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I found this an interesting read, and it certainly makes a good point. Echo chambers are definitely going to have a greater net throughput of information compar

I found this an interesting read, and it certainly makes a good point. Echo chambers are definitely going to have a greater net throughput of information compared to a network in which members aren't keen to share with one another due to perceived differences. So overall, members of an echo chamber can end up more informed than if they hadn't been. However, I think it's important to note that modern discourse isn't critical solely of echo chambers, but also of their effects when false information is introduced into one. The same trust that allows more informed members also facilitates misinformation. That being said, it's probably more effective to use that lack of verification to police misinformation within the echo chamber than to introduce members that could offer contradictory - but also potentially false - information. It would just require some added diligence from members of the echo chamber.

nl 8y ago
it's probably more effective to use that lack of verification to police misinformation within the echo chamber than to introduce members that could offer contradictory - but also potentially false - information. Putting aside the verification problem for a minute, doesn't the echo chamber problem lead almost automatically to group think? I do machine learning, and I see a strong analogy here with overfitting. If all the data is from a subset of of population and it is never validated outside that subset then the model will become strong on that subset data but much weaker outside. In machine learning we use a variety of regularization techniques to combat this. One thing that actually works pretty well to build robust models is (a small amount of) mislabeled data: the model learns not to depend on any single feature.
- pjc50 8y ago
  What do people actually mean by "groupthink" here and why precisely is it bad? Everyone drives on the same side of the road and (mostly) follows the same traffic rules and we don't call it "groupdrive". Surely having everyone believe the same true thing isn't actually bad - nobody calls Maxwell's equations "groupthink" unless they're trying to sell you a perpetual motion machine.
  - nl 8y ago
    Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink The most commonly used example is the Bay of Pigs invasion, where no one advising Kennedy raised any possible negative consequences. That’s seen in contrast to the Cuban Missile crisis a few years later where Kennedy actively sort contrary advice.
grenoire 8y ago
I think that'd be the line at which it ceases to be an echo chamber though, no?

nl 8y ago

it's probably more effective to use that lack of verification to police misinformation within the echo chamber than to introduce members that could offer contradictory - but also potentially false - information. Putting aside the verification problem for a minute, doesn't the echo chamber problem lead almost automatically to group think? I do machine learning, and I see a strong analogy here with overfitting. If all the data is from a subset of of population and it is never validated outside that subset then the model will become strong on that subset data but much weaker outside. In machine learning we use a variety of regularization techniques to combat this. One thing that actually works pretty well to build robust models is (a small amount of) mislabeled data: the model learns not to depend on any single feature.

pjc50 8y ago
What do people actually mean by "groupthink" here and why precisely is it bad? Everyone drives on the same side of the road and (mostly) follows the same traffic rules and we don't call it "groupdrive". Surely having everyone believe the same true thing isn't actually bad - nobody calls Maxwell's equations "groupthink" unless they're trying to sell you a perpetual motion machine.
- nl 8y ago
  Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink The most commonly used example is the Bay of Pigs invasion, where no one advising Kennedy raised any possible negative consequences. That’s seen in contrast to the Cuban Missile crisis a few years later where Kennedy actively sort contrary advice.

grenoire 8y ago

I think that'd be the line at which it ceases to be an echo chamber though, no?