather than one team made up of the fastest kids and another made up of the next fastest kids?