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Can you name an example where this news organization (Center for Investigative Reporting) has lied? If not, the fact that it has won a number of widely recogni

Can you name an example where this news organization (Center for Investigative Reporting) has lied? If not, the fact that it has won a number of widely recognized rewards and has received a MacArthur grant should give you confidence that the reporters have been careful in their investigation and reporting.

whatshisface 8y ago
Whether or not they lied is in the end an implementation detail - a skilled amoral persuader doesn't need to lie to mislead. The toolbox for that includes being biased in what facts you mention, making "mistakes," and using your own words to connect the wrong dots (basically every way to introduce an error can be abused). Tesla claims that the reporters are focusing on a healthcare provider that they cut ties with while ignoring what they are actually doing at present - which is one example of what you could do to make your readers believe wrong things without lying.
- salvar 8y ago
  All right then, can you name an example where this news organization (Center for Investigative Reporting) has misled readers to make them believe the wrong things?
  - whatshisface 8y ago
    There's no point in being a less sophisticated reader than you can be. You should never be ignorant about the techniques that dishonest writers can use to fool you, no matter what you are reading.
    - Buldak 8y ago
      Justifying a presumptive skepticism of reporting on Tesla with such a nebulous pronouncement as "but reporters often lie ..." is pretty much the opposite of "sophisticated."
  - eduah 8y ago
    Again, That Tesla under reported injuries, which a 4 month OSHA investigation proved wasn't true. Is that enough of a lie to mistrust Reveal? You must surely know this.
    - frakkingcylons 8y ago
      As mentioned in the Reveal article, OSHA also found four other instances of improperly reporting injuries but could not report it due to the statute of limitations.
  - freerobby 8y ago
    There are at least three prior examples of Reveal publishing falsehoods about Tesla: * Intentional underreporting of injuries. * Disallowing the use of yellow tape at the factory. * Disallowing audible warnings ("beeps") on forklifts.
eduah 8y ago
That Tesla under reported injuries, which a 4 month OSHA investigation proved wasn't true. Is that enough of a lie to mistrust Reveal?
- RivieraKid 8y ago
  I doubt that they lied, Reveal and the people behind them seem honest. On the other hand, Tesla and Elon are not known for honesty.
  - DuskStar 8y ago
    Are OSHA investigators known for letting companies get away with that sort of thing? My impression was the opposite.
- mikedh 8y ago
  The OSHA investigation did no such thing, and in fact the article included a direct quote from OSHA: "A Cal/OSHA spokeswoman said the investigation found four other “injury recording violations that fell outside of the statute of limitations.”" "Outside of the statute of limitations" is very different than "proved wasn't true."
freerobby 8y ago
The very "news organization" that is reporting this story has a history of publishing lies about Tesla. Google "Tesla Yellow Tape" -- that scandal was originally reported by Reveal, disproven within minutes of its release, and still has not been retracted.

whatshisface 8y ago

Whether or not they lied is in the end an implementation detail - a skilled amoral persuader doesn't need to lie to mislead. The toolbox for that includes being biased in what facts you mention, making "mistakes," and using your own words to connect the wrong dots (basically every way to introduce an error can be abused). Tesla claims that the reporters are focusing on a healthcare provider that they cut ties with while ignoring what they are actually doing at present - which is one example of what you could do to make your readers believe wrong things without lying.

salvar 8y ago
All right then, can you name an example where this news organization (Center for Investigative Reporting) has misled readers to make them believe the wrong things?
- whatshisface 8y ago
  There's no point in being a less sophisticated reader than you can be. You should never be ignorant about the techniques that dishonest writers can use to fool you, no matter what you are reading.
  - Buldak 8y ago
    Justifying a presumptive skepticism of reporting on Tesla with such a nebulous pronouncement as "but reporters often lie ..." is pretty much the opposite of "sophisticated."
- eduah 8y ago
  Again, That Tesla under reported injuries, which a 4 month OSHA investigation proved wasn't true. Is that enough of a lie to mistrust Reveal? You must surely know this.
  - frakkingcylons 8y ago
    As mentioned in the Reveal article, OSHA also found four other instances of improperly reporting injuries but could not report it due to the statute of limitations.
- freerobby 8y ago
  There are at least three prior examples of Reveal publishing falsehoods about Tesla: * Intentional underreporting of injuries. * Disallowing the use of yellow tape at the factory. * Disallowing audible warnings ("beeps") on forklifts.

eduah 8y ago

That Tesla under reported injuries, which a 4 month OSHA investigation proved wasn't true. Is that enough of a lie to mistrust Reveal?

RivieraKid 8y ago
I doubt that they lied, Reveal and the people behind them seem honest. On the other hand, Tesla and Elon are not known for honesty.
- DuskStar 8y ago
  Are OSHA investigators known for letting companies get away with that sort of thing? My impression was the opposite.
mikedh 8y ago
The OSHA investigation did no such thing, and in fact the article included a direct quote from OSHA: "A Cal/OSHA spokeswoman said the investigation found four other “injury recording violations that fell outside of the statute of limitations.”" "Outside of the statute of limitations" is very different than "proved wasn't true."

freerobby 8y ago

The very "news organization" that is reporting this story has a history of publishing lies about Tesla. Google "Tesla Yellow Tape" -- that scandal was originally reported by Reveal, disproven within minutes of its release, and still has not been retracted.