10 ms·

Being fair, the advertisements can be switched off (and Windows Setup offers this during the Out of Box Experience when the computer is first used or a major up

Being fair, the advertisements can be switched off (and Windows Setup offers this during the Out of Box Experience when the computer is first used or a major update occurs), and those icons can be removed fairly simply. Also, those third party apps aren't preinstalled; they're just shortcuts to the Microsoft Store to download them. I see a lot of people spending more energy ranting about this, a problem that doesn't necessarily exist in the way that people might think, than doing a quick investigation to find that the apps aren't there in the first place.

davidy123 8y ago
People shouldn't have to spend any time on this, at all. Very few people want ads for games or anything else than their operating system focus in their start menu. There should be at most a subtle opt-in option.
- hackinthebochs 8y ago
  >Very few people want ads for games or anything else than their operating system focus in their start menu. Why do you think the average person wouldn't want these popular apps a click away?
  - dragonsky67 8y ago
    Because if I want software to perform a particular action I will go looking at it. I don't want unwanted icons hanging around waiting for me to accidently click on them.
    - vntok 8y ago
      That's because you are not part of MS Store's target user segment.
  - komali2 8y ago
    I actually have yet to meet a person that plays Candy crush windows, and not for lack of hanging around non technical people.
  - nitrogen 8y ago
    Is there some way I can opt out of "average person" justifications for crappy experiences? If I'm paying a niche price for a niche product I should expect more than "average".
JustSomeNobody 8y ago
> Being fair, the advertisements can be switched off... There's nothing "fair" about that. I shouldn't have to.
- Wistar 8y ago
  Especially in a Pro version. Groove Music is my complaint as that cannot be removed with the uninstaller.
satysin 8y ago
I have never seen an option in the OOBE to disable the automatic installation of Twitter, Candy Crush, Trivago, Fallout Shelter, Kindle and other such crap. What setting are you referring to? You are correct in that they are stubs however the moment Windows finds internet access it begins downloading them. This is obviously their preferred solution to ensure the user gets the latest and greatest version of the appvert. Some can be removed easily and some not. I know Microsoft are working on making it easier to remove more of their own apps which they should have done in the first place IMHO. Yes I am spending energy ranting about this because it is a problem to me. I shouldn't have to spend any time on removing such crap from an OS that I paid around £200 for (Pro license remember not some free upgrade from Windows 7 back in 2015) that is baked into the £3000+ price of my Surface Book 2. It isn't that it is too difficult just that it shouldn't be required. It would be like buying a Mercedes and having to remove advertising stickers from the back Windows.
- exikyut 8y ago
  I'm curious what your opinions of Windows Loader/picoKMS et al are. On the one hand, it would get an Enterprise copy running. On the other hand... this is old (may 2017) and the URL shortner hiding the "followup article" is down, but there's this: https://twitter.com/m8urnett/status/866353982217699328 https://twitter.com/m8urnett/status/866353982217699328 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14389441 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14389441
pasabagi 8y ago
I think it's a bit like having a big smudge of snot on your screen. Sure, you can clean it off. Certainly, it's trivial. Equally, it devalues the product, far more than any value it could bring Microsoft. When I buy a new laptop, I don't want to spend 3 hours reading articles about how to get rid of adverts for mobile phone games, and switching off other blatantly user-hostile features. It's just vaguely schizophrenic. You have all this genuinely cool, nicely done engineering, then the initial impression is ruined by a load of slapped-on garbage. It's like selling a BMW with a bunch of McDonnalds special-offer vouchers stuck to the steering wheel.
- zapzupnz 8y ago
  > I think it's a bit like having a big smudge of snot on your screen Or, to take the laptop analogy, like having unnecessarily-difficult-to-remove stickers showing off the processor, graphics, and chipset inside… we're all oddly desensitised to devalued products and apply different standards depending on what strikes us as more outrageous. > I don't want to spend 3 hours reading articles about how to get rid of adverts Sure, so just be sure to disable ads during the OOBE session when you first turn the computer on. It's a checkbox or switch or whatever Windows has decided to use now. Of course, I do take the point. Especially when it comes to regular people, whose apprehension at seeing the words 'advanced' and 'setup' in the same place make the prospect of choosing anything other than the Express Setup out of the question. I'm just saying it's not the drama that some people make it out to be, not for the technically minded I assume this site's audience to be.
  - pasabagi 8y ago
    There are plenty of people who are very technically minded that have absolutely zero interest in configuring their computer. I'm not outraged by it. I just feel bad for the talented people at microsoft who sweat over the OS, only to have somebody glue-gun a bunch of trash to the front at the last minute.
paranoidrobot 8y ago
> Being fair, the advertisements can be switched off Sorry, but Citation required. I've installed more than my fair share of Windows 10 Home and Pro versions, had both shipped on new devices and nowhere was I offered any options which controlled installing this shit. > a problem that doesn't necessarily exist in the way that people might think Even if it was a shortcut to the Windows Store, but it still there eating up space on the start screen... But even still it doesn't help. I have to go uninstall it (because yes, it's actually installed goddamn Candy Crush and other shit for me) I'll open up my laptop and find it's decided that it'll install Windows Update right now and fuck whatever I wanted to do with the machine. Worse, once it's completed it's screwing with my machine, it's gone and re-installed shit, and now bugs me (again) about "Hey, instead of using Chrome, how about you use Edge!" and has reset a bunch of other system options to be the way MS wants them. I'm hardly alone in this experience - I saw at least half a dozen presenters at NDC Oslo last year bitching about this happening to them the morning of/right before presentations, and I've had it happen to me during meetings/conference calls/etc - where it's fucked off with work that I'm in the middle of. Windows 10 is why I'm on a full-on effort to move my primary machines over to Linux after decades of Windows use.
- philliphaydon 8y ago
  It’s in the advanced options of the install process..............
  - mattnewton 8y ago
    Maybe I did it wrong, but I intended to switch it off and I still get ads after updates on my gaming machine.
  - paranoidrobot 8y ago
    Ok, which specific advanced option, and where? Are certain key combinations required? Is it only settable by putting options in a config file? Please be specific, and/or link to any relevant documentation. 'cause I hit Advanced any time there was an option, and switched every privacy setting/tracking option off. Yet it still installs ads for Office, various other Bing shit, Installs Candy Crush, etc.
EpicEng 8y ago
>a problem that doesn't necessarily exist in the way that people might think It exists in exactly the way it manifests. It's obnoxious. I paid (I _paid_ for this!) for an OS, not to be a node in an ad delivery network.
- zapzupnz 8y ago
  I expect the advertising comes out of the fact that Windows 10 is Microsoft's first proper attempt at a free upgrade. But yes, people have paid for Windows, so in this case it's unacceptable — but I don't think Microsoft figured out (or particularly cares to figure out) what installation is what type.
manigandham 8y ago
Technically yes, but realistically no. Those options are very spread out and many are named in a way that sounds different from advertising (like Cortana Suggestions). Making a default in a mainstream OS where many people would not know how nor would care to put in the effort is basically making it forced. I think the main issue in this thread though is that it is just not worth the hit to brand and UX compared to the trivial money it might make.

davidy123 8y ago

People shouldn't have to spend any time on this, at all. Very few people want ads for games or anything else than their operating system focus in their start menu. There should be at most a subtle opt-in option.

hackinthebochs 8y ago
>Very few people want ads for games or anything else than their operating system focus in their start menu. Why do you think the average person wouldn't want these popular apps a click away?
- dragonsky67 8y ago
  Because if I want software to perform a particular action I will go looking at it. I don't want unwanted icons hanging around waiting for me to accidently click on them.
  - vntok 8y ago
    That's because you are not part of MS Store's target user segment.
- komali2 8y ago
  I actually have yet to meet a person that plays Candy crush windows, and not for lack of hanging around non technical people.
- nitrogen 8y ago
  Is there some way I can opt out of "average person" justifications for crappy experiences? If I'm paying a niche price for a niche product I should expect more than "average".

JustSomeNobody 8y ago

> Being fair, the advertisements can be switched off... There's nothing "fair" about that. I shouldn't have to.

Wistar 8y ago
Especially in a Pro version. Groove Music is my complaint as that cannot be removed with the uninstaller.

satysin 8y ago

I have never seen an option in the OOBE to disable the automatic installation of Twitter, Candy Crush, Trivago, Fallout Shelter, Kindle and other such crap. What setting are you referring to? You are correct in that they are stubs however the moment Windows finds internet access it begins downloading them. This is obviously their preferred solution to ensure the user gets the latest and greatest version of the appvert. Some can be removed easily and some not. I know Microsoft are working on making it easier to remove more of their own apps which they should have done in the first place IMHO. Yes I am spending energy ranting about this because it is a problem to me. I shouldn't have to spend any time on removing such crap from an OS that I paid around £200 for (Pro license remember not some free upgrade from Windows 7 back in 2015) that is baked into the £3000+ price of my Surface Book 2. It isn't that it is too difficult just that it shouldn't be required. It would be like buying a Mercedes and having to remove advertising stickers from the back Windows.

exikyut 8y ago
I'm curious what your opinions of Windows Loader/picoKMS et al are. On the one hand, it would get an Enterprise copy running. On the other hand... this is old (may 2017) and the URL shortner hiding the "followup article" is down, but there's this: https://twitter.com/m8urnett/status/866353982217699328 https://twitter.com/m8urnett/status/866353982217699328 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14389441 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14389441

pasabagi 8y ago

I think it's a bit like having a big smudge of snot on your screen. Sure, you can clean it off. Certainly, it's trivial. Equally, it devalues the product, far more than any value it could bring Microsoft. When I buy a new laptop, I don't want to spend 3 hours reading articles about how to get rid of adverts for mobile phone games, and switching off other blatantly user-hostile features. It's just vaguely schizophrenic. You have all this genuinely cool, nicely done engineering, then the initial impression is ruined by a load of slapped-on garbage. It's like selling a BMW with a bunch of McDonnalds special-offer vouchers stuck to the steering wheel.

zapzupnz 8y ago
> I think it's a bit like having a big smudge of snot on your screen Or, to take the laptop analogy, like having unnecessarily-difficult-to-remove stickers showing off the processor, graphics, and chipset inside… we're all oddly desensitised to devalued products and apply different standards depending on what strikes us as more outrageous. > I don't want to spend 3 hours reading articles about how to get rid of adverts Sure, so just be sure to disable ads during the OOBE session when you first turn the computer on. It's a checkbox or switch or whatever Windows has decided to use now. Of course, I do take the point. Especially when it comes to regular people, whose apprehension at seeing the words 'advanced' and 'setup' in the same place make the prospect of choosing anything other than the Express Setup out of the question. I'm just saying it's not the drama that some people make it out to be, not for the technically minded I assume this site's audience to be.
- pasabagi 8y ago
  There are plenty of people who are very technically minded that have absolutely zero interest in configuring their computer. I'm not outraged by it. I just feel bad for the talented people at microsoft who sweat over the OS, only to have somebody glue-gun a bunch of trash to the front at the last minute.

paranoidrobot 8y ago

> Being fair, the advertisements can be switched off Sorry, but Citation required. I've installed more than my fair share of Windows 10 Home and Pro versions, had both shipped on new devices and nowhere was I offered any options which controlled installing this shit. > a problem that doesn't necessarily exist in the way that people might think Even if it was a shortcut to the Windows Store, but it still there eating up space on the start screen... But even still it doesn't help. I have to go uninstall it (because yes, it's actually installed goddamn Candy Crush and other shit for me) I'll open up my laptop and find it's decided that it'll install Windows Update right now and fuck whatever I wanted to do with the machine. Worse, once it's completed it's screwing with my machine, it's gone and re-installed shit, and now bugs me (again) about "Hey, instead of using Chrome, how about you use Edge!" and has reset a bunch of other system options to be the way MS wants them. I'm hardly alone in this experience - I saw at least half a dozen presenters at NDC Oslo last year bitching about this happening to them the morning of/right before presentations, and I've had it happen to me during meetings/conference calls/etc - where it's fucked off with work that I'm in the middle of. Windows 10 is why I'm on a full-on effort to move my primary machines over to Linux after decades of Windows use.

philliphaydon 8y ago
It’s in the advanced options of the install process..............
- mattnewton 8y ago
  Maybe I did it wrong, but I intended to switch it off and I still get ads after updates on my gaming machine.
- paranoidrobot 8y ago
  Ok, which specific advanced option, and where? Are certain key combinations required? Is it only settable by putting options in a config file? Please be specific, and/or link to any relevant documentation. 'cause I hit Advanced any time there was an option, and switched every privacy setting/tracking option off. Yet it still installs ads for Office, various other Bing shit, Installs Candy Crush, etc.

EpicEng 8y ago

>a problem that doesn't necessarily exist in the way that people might think It exists in exactly the way it manifests. It's obnoxious. I paid (I _paid_ for this!) for an OS, not to be a node in an ad delivery network.

zapzupnz 8y ago
I expect the advertising comes out of the fact that Windows 10 is Microsoft's first proper attempt at a free upgrade. But yes, people have paid for Windows, so in this case it's unacceptable — but I don't think Microsoft figured out (or particularly cares to figure out) what installation is what type.

manigandham 8y ago

Technically yes, but realistically no. Those options are very spread out and many are named in a way that sounds different from advertising (like Cortana Suggestions). Making a default in a mainstream OS where many people would not know how nor would care to put in the effort is basically making it forced. I think the main issue in this thread though is that it is just not worth the hit to brand and UX compared to the trivial money it might make.