6 ms·
Honest question: why should I as a person be taxed on income (the closest I guess I can get to the concept of revenue) but a business should be taxed on profit?
by klez 8y ago
Honest question: why should I as a person be taxed on income (the closest I guess I can get to the concept of revenue) but a business should be taxed on profit? Can anyone explain to me the basis for such a distinction?
- friedman23 8y agoIncome taxes are a badly implemented tax so you wont get an argument from me there. We shouldn't be extending bad policy.
- 0xffff2 8y ago(The following based on US income taxes) You as a person don't have a clear "profit" to tax. I would argue that the system of deductions is the nearest equivalent to taxing your individual income on your profits.
- CompelTechnic 8y agoLet's say you operate a low margin business, such as a gas station. All numbers are before tax. For the year, you spend $1,000,000 paying for fuel, convenience store supplies, electricity, wages, etc. You get $1,050,000 in revenue from your customers, for a fairly realistic margin of 5%. Now let's say you run a software business. You pay $500,000 in electric bills, computers, wages, etc, and collect $1,000,000 in revenue for a margin of 50%. Would you rather live in a society where the gas station pays MORE tax than the software business? This would be the case if you taxed revenue instead of profit. If the revenue-tax rate were 4%, the owner of the gas station would be left with $10,000 at the end of the year, and the owner of the software business would be left with $460,000. Bringing these numbers back into normal, profit-based terms, the gas station owner would be paying an effective tax rate of 80%, with the software business owner paying an effective tax rate of 8%. If businesses were taxed on revenue instead of profit, low margin businesses and capital intensive businesses would be punished disproportionately. Businesses often face unplanned expenses or loss of revenue. This would have the effect of forcing businesses to raise prices to compensate for the increased risk, and would force lots out of business. This reduced economic activity would be bad for consumers, producers, the government, and society as a whole. Individual people's income taxes cannot be treated this way, because the closest analogy to "business expenses" for a person's lifestyle is their cost of living. If cost of living were deductible it would be highly gameable and ripe for abuse by numerous parties.
- rusk 8y agoBy this reasoning I should only be taxed on income once food, fuel and housing costs are taken into account, or am I missing something? I end up paying VAT on a lot of these things as well ... I do get tax credits for some essentials but it's relatively speaking a miniscule amount. There's an interesting formula for a progressive tax regime if anybody wants to take it up ...
- icebraining 8y agoThat's kind of the purpose of deductions; it's common for housing (particularly mortgage), education and health costs to be deductible on one's income tax, much like a business deducts its expenses to calculate profit. Taxing only your disposable income would mean that a person living in a mansion would pay much less than someone living in a small home, which is weird; arguably, the extra niceness of the house is "profit", whereas the shareholders don't usually benefit from paying more for their inputs (some exceptions notwithstanding).
- smallbigfish 8y ago>it's common for housing (particularly mortgage), education and health costs to be deductible on one's income tax Oh! What's the name of this country? In my country all taxes are applied before you get to see the actual money.
- pault 8y ago> Taxing only your disposable income would mean that a person living in a mansion would pay much less than someone living in a small home, which is weird; Just as weird as a corporation with billions in revenue paying a zero or negative tax rate? Or weirder?
- icebraining 8y agoNot as weird :)
- rusk 8y ago
- xoa 8y ago>the closest I guess I can get to the concept of revenue I don't think that is actually the closest you could get, even ignoring that you're asserting two wildly different things should necessary be equivalent. But even so: Do you literally never take any deductions at all? Never expense anything? No mortgage or whatever? Have zero capital gains income of any kind an in turn never have any losses of any kind there? You just add up all income sources and simply pay the top rate off the sticker price and ignore all the rest? I mean, it's not impossible or illegal to do such a thing and pay more if you want to, but I think you'd be somewhat in the minority there. Even personal income taxes at least haltingly, imperfectly and politically try to take somewhat into account that there are certain expenses necessary for humans to live or that further societal goals and that if after paying those someone has little left over then the tax system should take that into account. >why should I as a person be taxed...[differently from business] Humans and businesses aren't the same thing, businesses (like government) are a tool composed of and serving humans. It is a structure for dealing with and directing flows of capital towards human decided ends, and all money that goes through it ultimately ends up in the hands of humans as income upon which it is taxed there too anyway. A "business" has direct societal costs in terms of corporate law and such, but it does not need to ever use an ambulance or get housing or food support or whatever. Taxes on business, separate from the humans that compose said business, should be for dealing with business specific requirements, cost internalization, and so on. It makes absolutely no sense to simply tax a business the same as a human, not even if you are simultaneously proposing not taxing any of the humans involved. If it's done be prepared for perverse consequences. If a business has high revenue with genuinely 3% margins that still represents a huge amount of money flowing from and too various humans (including all the employees, all suppliers and contractors, their employees, and on), "revenue" is still taxed somewhere. But if you then simply slap a tax on the revenue again and make the margin go negative now the business dies, simple as that, and all the flows cease. Is that actually your intention? Why not just seize it then and take it all for the government directly? If you want to argue that the income flows going to humans are themselves ultimately not taxed fairly, that is not merely doable but I think fairly widely agreed at this point. And if you want to argue that specifically and properly assessed business income taxes should not be possible to evade as so many do sure, that too happily seems to be inching forward. But you seem to be going a lot more radical and just throwing out everything.
- clairity 8y agobecause in the age of paper receipts, it was an undue burden on taxpayers to impose the detailed accounting needed to figure out your legitimate cost of living as an individual or family. with our lives now largely tracked electronically, that’s becoming less true (but is still at least an undue burden for the ~40% of the population who are poor or near poor).
- nradov 8y agoNet income is the same thing as profit. The parent comment confused income with revenue. Taxing revenue is obviously a terrible idea because it would have a disproportionate impact on low-margin business. As an individual taxpayer you can deduct certain expenses from your revenue when calculating your taxable income, just like a business. But businesses do generally have a broader set of deductible expenses.