4 ms·

We just did our annual conference GraphConnect in NYC last month. There's a BUNCH of talks online of people who are very successfully and very happily using it

We just did our annual conference GraphConnect in NYC last month. There's a BUNCH of talks online of people who are very successfully and very happily using it in production deployments. Check it out here: https://neo4j.com/graphconnect-2018 https://neo4j.com/graphconnect-2018 Btw, if you've ever stayed at a Marriott (or anyone they now own: Starwood, Hilton, Ritz Carlton) then you've used Neo4j in production (to book that room). If you've ever purchased a flight ticket, then you've used Neo4j in production (over 99% of all fare calculations are done with Neo4j). Etc.

weavie 8y ago
Out of curiosity, how would a graph database help when booking a room? I would have thought a simple table: create table room_booking { roomid, booking_started, booking_ended } and some simple sql to check if any rows exist within the required date range would have covered it? What other aspects am I not considering?
- emileifrem 8y ago
  Oh, there's a bunch of stuff in addition to that. I could give it a shot, but would probably mess it up. :) Way better if you hear it from the horse's mouth. Here's Scott Grimes from Marriott at GraphConnect 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFYEuWWpzo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFYEuWWpzo Pretty amazing stats in there!
  - weavie 8y ago
    Thanks, I'll have a watch when I get the time.
- jeletonskelly 8y ago
  I used to work at an OTA (online travel agency, ie Booking.com, Hotels.com). There's all kinds of complications to what seems to be a pretty simple thing: a building with rooms that are either occupied or not. There's multiple rates per room for a single night, then there's something called room rate plans which I won't get into. In other words: it's more complicated that we think (or than it needs to be).
  - segmondy 8y ago
    This type of things is based solved with Prolog. The issue is that folks are trying to solve declarative problems using procedural/object oriented/functional programming. Because we store data in databases, we have twisted it into a database problem but it's not. book(Room, Rate):- availableBuildings(Buildings), availableRooms(Buildings, Rooms), rate_less_than(Rate, Rooms) cheapest(Rooms, Room). However complex you think this problem is, it's pretty simple. It's a very old problem, scheduling, well understood and solved. Using the wrong tool makes it a nightmare. Using the right tool makes it ridiculously easy. The solution is not the database, but the language.
    - mfrager 8y ago
      Very interesting... my inclination is that you’re probably right. Any tips on how to learn to use Prolog with pulling data from external sources?
      - segmondy 8y ago
        Prolog's DB is just a text file. You can construct a DB file by using SQL to select into a text file. You can use ODBC http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/doc_for?object=section(%27packages/odbc.html%27) http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/doc_for?object=section(%27pa... You can use CSV http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=csv http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=csv I've used the above methods. For RDF, you can load with various methods even over http http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=rdflib http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=rdflib
        e12e 8y ago
        I too would like to hear about getting facts from an sql db, and writing back results from prolog - it's hard to see how a prolog text file can/could be used as a source for transactional problems like booking (making sure the answer you find can be committed while still valid). I suppose one could have a prolog service that came up with suggestions, ordered by preference, and then attempt committing them in order to the actual transactional storage layer. But I don't see how you could avoid re-implementing transactions. With an rdms you could look for options, and attempt a booking in a transaction, and have a fairly established way to resolve conflicts.
j_anstice 8y ago
Do you have any reference material on using neo4j for complex pricing - we're looking at using neo4j for this, and some evidence that it's going well in other places will increase the comfort level.
- emileifrem 8y ago
  Off the top of my head, I know of two big and complex pricing engine projects in production. One is the Marriott one I referenced in a previous post. Scott Grimes spoke about it at GraphConnect 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFYEuWWpzo The other one is confidential but is in the airline industry.

weavie 8y ago

Out of curiosity, how would a graph database help when booking a room? I would have thought a simple table: create table room_booking { roomid, booking_started, booking_ended } and some simple sql to check if any rows exist within the required date range would have covered it? What other aspects am I not considering?

emileifrem 8y ago
Oh, there's a bunch of stuff in addition to that. I could give it a shot, but would probably mess it up. :) Way better if you hear it from the horse's mouth. Here's Scott Grimes from Marriott at GraphConnect 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFYEuWWpzo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFYEuWWpzo Pretty amazing stats in there!
- weavie 8y ago
  Thanks, I'll have a watch when I get the time.
jeletonskelly 8y ago
I used to work at an OTA (online travel agency, ie Booking.com, Hotels.com). There's all kinds of complications to what seems to be a pretty simple thing: a building with rooms that are either occupied or not. There's multiple rates per room for a single night, then there's something called room rate plans which I won't get into. In other words: it's more complicated that we think (or than it needs to be).
- segmondy 8y ago
  This type of things is based solved with Prolog. The issue is that folks are trying to solve declarative problems using procedural/object oriented/functional programming. Because we store data in databases, we have twisted it into a database problem but it's not. book(Room, Rate):- availableBuildings(Buildings), availableRooms(Buildings, Rooms), rate_less_than(Rate, Rooms) cheapest(Rooms, Room). However complex you think this problem is, it's pretty simple. It's a very old problem, scheduling, well understood and solved. Using the wrong tool makes it a nightmare. Using the right tool makes it ridiculously easy. The solution is not the database, but the language.
  - mfrager 8y ago
    Very interesting... my inclination is that you’re probably right. Any tips on how to learn to use Prolog with pulling data from external sources?
    - segmondy 8y ago
      Prolog's DB is just a text file. You can construct a DB file by using SQL to select into a text file. You can use ODBC http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/doc_for?object=section(%27packages/odbc.html%27) http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/doc_for?object=section(%27pa... You can use CSV http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=csv http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=csv I've used the above methods. For RDF, you can load with various methods even over http http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=rdflib http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=rdflib
      - e12e 8y ago
        I too would like to hear about getting facts from an sql db, and writing back results from prolog - it's hard to see how a prolog text file can/could be used as a source for transactional problems like booking (making sure the answer you find can be committed while still valid). I suppose one could have a prolog service that came up with suggestions, ordered by preference, and then attempt committing them in order to the actual transactional storage layer. But I don't see how you could avoid re-implementing transactions. With an rdms you could look for options, and attempt a booking in a transaction, and have a fairly established way to resolve conflicts.

j_anstice 8y ago

Do you have any reference material on using neo4j for complex pricing - we're looking at using neo4j for this, and some evidence that it's going well in other places will increase the comfort level.

emileifrem 8y ago
Off the top of my head, I know of two big and complex pricing engine projects in production. One is the Marriott one I referenced in a previous post. Scott Grimes spoke about it at GraphConnect 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFYEuWWpzo The other one is confidential but is in the airline industry.