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I work at a company where most of us use Macs. Everyone that has upgraded from a 2013-2015 MBP to the touchbar model absolutely hates it, including me. There's

• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• reaperducer 8y ago
  The touchbar made me realize that I have a habit of resting my fingers up there. I came to this realization because when I didn't think I was typing anything, stuff would happen. Eventually I realized I was touching virtual buttons on the touchbar. I don't hate it, but I wish more of the tools I use took advantage of it. I think it could be massively improved by shortening it a little on the left to make room for a physical escape key. That's about 95% of my problem with it.
  • wild_preference 8y ago
    Consider mapping CapsLock to Esc (and Ctrl when long-pressed) with Karabiner. I haven't used my physical Esc key since 2014 or something. Might help with your issue.
    • philwelch 8y ago
      You don't need a third party tool; System Preferences does this for you already. (Maybe not the long-press, but I'm vim, not emacs).
    • copperx 8y ago
      If you remap CapsLock to Esc, what key do you use for Control for doing Control A, Control E, Control K, Control Y, Control N, and Control P in every application?
      • wild_preference 8y ago
        I tried to address this in my parentheses, but Karabiner specifically lets you bind CapsLock to both: Esc when tapped alone, and Ctrl when held down in combination with other keys. And your post also answers you sibling comment: Ctrl modifier is useful outside of just Emacs. Try it out. I believe the API changed in the macOS release before Mojave, so they relaunched Karabiner under the name Karabiner Elements. This option is under the "Complex Modifications" tab. If I was writing a list of tricks for macOS power users to try, this would be my number one. Up there with binding a global show/hide hotkey for iTerm (I use Ctrl-Space, thus CapsLock-Space).
        • Fnoord 8y ago
          I prefer Magic Trackpad 2 (or native MBP 2015 trackpad) to any other way of navigation but Vi keybinds -if available- work as well. I currently use Karabiner for this as well, but a slightly different configuration. The two rules I use are: * R-Cmd + hjkl are arrows (which works great with HHKB but even on native MBP it requires less movement of hand from trackpad or typing hand than the arrow keys) * Caps solo is Esc while Caps with another key equals Ctrl. Is there a way to do this in Linux as well? I currently have to use Linux regularly and I rebind Caps to Ctrl however for Vim it isn't ideal. So I'd like to have the same functionality I have with Karabiner on Linux (Xorg / console).
• ako 8y ago
  I don't understand all the hate for the touchbar. I can never remember the functions performed by the function keys, so having icons indicating which functions are available seems really useful.
  • sixstringtheory 8y ago
    Do you have to look down to use those icons on the Touchbar? This is something I don’t have to do as a touch-typist. Repeatedly craning your neck to look down will result in RSI. I spend a little effort to learn new hotkeys every so often and the benefit far outweighs the cost: I’m much faster and keep my good ergonomics.
    • ako 8y ago
      I don't use the function keys much, so yes, i do look at the keyboard when using them.
  • fipple 8y ago
    The problem is that most serious computer users use a laptop docked, so it’s useless 70-90% of the time, which means the software can’t rely on it, which means it’s an afterthought in all apps.
    • dkonofalski 8y ago
      >most serious computer users Ahh... the good 'ol Scottsman shows his face yet again! Right on time!
      • rusk 8y ago
        A Scotsman would be to say “No true computer user ...” - this was a generalisation. An apt one IMHO
        • dkonofalski 8y ago
          No it wasn't. Define "serious". What makes one computer user more "serious" than another. The point of the no true Scottsman is that the term is never defined by the statement and so it's completely subjective.
• kayoone 8y ago
  Comparing the keyboard with a $200 walmart netbook is a joke. It might not be everybody's taste, but it's far from terrible. I actually like it and at my company where 95% of engineers have one, there is not more complains than usual about the new model. People that really can't stand the keyboard will usually use external peripherals at their desk.
  • Friedduck 8y ago
    I share in the hate. It’s the worst keyboard I’ve used in memory. The trackpad is first rate however. The touchbar is so much less functional than the keys it replaces. Some key combinations now require serious acrobatics, and you can’t touch type as easily. We’re not buying any more macs until it improves.
• poulsbohemian 8y ago
  >the touchbar model absolutely hates it What kind of work do you / your teammates do? I walked into an Apple store last week prepared to hate the keyboards and touch bars, but was very pleasantly surprised. My ladyfriend wanted to see the Air, but was so taken with the Touch Bar for photo work that she will be buying an MBP instead. While it might not be everyones cup of tea, I think Apple may have figured is demographics correctly on this one.
  • phaus 8y ago
    I don't have a problem with the touchbar, its the keyboard that they introduced on the same model.
• Gorbzel 8y ago
  > Its OK if you like it. I'm sure lots of people do, but you know damn well significantly more people have had issues with this laptop than normal, so I'm not sure why you're implying otherwise. Yup, that's exactly what the HN groupthink would like to believe. What is by definition a small user demographic complains repeatedly/loudly that their problems are the most important, indicative of "everyone", and Apple is doomed because so-and-so bought a Surface Pro/Dell/System76. The hyperbolie is kicked up a notch here, as clearly any $200 Walmart laptop keyboard is better. As is typical, there's never any data to support the claims and a significant number of counter anecdotes are dismissed absent critical reasoning ("you know damn well...!"). Instead, the echo chamber resonates unabated by logic. Throw in an out of context Steve quote and you can identify this drivel pretty uniformly. It's usually best to ignore, though at times a response is merited when it's completely off topic and unhelpful (as it is here, the new Mac mini seems awesome regardless of a hater's two year old take on the tbMBP).
  • Damogran6 8y ago
    I like the feel of the keyboard. I did not like the trip to the Mac store at 8 months whereby they very gingerly lifted the spacebar and removed whatever crumb was under there making it mushy. I also like the touchbar. The touch-slide volume is a nifty improvement...I use the touchbar for the occasional screengrab...and that's about it. As someone mentioned above, I too would really like a physical Escape key
  • phaus 8y ago
    If you go back and read my comment, I didn't say that out of Apple's entire customer base, more people dislike the keyboard than like it. I said that more people are having issues with this computer than a normal Apple MBP. Just like your comment, this is an anecdotal opinion on the Internet. I didn't read your response and come away with the conclusion that you were attempting to represent it as a peer reviewed white paper, so I'm not sure why you're holding my random Internet comment to the same standard. My anecdotal evidence is that all of the typical places people go to talk about technology on the Internet(reddit, hacker news, blogs, etc.) seem to have to more complaints about the keyboard on the new MBP than I recall seeing about the old model, which was almost universally hailed as the best laptop on the market. Included with that anecdotal evidence is my own experience in a company with hundreds of people that use MBPs. There might be other companies where everyone loves them. It would be really helpful if we could trust Apple to publish accurate, relevant data on the new MBP vs the old one, but they have a history of hiding, denying and/or lying about issues with Apple products. >The hyperbolie is kicked up a notch here, as clearly any $200 Walmart laptop keyboard is better. This isn't hyperbole. Its just my opinion and it was presented as such. I've been using computers since the early 90s. I've never used a keyboard that felt worse to me than the MBP. When I say that I don't mean that its one of the worst keyboards I've ever used, I mean that its THE worst keyboard that I have ever used, which is obviously just my opinion. >Throw in an out of context Steve quote and you can identify this drivel pretty uniformly This isn't a case where reusing a quote is changing the context of what he meant. I wasn't saying that Steve Jobs agrees with my opinion of the new MBP. This should be pretty obvious. The original context was that Steve Jobs felt one product was so superior to another one that getting the former was like getting a glass of ice water in hell. Its a perfectly relevant quote used in the same way that he did. I just happen to be comparing different products. >It's usually best to ignore, though at times a response is merited when it's completely off topic and unhelpful (as it is here, the new Mac mini seems awesome regardless of a hater's two year old take on the tbMBP). 1. Its perfectly on-topic to discuss the quality of Apple products in a post about an Apple product. The reputation of their products is pretty valid when people are discussing whether to buy a newer product. 2. I didn't bring up the MBP, someone else did and I responded. 3. Not liking a single Apple product doesn't make me a "hater". I loved my 2013 MBP, I loved all of my iPhones/iPads, and I love MacOS. Apple released a product that I have an issue with. Lots of other people are having the same issue. I'm not sure why you have to react to that like a personal attack. There's this phenomenon where if lots of people have an issue with something and then a random person buys the product and has a good experience, that person decides to dismiss everyone that has had an issue, pretend its impossible the issue existed, and then act like there must be something wrong with the people that had the issue. I don't really understand that because with any product that sells thousands or millions, its typical for some people to have issues even if most like it. In this case, it just happens to be a product where a slightly larger percentage than normal is having an issue.
• city41 8y ago
  I also think the new MacBook Pro is the worst laptop I've ever had. I hated it so much I switched to a Thinkpad. Thankfully these are company issued laptops and I could do this pretty easily. Had I bought a personal one I'd be quite distraught.
• rbanffy 8y ago
  Anyone who hates the touchbar has never chased a chat window for the mute button (it's there). Also, no need to leave the keyboard to click on dialog box buttons - they also get there. It could be better - it could require a bit more of pressure to press buttons and could have haptic feedback like the touchpad, but I bet someone is working on that, even if it means extending haptic feedback to the whole chassis (which is not a bad idea anyway).