16 ms·
Show HN: I asked an HN member for feedback and she blew my mind
A few days ago, I responded to a comment by bloggergirl offering to read anyone's web copy and help. I shot off an email hoping for a paragraph or two of feedback on my startup's copy.
Instead I received a professional, detailed deck of tons of invaluable well thought out feedback. It must have taken her an entire afternoon.
Here's a link to it: http://www.slideshare.net/shereefb/recommendations-for-bettermeans
To top it off, this isn't someone with a lot of free time on her hands, she's only days away from launching her own startup (page99test)
This community blows my mind!
- wtracy 16y agoClickable link: http://www.slideshare.net/shereefb/recommendations-for-bettermeans http://www.slideshare.net/shereefb/recommendations-for-bette... Poster is not kidding about how complete and professional this slide deck is. I'm impressed!
- jacquesm 16y agoThere is some pretty good advice in there that would apply to just about any website.
- rhythmAddict 16y agoDefinitely. That is a grad school worthy slide-deck without a doubt.
- maukdaddy 16y agoI came here to say the same thing. As an MBA student, this is better than what 75% of my peers could have produced. Very, very nice work. You should be charging for this kind of quality :)
- pmjoyce 16y agoI'm impressed too. What gets me most is the clarity of thought that's so evident in the analysis. Like a lot of things in life; seeing someone who truly has mastery over their craft makes difficult things look so easy.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- jimbokun 16y agoI feel like I just completed a mini-course in writing web copy.
- CamperBob 16y agoAny chance of a .PDF or .PPT link?
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- theDoug 16y agoThis isn't an advertisement, but anyone interested in doing this sort of thing for a living or benefiting from it should definitely attend the Web Content conference (2011: http://webcontent2011.com http://webcontent2011.com , 2010: http://webcontent2010.com http://webcontent2010.com). It's full of great speakers who do this for a living and seriously helped our group of 8-12 get our content mojo back.
- soci 16y agoIt's quite amazing. I learned a lot !
- jacquesm 16y agoHN is rapidly changing in to some real-life version of pay-it-forward. I'm going to have to think hard on a way in which I can contribute to this phenomenon, I think that some amazing stuff may grow out of it.
- kabuks 16y agoAbsolutely. Without thinking about it, her generosity inspires me to spend more time here looking for an excuse to help someone in return.
- percept 16y agoIt would be great to see "Ask HN" featured more prominently on the site--it gets to the heart of why many of us are here and most of the other stuff can be found elsewhere.
- jacquesm 16y agoThe ask HN posts have their own section now where they remain visible far longer than before. The price of that is that they're gone even quicker from the homepage.
- quizbiz 16y agoYou have already done so much. Countless are spending time doing their best to share authentic valuable knowledge. They are not thanked enough. Thank you!
- terryjsmith 16y agoAs a programmer I've been trying to think of a way to do my own Offer HN or the like. The problem is that most programming projects are much broader in scope and there's a learning curve to learning my code for someone else who follows up. I'd be open to suggestions for how I could lend my programming knowledge to this phenomenon.
- tlrobinson 16y agoMaybe something like Wil Shipley's "Pimp My Code" series where he gives feedback to Cocoa programmers, but for your area of expertise, of course. http://www.google.com/search?q=pimp+my+code+site%3Awilshipley.com http://www.google.com/search?q=pimp+my+code+site%3Awilshiple...
- andre3k1 16y agoWow, the amount of time and effort that she must have dedicated in completing her feedback is astounding. The least we can do is bump up a post about her startup the day it launches. Bloggergirl, get ready for the voluminous amount of web traffic on launch day!
- jacquesm 16y agoHm, you've just given me an idea: A HN based traffic exchange, where HN members with large websites would donate excess inventory to pull new starter-uppers off the ground. Does that have merit?
- netcan 16y agoI think this is the type of thing where formulating & formalizing is a mistake. It would be better if this sort of just culturally "evolved." eg. jacquesm posts 'I'll promote one startup on launch day that helps another HNer in a meaningful way.' bloggergirl offer help accepted by kabuks resulting in this post. I wonder if HN isn't a little big for this though.
- proexploit 16y agoJust like attempting to formalize it may be a mistake, thinking HN might be too big is an equally limiting mistake. Ideally the pay-it-forward concept would encompass every individual globally and as such it has no upper limit. When in doubt, just concentrate on what you can do :)
- netcan 16y agoMaybe that should be maybe HN is too big considering that this isn't its main purpose.
- jacquesm 16y ago> jacquesm posts 'I'll promote one startup on launch day that helps another HNer in a meaningful way.' I've already been doing that for a while, I was just wondering if it might be useful to give that some bigger shoes. I'm sure that any of the sites here that are large enough to be selling ads would have some unsold inventory or inventory that they could miss without any pain whatsoever. If you have to set that up on a per-instance basis it is a lot of work (it is for me) so that might take the sting out of it and make it more practical.
- ZeroMinx 16y agoIt's going to be very interesting to see what happens when HN continue to grow. I don't know how big HN is right now, and I don't know where the breaking points for an online community are, but growth does mean change. I remember some years ago I'd go to slashdot to read the comments... This is and has been a fantastic site (I'm personally fairly recently a registered user, before that I was just reading), and I hope it will continue to be. But I do also know that if it continues to grow, it will mean there will have to be changes (more people = more trolls, etc). Dealing with change is always hard, I hope the spirit of HN will remain. EDIT: actually meant to be a follow-up to jacquesm's post. It appears I failed :-/
- ScottBurson 16y ago> EDIT: actually meant to be a follow-up to jacquesm's post. It appears I failed :-/ That's happened to me too. I think it's a bug.
- SkyMarshal 16y agoIt's the curse of the Eternal September. The only forums I've seen that managed to grow large while still keeping the posts on topic are ones with strong moderation that don't hesitate to quickly ban trolls, rather than just relying on the community to downvote them.
- aberkowitz 16y agoAs of last update, HN has 30 [1] moderators composed of YC alumni. [1] http://ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html http://ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html scroll to "Who are the editors?"
- kabuks 16y agoClickable link to bloggergirl's startup: http://page99test.com/ http://page99test.com/
- ZeroMinx 16y agoI know it's standard internet stuff, but if I click on a big button saying "Start reading", I want to start reading. I do not want a big form asking me to register. If I like the service, yes, I will want to register, but give me a chance to form an opinion first.
- 8ren 16y agoYes. There's a strategy of "gradual engagement": http://www.lukew.com/ff/entry.asp?1128 http://www.lukew.com/ff/entry.asp?1128 (HN: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1774007 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1774007) gives some specific ideas on implementing it - and some impressive results. Basically, don't require more info from the user than you need right now. An example is you can read HN/reddit without an account - but if you want to vote/submit/comment, you need an account (and that's all: email etc is optional). Although you might really want signups, and so it seems to makes sense to get them ASAP, the counter-productive result is that people don't go further. I didn't; the GP didn't - and that's even after the wonderful publicity here on HN. You've got to make it as adoptable as possible.
- patio11 16y agoMy test with gradual engagement was an epic, epic failure for my business, for what it is worth. I got vanishingly few customers and they caused hugely disproportionate support issues. (Exacerbated by one poor implementation choice.)
- zem 16y agoyep. i wanted to explore the site, the idea sounded interesting, and i was kindly-disposed towards bloggergirl due to the impressive website review she did, but when the registration form came up i just closed it and moved on. maybe i'll check it out later when i haven't spent the last fifteen hours at work, but right now the cognitive load and annoyance cost of registration is more than i'm willing to subject myself to.
- fuzzythinker 16y agoI think the review serves as a great guideline for all currently yet-to-launch sites and items to address/review for launch ones.
- tptacek 16y agopage99test.com is gorgeous; who designed it?
- percept 16y agoWas just reading about it here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1835288 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1835288
- tptacek 16y agoAhhh; I see that client list and leap to the assumption: "hellaciously expensive".
- bmr 16y agoI thought the same thing, but not having a lot of experience hiring designers, I am curious what type of numbers we are actually talking. 1-5k? 5-10k? More?
- patio11 16y agoWith MailChimp in your portfolio? Substantially north of $10k, just on design work (no CSS, no implementation), if I'm guessing right.
- fireitup 16y agoWorryFreeLabs was surprisingly affordable. My partner Lance and I 'bootstrapped' these design costs with our bonuses from our day jobs (and didn't exhaust our bonuses with it). Without question, I'd recommend WorryFreeLabs if you're looking for a group to take your idea and bring it to life in design. We're continuing to work with them as we build out page99test.com, and they're as fantastic as ever.
- tptacek 16y agoIf anyone's got a designer who can do that caliber of work for $5k, let me know.
- markbao 16y agoWow, that's amazing. bloggergirl, you need to write and sell an ebook on web copy. Marketed correctly (and I have no doubts that you'd be able to), you'd make tens of thousands of dollars at the least. I mean, a $20 or even $25 ebook on web copy that will increase my conversion rate? Incredible value prop. I'd buy it.
- jacquesm 16y agoConsider at least two copies sold then. What a neat idea, please, yes, do this.
- raydookie 16y agoCount me in as well. This is truly amazing stuff bloggergirl.
- patio11 16y agoI would buy that book, too, but I would feel remiss if I didn't point out that she could charge at least high four figures for a week of consulting and get it. The deck she produced here is worth north of $2,000.
- markbao 16y agoTime to drop Rails consulting and take up content... :)
- patio11 16y agoI've banged this drum a few times, but if both of those are in your bag of tricks, your economic value to the right company is Very High Indeed. (Plus you can e.g. instrument the site to prove how much copy changes actually mattered. This decreases the risk of hiring you and allows you to charge higher prices because you are not also having the client self insure against the project being worthless.)
- fireitup 16y ago
- momotomo 16y agoThis is a real bar-raiser in terms of community help. Seeing a submission to someone of this quality at no cost is inspiration to participate - to both keep the ball rolling, and also to compete for "coolest free help" spot number one. Very positive outcome.
- acconrad 16y agoIt's posts like these that make me scratch my head when people say HN is going downhill.
- translated 16y agoBloggergirl's website is nicely designed and I like the idea as well. 3.1MB of background image is going to cause her grief in the long run though.
- marcamillion 16y agoThis is why I love the age I live in, the internet & HN. Someone takes the time to invest a few hours into helping a fellow entrepreneur with a particular strength they have. Word gets out, and it turns out that the specific help they gave is directly related to the purpose of their recently launched startup. This could be either a brilliant PR coup, or just genuine good-neighbourliness coming home to roost. I love it when a plan comes together.
- aberkowitz 16y agoWhy can't it be both?
- marcamillion 16y agoWell...because it's not really 'genuine' if it was a PR stunt. Or rather, the motives wouldn't have been 'pure', as in strictly from the point of view of, I-want-to-help-out-another-guy-type-of-pure.
- fireitup 16y agoWell, I had no idea Shereef would post this. But I'm very grateful. I think it's a very pay-it-forward sort of mentality that sits well with everyone in the HN community, everyone who believes information should be free and wants to see others with great ideas do really well. Honestly, if you check out BetterMeans.com, you'll want to help them out, too - without question.
- tumpak 16y agoI read it ! thank you for your efforts in helping the original posts ! says a lot about you.
- aiurtourist 16y agoThis sounds like a business idea: Let people upload an image, URL, or copy, and charge for reviewing: $n for a five minute lookover, $m for an hour. Editors reply with an updated draft and visual diff of changes.
- grigy 16y agoA few days ago I ran into a similar service. It's free, though you have to review others sites: http://feedbackroulette.com/ http://feedbackroulette.com/
- aiurtourist 16y agoNot quite what I mean, but that's ok :) With Feedback Roulette, every submitter is also a reviewer. "Communal review." With the paid editorial service, submitters only pay pre-authorized editors.
- fireitup 16y agoSHEREEF, thank you! I really didn't expect you to say anything about this little PPT. Much appreciated. :) blush Honestly, how nice of you! I really hope your site does well because BETTERMEANS.COM is a super-smart idea. It was a total privilege to get involved with your website at all. I hope everyone checks it out. BTW, I received an email from you and will get back to you pronto privately. In the meantime, much appreciated. And to everyone else who wrote to me re: help on copy, I'm happy to get back to you over the coming days: joanna AT page99test DOT com. Go, Hacker News community!
- kabuks 16y agoLeast I could do Joanna. btw, you should use your bloggergirl account, instead of a new one so folks start recognizing you in this community.
- bloggergirl 16y agoI forgot my password the other day (restarted computer and couldn't retrieve it), so I had to login as fireitup. Anyway, good call --- I didn't even think about my username when I commented.
- maxcameron 16y agohttps://twitter.com/joannawiebe https://twitter.com/joannawiebe Is this you? Would love to stay up to date with what you're doing! Great deck by the way. Pretty epic goodwill.
- bloggergirl 16y agoNo, I don't actually have a personal twitter account. I tweet @page99test, if you'd like to follow.
- DiamondsSteak 16y agoBloggergirl, you inspired me to create an account here! Love reading about people sharing their passion and helping others along the way. I would also like to help review copy and provide feedback if anyone needs it. I do brand management marketing at my day job and have a near-obsession with clear messaging. It's a shame if you have a great product/service but your customer doesn't understand the benefit.
- photon_off 16y agoWelcome to HN! It might be helpful to include an email address in your profile blurb :) I launched a "toolbar" (it's actually a bookmarklet) two weeks ago and although anybody I show it to in person thinks it's great, everyone else just gets confused. I put a lot of work into it, an unhealthy amount really, and as a result have found its lack of adoption frustrating to the point of just giving up. I use this thing every day, to bookmark and to search, yet I cannot adequately explain it much less motivate people to understand what it does. It feels awful. At any rate, the URL is http://dashler.com/toolbar http://dashler.com/toolbar if you want to take a look. I'm not even sure the idea is a good one, anymore. Of about 1000 visitors, only about 2 use it regularly. I'm ready to scrap the whole thing. I would very much appreciate any advice you could offer pass along. I'm looking to ditch the video and use a slideshow of screenshots, but I'm not even sure where to begin. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1783632 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1783632. Is the HN submission of it. I'd be grateful for any advice! Thank you.
- DiamondsSteak 16y agoFirst of all, don't give up yet! I was watching the video tutorial and it helped explain the concept. I think videos are overdone these days, but this is a case where a live demo helps clarify how much time you save by not typing or clicking on different browser pages to search. I want to play with the site and features to fully understand the benefit of the bookmarklet before providing feedback. In the meantime, here are a couple questions for you: What made you create this bookmarklet? What type of person would most benefit from this tool? (Target market) When you explain the concept to people, at what point do they start getting confused? (Maybe you just need to improve a certain part of the message, not the whole thing.) Where are these 1000 visitors from and why don't they use the tool? (You could be attracting the wrong people, or finding the right people but talking to them in the wrong way.) Of the 2 people who use the tool regularly, what made them decide to use it and why do they like it? (Analyzing successes provides insight for what to continue/repeat in the future.) Why do you think screenshots would be more effective than a video?
- mwbiz 16y agoBloggergirl did a fantastic job on these slides. It is amazing that she took the time to go through the site in so much detail. Thanks for sharing the slides as this is good advice for anyone.
- pclark 16y agoI would pay for someone to review http://readness.com http://readness.com and produce slides with feedback on the messaging, how awesome.