6 ms·

Time magazine, which doesn't exactly seem to be a bastion of conservatism, had an article about this http://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/ http://

Time magazine, which doesn't exactly seem to be a bastion of conservatism, had an article about this http://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/ http://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/ , which had more hard-facts than anyone else I've seen, but the conclusion was that most of the claims made by the wage gap supporters are cherrypicked and false. Although, if Google specifically has a problem with it, I'd definitely be willing to listen. If they are protecting people like Rubin, it does seem plausible that other things could be going on.

ChrisRR 8y ago
I feel if anyone has enough employees with similar roles, at similar levels to pull together this kind of data, it's a big company like Google
Zanni 8y ago
Working link: http://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/ http://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/
- brobdingnagians 8y ago
  Thank you and sorry. Updated it now
zimpenfish 8y ago
> Time magazine, which doesn't exactly seem to be a bastion of conservatism Although Christina Hoff Sommers does have a noticeable bias/axe to grind since she's pretty anti-feminism and considers there to be a "war against boys". Also she works for the AEI which is a conservative think tank.
- leereeves 8y ago
  When she talks about the "war against boys", she's talking about the school system. Schools overmedicate and overpunish boys. The system drives boys out of school and as a result, only 40% of college students are male. If an inequality like this went the other way, there would be national outrage. But it's not exactly a "conservative" issue. Plenty of liberals have written about it too: https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/06/stop-penalizing-boys-for-not-being-able-to-sit-still-at-school/276976/ https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/06/stop-penal... https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a32858/drugging-of-the-american-boy-0414/ https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a32858/drugging-of-the... https://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/inside-school-research/2015/07/boys_prescribed_antipsychotics.html https://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/inside-school-research/2015/...
- Nelkins 8y ago
  Agree. When you perform an online search for articles on the "wage gap myth," the majority of the articles seem traceable back to her.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - malvosenior 8y ago
    It's because even though there is no data to support the wage gap, it's very unpopular to question it. Christina Hoff Summers is a pioneer in the field of gender equality and has paid a huge price by actually investigating these issues. It's a risky position to take in today's political climate so not many have followed her footsteps.
    - astura 8y ago
      >there is no data to support the wage gap This is false. https://www.epi.org/publication/what-is-the-gender-pay-gap-and-is-it-real/ https://www.epi.org/publication/what-is-the-gender-pay-gap-a... >it's very unpopular to question it. Also false, it's very popular (and almost cliché) to dismiss it. >Christina Hoff Summers... has paid a huge price by actually investigating these issues. And what price would that be? She seems extremely successful. http://www.aei.org/scholar/christina-hoff-sommers/ http://www.aei.org/scholar/christina-hoff-sommers/
      - malvosenior 8y ago
        From your link: "$3.27 less per hour than men. The median hourly wage is $15.67 for women and $18.94 for men. The gender wage gap is a measure of what women are paid relative to men. It is commonly calculated by dividing women’s wages by men’s wages, and this ratio is often expressed as a percent, or in dollar terms. This tells us how much a woman is paid for each dollar paid to a man. This gender pay ratio is often measured for year-round, full-time workers and compares the annual wages (of hourly wage and salaried workers) of the median (“typical”) man with that of the median (“typical”) woman; measured this way, the current gender pay ratio is 0.796, or, expressed as a percent, it is 79.6 percent (U.S. Census Bureau 2016). In other words, for every dollar a man makes, a woman makes about 80 cents." It's meaningless to compare different positions pay to each other. "Typical" men vs "typical" women doesn't tell us anything about potential discrimination.
- jimbokun 8y ago
  "Christina Hoff Sommers does not agree with my positions on issues therefore is biased and cannot be trusted, compared to people who do agree with my positions on issues, who are not biased and can be trusted."
- jshevek 8y ago
  "a noticeable bias/axe to grind since she's pretty anti-feminism and considers there to be a "war against boys". Also she works for the AEI which is a conservative think tank." This strikes me as "poisoning the well."
  - danmg 8y ago
    There is a war against boys. We medicated an entire generation with psychotropic drugs to make them more passive.
    - jshevek 8y ago
      The phrase strikes me as hyperbolic, but I agree there is a real problem underlying it. My point was that people should base their opinions on CHS' claims on her evidence and arguments, rather than who she associates with.
      - danmg 8y ago
        What would you call it then?
        jshevek 8y ago
        For me personally, I would try to talk about the specific issues and describe them, as you did in the second part of your comment. I understand there is a definitely place for using a simple phrase to characterize a larger pattern of inequality. Even using dramatic, colorful phrases which capture the imagination also have their place in the world. Edit: I'm not trying to change your approach, I'm just being blunt about my opinions. I appreciate your open mindedness.
        danmg 8y ago
        But the problem is systemic and it needs to be named directly. Skirting around the edges of the problem, trying to be indirect, will not be effective.
- hhjinks 8y ago
  >considers there to be a "war against boys" How is there not? Literally every modern school system favors activities that disproportionally disadvantage young boys. Boys and young men are dropping out of school at a far larger rate than women, and literally nobody cares. It's a travesty.
nextstep 8y ago
Time magazine is absolutely a right-of-center publication. Here’s a nice piece they published last week calling for more nationalism in the US: http://amp.timeinc.net/time/5431089/trump-white-nationalism-bible http://amp.timeinc.net/time/5431089/trump-white-nationalism-...
- EpicEng 8y ago
  No it's not. You cherry picked an editorial written by an outside contributor. At the bottom you have: >TIME Ideas hosts the world's leading voices, providing commentary on events in news, society, and culture. We welcome outside contributions. Opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of TIME editors. You cannot label an entire outlet conservative or liberal because they bring in people of opposing views to write editorials unless there is an established bias over time (which you have not shown.) It took me all of twenty seconds to find a liberal leaning editorial: http://time.com/5431836/dna-transgender-history/ http://time.com/5431836/dna-transgender-history/ Which part of the wage gap article do you disagree with?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- agilebyte 8y ago
  Left of Center Bias https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/time/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/time/

ChrisRR 8y ago

I feel if anyone has enough employees with similar roles, at similar levels to pull together this kind of data, it's a big company like Google

Zanni 8y ago

Working link: http://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/ http://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/

brobdingnagians 8y ago
Thank you and sorry. Updated it now

zimpenfish 8y ago

> Time magazine, which doesn't exactly seem to be a bastion of conservatism Although Christina Hoff Sommers does have a noticeable bias/axe to grind since she's pretty anti-feminism and considers there to be a "war against boys". Also she works for the AEI which is a conservative think tank.

leereeves 8y ago
When she talks about the "war against boys", she's talking about the school system. Schools overmedicate and overpunish boys. The system drives boys out of school and as a result, only 40% of college students are male. If an inequality like this went the other way, there would be national outrage. But it's not exactly a "conservative" issue. Plenty of liberals have written about it too: https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/06/stop-penalizing-boys-for-not-being-able-to-sit-still-at-school/276976/ https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/06/stop-penal... https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a32858/drugging-of-the-american-boy-0414/ https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a32858/drugging-of-the... https://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/inside-school-research/2015/07/boys_prescribed_antipsychotics.html https://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/inside-school-research/2015/...
Nelkins 8y ago
Agree. When you perform an online search for articles on the "wage gap myth," the majority of the articles seem traceable back to her.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- malvosenior 8y ago
  It's because even though there is no data to support the wage gap, it's very unpopular to question it. Christina Hoff Summers is a pioneer in the field of gender equality and has paid a huge price by actually investigating these issues. It's a risky position to take in today's political climate so not many have followed her footsteps.
  - astura 8y ago
    >there is no data to support the wage gap This is false. https://www.epi.org/publication/what-is-the-gender-pay-gap-and-is-it-real/ https://www.epi.org/publication/what-is-the-gender-pay-gap-a... >it's very unpopular to question it. Also false, it's very popular (and almost cliché) to dismiss it. >Christina Hoff Summers... has paid a huge price by actually investigating these issues. And what price would that be? She seems extremely successful. http://www.aei.org/scholar/christina-hoff-sommers/ http://www.aei.org/scholar/christina-hoff-sommers/
    - malvosenior 8y ago
      From your link: "$3.27 less per hour than men. The median hourly wage is $15.67 for women and $18.94 for men. The gender wage gap is a measure of what women are paid relative to men. It is commonly calculated by dividing women’s wages by men’s wages, and this ratio is often expressed as a percent, or in dollar terms. This tells us how much a woman is paid for each dollar paid to a man. This gender pay ratio is often measured for year-round, full-time workers and compares the annual wages (of hourly wage and salaried workers) of the median (“typical”) man with that of the median (“typical”) woman; measured this way, the current gender pay ratio is 0.796, or, expressed as a percent, it is 79.6 percent (U.S. Census Bureau 2016). In other words, for every dollar a man makes, a woman makes about 80 cents." It's meaningless to compare different positions pay to each other. "Typical" men vs "typical" women doesn't tell us anything about potential discrimination.
jimbokun 8y ago
"Christina Hoff Sommers does not agree with my positions on issues therefore is biased and cannot be trusted, compared to people who do agree with my positions on issues, who are not biased and can be trusted."
jshevek 8y ago
"a noticeable bias/axe to grind since she's pretty anti-feminism and considers there to be a "war against boys". Also she works for the AEI which is a conservative think tank." This strikes me as "poisoning the well."
- danmg 8y ago
  There is a war against boys. We medicated an entire generation with psychotropic drugs to make them more passive.
  - jshevek 8y ago
    The phrase strikes me as hyperbolic, but I agree there is a real problem underlying it. My point was that people should base their opinions on CHS' claims on her evidence and arguments, rather than who she associates with.
    - danmg 8y ago
      What would you call it then?
      - jshevek 8y ago
        For me personally, I would try to talk about the specific issues and describe them, as you did in the second part of your comment. I understand there is a definitely place for using a simple phrase to characterize a larger pattern of inequality. Even using dramatic, colorful phrases which capture the imagination also have their place in the world. Edit: I'm not trying to change your approach, I'm just being blunt about my opinions. I appreciate your open mindedness.
        danmg 8y ago
        But the problem is systemic and it needs to be named directly. Skirting around the edges of the problem, trying to be indirect, will not be effective.
hhjinks 8y ago
>considers there to be a "war against boys" How is there not? Literally every modern school system favors activities that disproportionally disadvantage young boys. Boys and young men are dropping out of school at a far larger rate than women, and literally nobody cares. It's a travesty.

nextstep 8y ago

Time magazine is absolutely a right-of-center publication. Here’s a nice piece they published last week calling for more nationalism in the US: http://amp.timeinc.net/time/5431089/trump-white-nationalism-bible http://amp.timeinc.net/time/5431089/trump-white-nationalism-...

EpicEng 8y ago
No it's not. You cherry picked an editorial written by an outside contributor. At the bottom you have: >TIME Ideas hosts the world's leading voices, providing commentary on events in news, society, and culture. We welcome outside contributions. Opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of TIME editors. You cannot label an entire outlet conservative or liberal because they bring in people of opposing views to write editorials unless there is an established bias over time (which you have not shown.) It took me all of twenty seconds to find a liberal leaning editorial: http://time.com/5431836/dna-transgender-history/ http://time.com/5431836/dna-transgender-history/ Which part of the wage gap article do you disagree with?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
agilebyte 8y ago
Left of Center Bias https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/time/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/time/