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China used Huawei to hack network, says report
- asadhaider 8y agoNon paywall archive: https://archive.is/3Jt9R https://archive.is/3Jt9R
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- gaoshan 8y agoLink not working
- mabbo 8y ago> Don't think about this in terms of just governments tracking you. Consider if you have any work emails containing company secrets in them. Consider if you have 2FA apps installed that you would use to unlock or change your work password. And since it was almost certainly the Chinese Intel/Military that helps Huawei and other companies, you can be sure that whatever information Huawei gets access to doesn't need to just help them out, but might help any other company the Chinese government wants to see succeed. -Me, 3 weeks ago on this website Don't buy Huawei hardware. Their incentives to help their customers is far less than their incentives to help their government.
- raprp 8y agoYes. Buy Apple or Google's phones instead. They would never leak customer data for the US government. Oh wait...
- dforrestwilson 8y agoOne government is vastly more transparent than the other. One company is government subsidized and the others are not. Hard to make a genuine privacy comparison with a straight face.
- sametmax 8y agoAlready forgot PRISM ? No wonder they do stuff like this when the public attention span is so small.
- bepotts 8y agoThe Snowden revelations caused tech companies to implement strong encryption for consumer facing communications. Apple, Google, and Facebook all offer encryption protocols that now piss off the US government and caused friction between the private and public sectors. People saying "but PRISM" have missed the past five years of US politics. Even Obama was getting mad at US tech.
- raprp 8y agoDo you have any proof despite statements that the entire internal surveillance programs of the NSA was dismantled or we should just believe because the US government would never lie to us?
- mtgx 8y agoYes and no. Google has all but abandoned the idea of end to end encryption for its users.
- hnmonkey 8y agoTechnically, while I do think that those companies have moved to stronger encryption over the past few years (which is a general trend I think) for consumer facing stuff, at least one of the changes that came out of PRISM was that Google started encrypting all of their communications in and out of their data centers (and in between) because PRISM was tapping at the datacenter level if I recall (something related to the note with the smiley face).
- gwhat 8y agoI always think of Ai Weiwei when considering just what's possible under the Chinese government and system. It's nice that my property won't be demolished and that I won't be kidnapped and beaten by police just because the government doesn't like my criticisms. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ai_Weiwei https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ai_Weiwei Evan Osnos has some interesting pieces about China and Ai Weiwei: https://www.newyorker.com/news/evan-osnos/ai-weiwei-at-home-in-absentia https://www.newyorker.com/news/evan-osnos/ai-weiwei-at-home-...
- bepotts 8y agoIt's popular to hate the US government and US tech companies, but the US government and US tech companies are far more ethical than the Chinese. It's ridiculous to assert otherwise.
- hatersgonnahate 8y agoIt’s much more popular to hate China nowadays. Blame China to rob everything from us
- IllogicalLogic 8y agoAre they though? Did the Chinese government spend the last century toppling democratically elected governments and subjecting the populations to the horrors that followed purely for economic gain? I guess not.
- indemnity 8y agoHello whataboutism!
- raprp 8y agoCalling other peoples argument whataboutism is the get out of jail free card for double standards.
- pcardh0 8y agoThey subjected their own population to horrors, but at least it wasn't for economic gain.
- raprp 8y agoLets not mention the torture program, which the current head of CIA took part. Or the "humanitarian" invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia and Syria without UN Security Council mandate. Especially Lybya, which is much more democratic now with it's slave markets. Or the protectionism that goes against the WTO treaties. Or by weaponizing the dollar, which is supposed to be the world's reserve currency, by the means of sanctions. Should I mentions the use of nuclear weapons and napalm against targets with dense civilian population close by? China, Russia and the US are all draconian regimes. Some target it's own people, other target people overseas and others target both. The difference is that one has holywood at it's side to show them saving the world time and time again from aliens, metheors and vile russians / nazis. And people just treat the US government as the good heart kid that makes a few mistakes.
- zarkov99 8y agoEven if that was true, as an American, I would much prefer leaking to my government over that of a Communist dictatorship hellbent on becoming the ruling super power.
- browsercoin 8y agoif I had to choose between the lesser of the two evils: America vs China I choose America. At least they don't harvest organs out of dissidents for liking Winnie the Pooh. You judge a culture by how they treat the bottom rung.
- IllogicalLogic 8y agoDifferent stages in development and the richest country in the world (right now) would obviously win. We will see what this answer will be in 50-100 years.
- sametmax 8y agoI got a one plus, and now i'm wondering... But let's be honest, iphones and android parts are manufactured in china. There are most probably a lot of spying hardware we don't know about that call the mother land.
- freehunter 8y agoDo you think Apple blindly trusts the hardware that comes from their factories? I have no evidence either way, but I would be very surprised if their hardware experts in the US didn't tear down and verify the parts that get shipped to them, like they did with the SuperMicro motherboards. The idea that there is a lot of spying hardware in an iPhone that Apple doesn't know about is an extraordinary claim.
- bordercases 8y ago> I have no evidence either way Should you blindly trust Apple's process?
- freehunter 8y agoIf someone is going to accuse a company of having third party spy chips in their phones, they'd better be ready to prove it. Especially if that company is known for their insanely strict (not very strict, actually insane) supply chain management and have been known to put suppliers into bankruptcy for not meeting the company's supply needs exactly (GTAT sapphire). Especially a company very recently in the news for having picked apart every chip on a server motherboard to find out if any of those chips were not in the BOM. I don't have to blindly trust anything to know the burden of that proof is on the person making that claim. If you're going to accuse that company of mismanaging their supply chain and compromising the security of their users and their products while crowing publicly otherwise, you'd better come with some evidence.
- bordercases 8y agoAssume innocence over guilt, assume guilt over innocence; false positives or false negatives. Where burden of proof stands depends on the kind of error you're attempting to minimize. In this case I don't think it's warranted to try and minimize the rate of error of accidentally not trusting even if you have had some trust before. It's because security is a hard, induction-based problem. You counter it with vigilance in the long-run. Ignoring local rumors with high potential impact adds up. Additionally unless you truly believe you can't be impacted by privacy theft or think your actions are so petty that they would never be useful to analyze by a bad actor; or, you additionally have Apple stock or some equivalent stake, I don't know why you wouldn't be willing to distrust vehemently. To me it seems like accidentally being wrong about Apple is not worse than any of those things.
- pcardh0 8y agoBut their product are so inexpensive compared to other vendors, and they seem to have the same exact features, right down to the bugs.
- Fnoord 8y ago2FA "apps" which are used on the same device are not really 2FA. Use a physical device instead of that.
- mabbo 8y agoI've seen 2FA apps that are used for logging into company non-mobile websites.
- squarefoot 8y ago"Don't buy Huawei hardware. Their incentives to help their customers is far less than their incentives to help their government." Every company in every country is going to jump if their government says them so. I wouldn't expect any telcos or phone manufacturers to act differently if they were paid or gag ordered to act against their customers.
- lawnchair_larry 8y agoWe already have proof of several American companies not doing this, and actually suing the government in response.
- stevespang 8y agoImmediate Paywall: Why even post it ?
- majia 8y agoAs revealed by Snowden, US can compel tech companies to help their intel services too. Instead of a total ban based on how friendly we feel towards certain countries, a trust but verified approach should be adopted. Establish comprehensive, robust and transparent security requirements and regulations for foreign tech firms to comply and allow them to compete on a level field. Review source code and hardware design for critical components, like what UK and Canada are doing. A competent government should be able to achieve security without imposing unnecssary costs on consumers and companies using foreign suppliers.
- Theodores 8y ago> As revealed by Snowden, US can compel tech companies to help their intel services too. Precisely. People have short memories and don't seem to see the pot calling the kettle black. I expect better on HN. We have hard evidence that GCHQ/NSA have hacked pretty much everything yet far too often people ignore this to jump on the weakest of speculative hearsay to accuse without hard evidence our Chinese and Russian friends of stooping to our GCHQ/NSA levels of evil-wrong-doing. Is this what they call xenophobia once you get to the facts?
- oculusthrift 8y agono? you really don’t see the difference between a foreign hostile government spying vs the domestic one doing it? i don’t think either is good but just because one happens doesn’t mean it’s in our interest to allow another. especially from the governments perspective. it has nothing to do with xenophobia.
- Youden 8y ago> you really don’t see the difference between a foreign hostile government spying vs the domestic one doing it? The foreign hostile government can't legally do anything to me based on the information it gains. At worst it can blackmail me or abuse access to accounts, at which point I'll have the protection of my government. The domestic government can do a lot of damage with the information it gains and importantly, I have little to no recourse. If it makes up an excuse to seize my funds, I can't really do anything. If a three-letter agency blackmails me into doing something, who's going to protect me? They're both bad but a foreign government spying on me is less bad than a domestic one. A bit off topic but it sounded like you were implying that domestic was less bad. I believe the reverse.
- fit2rule 8y agoIt seems more and more that the citizen of the world has to agree to the sovereign will of the nation where their desirous objects are built. Its getting kind of like I wonder if the world will respond to these things by bringing the tech local. Could I grow my own products closer to the border, where inspection and compliance is much more trustworthy? Well, its a European question .. perhaps it would happen. Perhaps also, the balkanisation of technological manufacturing prowess in the European states, counter to this, might just blow the whole thing out of proportion, too.
- gaoshan 8y agoAnyone have a summary or better source? Paywall is strong with this one.
- onetimemanytime 8y agoChina felt generous to build an entire new building for African Union. About $200 Million cost, and it came complete with bugs (as in spy ones) and backdoor-ed network that sent the data to China every night. NSA would have done the same, that's what countries do. There I said it. But the story, for me, is more about Huawei doing whatever their owner wants. Stay away from them
- hatersgonnahate 8y agoHuawei phones are still great in terms of affordability with high end spec. Tell the nonrich people more about the eavesdropping and most don’t give it shit
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- pbhjpbhj 8y agoI'm using one; given GCHQ/NSA/whoever already are watching my data, that UK ISPs use Huawei gear - and from who knows where - I don't really care. I can't see what they'd want with my info. If I was working on stuff to be patented or something then maybe ... If I use an Apple device the Chinese or USAmericans could be surveilling me; Samsung/LG, perhaps the Koreans; Sony/Fujitsu maybe the Japanese ... I wouldn't know either way, nor ever need to care AFAICT. As the parent suggests, perhaps if you have a lot to lose then paranoia about this might pay off.
- hnmonkey 8y agoJust to be clear... paranoia is an irrational fear that people are out to get you. If you are actually being spied on by someone (you are) then that word doesn't apply since the fear of that spying is 100% rational.
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- withhighprod 8y agoIt’s amazing to see Americans blindly trust their government and media even after several systemic incident
- azinman2 8y agoOver China? Yes.
- harigov 8y agoBut do you also realize where you are getting all your news about China from?
- hnmonkey 8y agoDo you have proof that any of the news about China (from tons of different sources, including other countries that are not America) is propaganda or not accurate? You're implying a global conspiracy is afoot to besmirch the good Chinese name when everyone has known for a while that they're generally bad actors behind the scenes when it comes to spying and stealing of secrets/IP/tech.
- IllogicalLogic 8y agoIP theft aside, anti-Chinese propoganda goes back 200 years in the US and UK. Is this question about proof a joke?
- malshe 8y agoArticle with paywall removed: https://outline.com/WfCzFe https://outline.com/WfCzFe
- Leary 8y agoClickbait article. The title suggests Huawei hacked Australia when it's about old news from the African Union.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- throw8910 8y agoThe growing danger is apps originating in china that request excessive permissions. Utility apps that claim to save battery & space are all suspects. At a minimum they are adware, but most likely state owned malware.