7 ms·

I’m biased, but I’ve had a feeling in the beginning it was always going to be Dallas in some capacity: 1. DC area may have three potential cities, but Texas is

I’m biased, but I’ve had a feeling in the beginning it was always going to be Dallas in some capacity: 1. DC area may have three potential cities, but Texas is the only other region that has two cities being considered 2. DFW airport is one of the US’s busiest airports, and American Airlines is headquartered there, so you can get a direct flight to anywhere in the country in 3 hours tops. Amazon already has multiple warehouses here and also ships freight through DFW and other airports in the area. 3. Public transit (Dallas has the largest light rail network south of DC), continued investment, world class museums, and honestly a pretty hip city with a lot of activity in the center, not unlike Seattle. Also lots of millennials moving there for its low cost of living and ample jobs. 4. You can’t beat Texas’ business environment — Bezos even praised it when he spoke at a business conference at SMU earlier this summer. 5. Establishing two offices will give Amazon influence in two places, and covering Seattle (West Coast), DC/NoVa (East Coast), Texas (South) gives them nationwide influence.

gnomesteel 8y ago
There's a reason so many companies are moving to DFW.
xrd 8y ago
Can you elaborate on the Texan business environment? This is often lauded by Texas politicians. What makes it different and possible, since it obviously isn't being duplicated in other cities.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- sct202 8y ago
  They have low taxes in comparison to other states, partially because they can rely on taxes and licensing fees on mineral extraction (oil) to fund things that other states would have to fund thru other taxes.
  - jhayward 8y ago
    Texas is one of the highest tax states in the union. Simply because there is no income tax does not imply low taxation. For instance, property taxes in Williamson County (Austin suburb, extremely conservative, are at 3.08% for new construction homes. Compare that to any other state.
    - jakelarkin 8y ago
      ... that's compared to +1.5% in SF/Alameda on houses 2-3x the cost and worse size/quality (and up to a 1.5% transfer tax in some cities). California has the highest state income tax, near top sales tax rates and if you are a recent home buyer some of the highest absolute property taxes (thanks to the price dynamic described above). Plus you get screwed on federal SALT caps, mortgage interest deduction and maybe AMT. I'll gladly take your 3% if there were more options for interesting places to work and it was not 110 degrees in the summer.
    - sct202 8y ago
      That's comparable to the 2-3% in suburban Illinois (where I live now) and Ohio (where my family is from) and both of those states also have state income tax on top of that. By this ranking, the tax burden in Texas is 33rd out of 50 states so it's not a low tax state, but it is definitely on the lower tax end of the spectrum. https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/ https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-bur...
- fipple 8y ago
  Cheap housing, lots of land.
- monocasa 8y ago
  It's mainly the stuff that's pro-employee in California (wrt non-compete and what have you) are pro-employer in Texas.
- jakelarkin 8y ago
  some familiarity with running a small business in Ca. : Every little thing your business does potentially has some permitting, licensing fees, taxes, and/or approvals necessary at the local, county, or state levels, with lots of complicated form filling needed and a DMV level of service & timeliness in response. If you have a physical presence you're doubly screwed, because that potentially ropes in local land-use, health and labor departments, which can take months to turn around an approval. Its basically impossible to keep in compliance unless you have dedicated lawyers and accountants looking at each project. My understanding is that Texas doesn't have a lot of that or at least its minimized. The reason "business environment" can't be duplicated or reversed because it's like a legal equivalent of tech debt code rot where also a large group of ops employees (politically influential bureaucrats) earn their life's income on the busy work the system creates.
- chrisco255 8y ago
  To add to what others have said: No state income tax. Relaxed zoning laws (compared to CA).
- andrestan 8y ago
  Primarily, from my understanding, it's related to diminished permitting and (most importantly) very lax zoning laws.
throwaway427 8y ago
> Public transit, continued investment, world class museums, and honestly a pretty hip city with a lot of activity in the center, not unlike Seattle. Also lots of millennials moving there for its low cost of living and ample jobs. Minus museums, this could be said of plenty of other cities that are in places with less wacky politics. Museums don't mean a thing. Low cost of living as a requirement means a relative low cost of living compared to the West Coast. I'd prefer to see Denver as the location over Dallas. The State of Texas needs a swift kick in the ass regarding their state politics, specifically the war on women, and their continued absurd policies regarding weed. The last thing they need more of is to be rewarded for unsustainable tax policies.
- psychometry 8y ago
  It might be good for a red state to get an HQ, though, since educated people will for once migrate there instead of away from there.
  - didgeoridoo 8y ago
    Except the net migration flow in recent decades has been from "blue" to "red" states, not the other way around... do you have any source for the claim that those moving are disproportionately not "educated" people? https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/04/24/the_politics_of_migration_from_blue_to_red__133681.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/04/24/the_po...
    - mrep 8y ago
      Well obviously all educated people vote democratic because only uneducated people would ever vote republican \s
    - esf 8y ago
      California migration is disproportionate this way. In-migration to CA is high income and high educated vs out-migration is middle to low income and less educated. I believe I've seen these trend analyzed in other states as well (low and middle income earners have the most to gain by moving to lower cost of living states, so it's a common pattern). https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/article136478098.html https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/article13647809... https://lao.ca.gov/laoecontax/article/detail/265 https://lao.ca.gov/laoecontax/article/detail/265 http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-migration-20150101-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-migration-2...
dbllxr 8y ago
>... covering Seattle (West Coast), DC/NoVa (East Coast), Texas (South) gives them nationwide influence. It's a bit hurtful whenever the Midwest is left out like it's not part of the country.
- madengr 8y ago
  Assuming the politics of Amazonians are reflected in this thread, I don’t want them in the red states.
sealthedeal 8y ago
I dont think you understand Dallas at all...
zjaffee 8y ago
Many of these statements are also true of the NYC metro area where there also happen to be 2 cities being considered (NYC and Newark). The key difference is that Amazon currently employs thousands of people in both NYC/Newark and in NoVa, where the number of people in Dallas is substantially smaller. Both NYC and DC have far better public transit and airports than Dallas. The only thing Dallas has beat over these two places is cost of living, where in both it's not too difficult to find affordable housing outside the city (something that isn't as much the case in other tech hubs). The business environment aspect tends to matter more to smaller companies, or those building things like factories, than it does for Amazon, as they already have the resources to push through complicated government processes, and will receive substantial tax breaks to make up for the rest.

gnomesteel 8y ago

There's a reason so many companies are moving to DFW.

xrd 8y ago

Can you elaborate on the Texan business environment? This is often lauded by Texas politicians. What makes it different and possible, since it obviously isn't being duplicated in other cities.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
sct202 8y ago
They have low taxes in comparison to other states, partially because they can rely on taxes and licensing fees on mineral extraction (oil) to fund things that other states would have to fund thru other taxes.
- jhayward 8y ago
  Texas is one of the highest tax states in the union. Simply because there is no income tax does not imply low taxation. For instance, property taxes in Williamson County (Austin suburb, extremely conservative, are at 3.08% for new construction homes. Compare that to any other state.
  - jakelarkin 8y ago
    ... that's compared to +1.5% in SF/Alameda on houses 2-3x the cost and worse size/quality (and up to a 1.5% transfer tax in some cities). California has the highest state income tax, near top sales tax rates and if you are a recent home buyer some of the highest absolute property taxes (thanks to the price dynamic described above). Plus you get screwed on federal SALT caps, mortgage interest deduction and maybe AMT. I'll gladly take your 3% if there were more options for interesting places to work and it was not 110 degrees in the summer.
  - sct202 8y ago
    That's comparable to the 2-3% in suburban Illinois (where I live now) and Ohio (where my family is from) and both of those states also have state income tax on top of that. By this ranking, the tax burden in Texas is 33rd out of 50 states so it's not a low tax state, but it is definitely on the lower tax end of the spectrum. https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/ https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-bur...
fipple 8y ago
Cheap housing, lots of land.
monocasa 8y ago
It's mainly the stuff that's pro-employee in California (wrt non-compete and what have you) are pro-employer in Texas.
jakelarkin 8y ago
some familiarity with running a small business in Ca. : Every little thing your business does potentially has some permitting, licensing fees, taxes, and/or approvals necessary at the local, county, or state levels, with lots of complicated form filling needed and a DMV level of service & timeliness in response. If you have a physical presence you're doubly screwed, because that potentially ropes in local land-use, health and labor departments, which can take months to turn around an approval. Its basically impossible to keep in compliance unless you have dedicated lawyers and accountants looking at each project. My understanding is that Texas doesn't have a lot of that or at least its minimized. The reason "business environment" can't be duplicated or reversed because it's like a legal equivalent of tech debt code rot where also a large group of ops employees (politically influential bureaucrats) earn their life's income on the busy work the system creates.
chrisco255 8y ago
To add to what others have said: No state income tax. Relaxed zoning laws (compared to CA).
andrestan 8y ago
Primarily, from my understanding, it's related to diminished permitting and (most importantly) very lax zoning laws.

throwaway427 8y ago

> Public transit, continued investment, world class museums, and honestly a pretty hip city with a lot of activity in the center, not unlike Seattle. Also lots of millennials moving there for its low cost of living and ample jobs. Minus museums, this could be said of plenty of other cities that are in places with less wacky politics. Museums don't mean a thing. Low cost of living as a requirement means a relative low cost of living compared to the West Coast. I'd prefer to see Denver as the location over Dallas. The State of Texas needs a swift kick in the ass regarding their state politics, specifically the war on women, and their continued absurd policies regarding weed. The last thing they need more of is to be rewarded for unsustainable tax policies.

psychometry 8y ago
It might be good for a red state to get an HQ, though, since educated people will for once migrate there instead of away from there.
- didgeoridoo 8y ago
  Except the net migration flow in recent decades has been from "blue" to "red" states, not the other way around... do you have any source for the claim that those moving are disproportionately not "educated" people? https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/04/24/the_politics_of_migration_from_blue_to_red__133681.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/04/24/the_po...
  - mrep 8y ago
    Well obviously all educated people vote democratic because only uneducated people would ever vote republican \s
  - esf 8y ago
    California migration is disproportionate this way. In-migration to CA is high income and high educated vs out-migration is middle to low income and less educated. I believe I've seen these trend analyzed in other states as well (low and middle income earners have the most to gain by moving to lower cost of living states, so it's a common pattern). https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/article136478098.html https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/article13647809... https://lao.ca.gov/laoecontax/article/detail/265 https://lao.ca.gov/laoecontax/article/detail/265 http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-migration-20150101-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-migration-2...

dbllxr 8y ago

>... covering Seattle (West Coast), DC/NoVa (East Coast), Texas (South) gives them nationwide influence. It's a bit hurtful whenever the Midwest is left out like it's not part of the country.

madengr 8y ago
Assuming the politics of Amazonians are reflected in this thread, I don’t want them in the red states.

sealthedeal 8y ago

I dont think you understand Dallas at all...

zjaffee 8y ago

Many of these statements are also true of the NYC metro area where there also happen to be 2 cities being considered (NYC and Newark). The key difference is that Amazon currently employs thousands of people in both NYC/Newark and in NoVa, where the number of people in Dallas is substantially smaller. Both NYC and DC have far better public transit and airports than Dallas. The only thing Dallas has beat over these two places is cost of living, where in both it's not too difficult to find affordable housing outside the city (something that isn't as much the case in other tech hubs). The business environment aspect tends to matter more to smaller companies, or those building things like factories, than it does for Amazon, as they already have the resources to push through complicated government processes, and will receive substantial tax breaks to make up for the rest.