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Love the device but I can't get over how expensive it has gotten. A 20% price bump... Sure, there's still the old Macbook Air around, but it wasn't updated and

Love the device but I can't get over how expensive it has gotten. A 20% price bump... Sure, there's still the old Macbook Air around, but it wasn't updated and is based on a decade old model with a CPU/GPU that's a 3 years old (5th gen i5 from 2015), and a 128 PPI screen, that's a bit ridiculous. If you want a modern machine you're looking at $1200 for the cheapest model. That isn't even too bad but when you go abroad, all bets are off. I still don't get this. USD/EUR rate has been as high as 1.4 and as low as 1.05 in the past 5 years, averaging about 1.2 USD/EUR. So a $1200 Macbook Air should be €1000, typically. It's not. Instead it's more, €1350. Or in dollar terms, that's about $1620 at the 5y average exchange rates. That's what EU students have to pay for a modern but entry-level Macbook in the new Air. The regular Macbook or Macbook Pro are of course even more expensive. Okay so part of this is silly exchange rates and pricing, some of it related to high EU VAT by the way, not just Apple's pricing. But part of it is also a pretty damn expensive lineup, with this new Macbook Air coming in at 20% higher prices than the previous model. Yes prices tend to move up, inflation is a thing... but technology is supposed to be the exception, where you can get better specs after a few years without moving the price point. They just bumped it up 20%, that's pretty ridiculous.

Xixi 8y ago
You are comparing prices without VAT to prices with VAT. In France VAT is 20%, quite typical in the EU, so the comparison is not fair at all. There's VAT in many states and cities in the United States, although typically at rates much lower than in the EU. Buying a MacBook Air in New York City for instance will be at least $1,300 (combined VAT rate of 8.875%). [EDIT] Granted, the exchange rate is not great, but it's definitely not as bad as you make it sounds. In the EU sticker price is the final price, in the US the sticker price is a baseline on top of which any ridiculous fee and unexpected tax can (and will) be added. Unlike in the EU you really don't know how much you will pay until you get the final bill...
- klodolph 8y ago
  There’s currently no VAT in the US, there used to be a VAT in Michigan but currently there are only sales and use taxes, which aren’t universal. Buying a MacBoox Air for $1,199 in Oregon will cost $1,199 out of pocket.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    He's using "VAT" as a generic term. Think "sales tax."
  - Xixi 8y ago
    Indeed you are correct, I'm not using the term VAT correctly. But here in New York you still have to go through three layers of sales taxes to acquire your MacBook Air: New York City local sales and use tax rate of 4.5%, New York State sales and use tax rate of 4%, and Metropolitan Commuter Transportation District surcharge of 0.375% My main point was that it makes little sense to compare prices US prices without sales tax to EU prices with the VAT included. The second -more subtle- point that I wanted to get into but was really only skimming, is that the very meaning of the price on a sticker is vastly different in the EU and in US. In the EU if you write 1,350 EUR on a sticker, anyone can walk in your store and buy that product at that price without paying a eurocent more. No handling fees, service fees, sales tax or any other obscure hidden tax. This is the law. Sticker price is final price. If it's not on the sticker the merchant has to pay for it. It's quite a shock when you first walk in a store in New York City while visiting from France and the price asked at checkout is not the one written on the sticker. The law is the same for online sales, though shipping costs don't have to be included. Ridiculous $30 dollars "handling fees" or "service fees" on $50 tickets that you print at home, added at the very end of the lengthy checkout process, are to my knowledge completely forbidden. I'll be happy (in fact I'll be sad) to be corrected if I am wrong about that.
    - bluedino 8y ago
      Ironically I buy from stores in New York or New Jersey over the internet and pay no tax in my home state. Adorama or B&H Photo
- IkmoIkmo 8y ago
  Fair point! But average sales tax in the US is about $100. It's still a $350 difference.
  - Xixi 8y ago
    That's not an exchange rate issue, that's a political one. Presumably you get something out of these high sales tax, in the form of cheaper education, cheaper healthcare, better infrastructures, or a better social net. Why would Apple close that gap by charging the American customers more? If you want cheaper sales taxes, vote accordingly. Don't ask Apple to cover the difference. Though you could argue that if Apple was paying its fair share of taxes (for your own favorite definition of fair share of taxes), maybe VAT could be lowered. Again, that's a political issue, not an exchange rate issue.
    - IkmoIkmo 8y ago
      You misunderstand me, I'm saying after you take out the difference in sales tax you're still left with about a $350 gap that has nothing to do with sales tax. I've got no complaints about the sales tax.
      - Xixi 8y ago
        Let's compare prices without sales tax then. US: 1,199 USD vs France: 1,124.17 EUR. 1,124.17 EUR translates to 1,275.31 USD according to Google, at the time of this writing. That's a difference of about 75 USD. Not great, but where do you get a 350 USD gap? [EDIT] That $75 difference could actually be explained by the extra year of warranty for the EU version. Not the greatest bargain maybe, but Apple is hardly ripping off EU customers there. At least not more than the US ones...
Joeri 8y ago
The EU has higher warranty coverage (2 years instead of one), and that is priced in. The second year of keyboard replacements surely drives up the price.
- YetAnotherNick 8y ago
  > The second year of keyboard replacements surely drives up the price. Isn't keyboard replacement free worldwide for 4 years?
  - starbugs 8y ago
    It's not free for Apple and it's likely cutting into their margin, hence the theory that they priced it in.
  - Joeri 8y ago
    That program doesn’t cover the 2018 models.
- IkmoIkmo 8y ago
  Good point, this surely makes some difference, although doesn't explain the entire amount. You can get 2 extra years of warranty for $250 through an AppleCare product. I'd assume the third year is most expensive, so the first year would be less than $125, perhaps $100. And I'd assume they make a bit of profit on this insurance product, meaning the true cost of the warranty is less than $100, say it's $90 (assuming unusually low profit margins for Apple). Further this product offers discounted service fees for accidental damage too, which isn't part of a regular warranty. As such, the cost of the warranty itself is likely to be even less than $90. All of these are assumptions pulled out of my ass but I think it's probably safe to say the extra first year of the warranty to cost Apple less than $100. The VAT in the US averages $100. That still leaves a $250 gap with EU prices. Definitely not as big as it seemed to me originally. Still I'd hope that gap may narrow a little bit in future! As for the specific keyboard issue, I believe the warranty on that (and some other big Apple issues) is extended by a few years everywhere, so shouldn't explain regional differences in pricing.
YetAnotherNick 8y ago
I think the entry level macbook pro is better buy than this. For $100, the CPU is much better, and very likely the build quality too. And everything else including weight, keyboard, ports, battery life etc. mostly the same.
- pentae 8y ago
  The thermals on the entry level Macbook pro (non touchbar) is atrocious. It has one less fan than the touchbar model and runs hotter and unless you're in an icy cold room it's guaranteed to make your palms sweaty like a teenager on prom night. I would imagine that the new power-sipping i5 they've put in the MBA will run much cooler.
  - asdff 8y ago
    Every aluminum Macbook makes your palms sweaty, the aluminum body is designed to shed heat. Even a charging iPhone can get very hot just browsing HN. I don't think Apple has ever produced a machine that runs cool to the touch.
    - pentae 8y ago
      They have made one - the original Macbook Air
- enraged_camel 8y ago
  The new MBA has touch ID though, whereas the entry level MBP doesn't. The convenience IS a lot of value for some people.
  - 2color 8y ago
    Do you think it's worth it over the entry level MBP considering the difference in the CPU?
    - gumby 8y ago
JustSomeNobody 8y ago
Welcome to the world where shareholders are valued more than customers. Honest, we consumers used to reap the benefits of tech advancing. Now the shareholders do.
cauthon 8y ago
> Love the device but I can't get over how expensive it has gotten. A 20% price bump... I got downvoted for posting this as a top-level comment, but it's insane to me how Apple's hardware specs have stagnated while maintaining the same price. In 2014 I bought an entry-level Macbook Pro with retina display, 2.6 GHz i5 processor, 8 GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD for $1300. In 2018 I can buy the entry-level Macbook Pro with retina display, 2.3 GHz i5 processor, 8 GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD, still for $1300. In 2018 I can also now buy an entry-level Macbook Air with retina display, 1.6 GHz i5 processor, 8 GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD for $1200. I'm in the market for a new laptop and I'm seriously considering making the jump to Linux rather than paying the same price for the same specs that were available 4.5 years ago.
- jtbayly 8y ago
  I'm sympathetic to the complaint about price, but if your contention is that the devices are basically unchanged, then why buy a 2018 model? Why not buy a 2014 model? And if you don't want to make that sacrifice, then there's probably something different about the device that Apple is assuming is worth ponying up for the upgrade for you. (For starters, despite the similar clock speed and processor names, the processors are not the same speed.)
  - merb 8y ago
    > (For starters, despite the similar clock speed and processor names, the processors are not the same speed.) of course not, it's at least 4 years older. I mean that would not be fair to compare them. I have a Late 2013 Mbp 15" it was priced at ~2.200€ it was the "entry" model of the mbp 15" however if you look now the price is going to the roof. 2.799,00 € is the new price, of course the processor is now faster, there are 4 years in between (well clock speed is lower, but more cores). What else has changed? Of couse It lost it's sd slot, and also lost 256gb of ssd storage (if you want the same storage than the 2013 model you need to pay an increase of 240 €!) what did also change? the graphics card, it now is a radeon (and of course more clock speed, it's 4 years older. So how did the price changed: * Late 2013 15" MBP: ~2.200,00 € (cheapest) * Curr 2018 15" MBP: 2.799,00 € (cheapest) * 2018 15" MBP: 3.039,00 € (same storage space) that is totally unreasonable. The processor does not cost 600 € more (btw the i7-4850HQ costed roughly ~400€ hard to say since prices of that processor aren't well known, however the current mbp uses the i7-8750H which is actually priced officaly at 400 $, so should be less euro, but keep it 1:1 it would mean no increase) of course memory prices gone through the roof, but since that's the cheapest component that would justify a maximum of 100 €. SO tl;dr Late 2013 to Current with newer hardware for the same price means a increase of 839 € or 599 € (you can even remove 100€ and it wouldn't be ok) if you can take the storage hit. and all you get is a touchbar, which you probably might need or not.
Dirlewanger 8y ago
> where you can get better specs after a few years without moving the price point. Yeah you can do that...on an OS that isn't locked to one hardware vendor i.e. Windows and Linux.
8ytecoder 8y ago
Is that price inclusive of VAT? US prices don't include it by default and it can be up to 7.25% depending on the state and city.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  It can be higher than 7.25%, but I'm only 2-3 hours away from Portland Oregon so whatever.
rayiner 8y ago
The lowest-priced Macbook was $1099 in 2006, which is $1370 accounting for inflation. The $999 model was actually the exception, probably priced that low on account of being long-in-the-tooth.

Xixi 8y ago

You are comparing prices without VAT to prices with VAT. In France VAT is 20%, quite typical in the EU, so the comparison is not fair at all. There's VAT in many states and cities in the United States, although typically at rates much lower than in the EU. Buying a MacBook Air in New York City for instance will be at least $1,300 (combined VAT rate of 8.875%). [EDIT] Granted, the exchange rate is not great, but it's definitely not as bad as you make it sounds. In the EU sticker price is the final price, in the US the sticker price is a baseline on top of which any ridiculous fee and unexpected tax can (and will) be added. Unlike in the EU you really don't know how much you will pay until you get the final bill...

klodolph 8y ago
There’s currently no VAT in the US, there used to be a VAT in Michigan but currently there are only sales and use taxes, which aren’t universal. Buying a MacBoox Air for $1,199 in Oregon will cost $1,199 out of pocket.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  He's using "VAT" as a generic term. Think "sales tax."
- Xixi 8y ago
  Indeed you are correct, I'm not using the term VAT correctly. But here in New York you still have to go through three layers of sales taxes to acquire your MacBook Air: New York City local sales and use tax rate of 4.5%, New York State sales and use tax rate of 4%, and Metropolitan Commuter Transportation District surcharge of 0.375% My main point was that it makes little sense to compare prices US prices without sales tax to EU prices with the VAT included. The second -more subtle- point that I wanted to get into but was really only skimming, is that the very meaning of the price on a sticker is vastly different in the EU and in US. In the EU if you write 1,350 EUR on a sticker, anyone can walk in your store and buy that product at that price without paying a eurocent more. No handling fees, service fees, sales tax or any other obscure hidden tax. This is the law. Sticker price is final price. If it's not on the sticker the merchant has to pay for it. It's quite a shock when you first walk in a store in New York City while visiting from France and the price asked at checkout is not the one written on the sticker. The law is the same for online sales, though shipping costs don't have to be included. Ridiculous $30 dollars "handling fees" or "service fees" on $50 tickets that you print at home, added at the very end of the lengthy checkout process, are to my knowledge completely forbidden. I'll be happy (in fact I'll be sad) to be corrected if I am wrong about that.
  - bluedino 8y ago
    Ironically I buy from stores in New York or New Jersey over the internet and pay no tax in my home state. Adorama or B&H Photo
IkmoIkmo 8y ago
Fair point! But average sales tax in the US is about $100. It's still a $350 difference.
- Xixi 8y ago
  That's not an exchange rate issue, that's a political one. Presumably you get something out of these high sales tax, in the form of cheaper education, cheaper healthcare, better infrastructures, or a better social net. Why would Apple close that gap by charging the American customers more? If you want cheaper sales taxes, vote accordingly. Don't ask Apple to cover the difference. Though you could argue that if Apple was paying its fair share of taxes (for your own favorite definition of fair share of taxes), maybe VAT could be lowered. Again, that's a political issue, not an exchange rate issue.
  - IkmoIkmo 8y ago
    You misunderstand me, I'm saying after you take out the difference in sales tax you're still left with about a $350 gap that has nothing to do with sales tax. I've got no complaints about the sales tax.
    - Xixi 8y ago
      Let's compare prices without sales tax then. US: 1,199 USD vs France: 1,124.17 EUR. 1,124.17 EUR translates to 1,275.31 USD according to Google, at the time of this writing. That's a difference of about 75 USD. Not great, but where do you get a 350 USD gap? [EDIT] That $75 difference could actually be explained by the extra year of warranty for the EU version. Not the greatest bargain maybe, but Apple is hardly ripping off EU customers there. At least not more than the US ones...

Joeri 8y ago

The EU has higher warranty coverage (2 years instead of one), and that is priced in. The second year of keyboard replacements surely drives up the price.

YetAnotherNick 8y ago
> The second year of keyboard replacements surely drives up the price. Isn't keyboard replacement free worldwide for 4 years?
- starbugs 8y ago
  It's not free for Apple and it's likely cutting into their margin, hence the theory that they priced it in.
- Joeri 8y ago
  That program doesn’t cover the 2018 models.
IkmoIkmo 8y ago
Good point, this surely makes some difference, although doesn't explain the entire amount. You can get 2 extra years of warranty for $250 through an AppleCare product. I'd assume the third year is most expensive, so the first year would be less than $125, perhaps $100. And I'd assume they make a bit of profit on this insurance product, meaning the true cost of the warranty is less than $100, say it's $90 (assuming unusually low profit margins for Apple). Further this product offers discounted service fees for accidental damage too, which isn't part of a regular warranty. As such, the cost of the warranty itself is likely to be even less than $90. All of these are assumptions pulled out of my ass but I think it's probably safe to say the extra first year of the warranty to cost Apple less than $100. The VAT in the US averages $100. That still leaves a $250 gap with EU prices. Definitely not as big as it seemed to me originally. Still I'd hope that gap may narrow a little bit in future! As for the specific keyboard issue, I believe the warranty on that (and some other big Apple issues) is extended by a few years everywhere, so shouldn't explain regional differences in pricing.

YetAnotherNick 8y ago

I think the entry level macbook pro is better buy than this. For $100, the CPU is much better, and very likely the build quality too. And everything else including weight, keyboard, ports, battery life etc. mostly the same.

pentae 8y ago
The thermals on the entry level Macbook pro (non touchbar) is atrocious. It has one less fan than the touchbar model and runs hotter and unless you're in an icy cold room it's guaranteed to make your palms sweaty like a teenager on prom night. I would imagine that the new power-sipping i5 they've put in the MBA will run much cooler.
- asdff 8y ago
  Every aluminum Macbook makes your palms sweaty, the aluminum body is designed to shed heat. Even a charging iPhone can get very hot just browsing HN. I don't think Apple has ever produced a machine that runs cool to the touch.
  - pentae 8y ago
    They have made one - the original Macbook Air
enraged_camel 8y ago
The new MBA has touch ID though, whereas the entry level MBP doesn't. The convenience IS a lot of value for some people.
- 2color 8y ago
  Do you think it's worth it over the entry level MBP considering the difference in the CPU?
  - gumby 8y ago

JustSomeNobody 8y ago

Welcome to the world where shareholders are valued more than customers. Honest, we consumers used to reap the benefits of tech advancing. Now the shareholders do.

cauthon 8y ago

> Love the device but I can't get over how expensive it has gotten. A 20% price bump... I got downvoted for posting this as a top-level comment, but it's insane to me how Apple's hardware specs have stagnated while maintaining the same price. In 2014 I bought an entry-level Macbook Pro with retina display, 2.6 GHz i5 processor, 8 GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD for $1300. In 2018 I can buy the entry-level Macbook Pro with retina display, 2.3 GHz i5 processor, 8 GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD, still for $1300. In 2018 I can also now buy an entry-level Macbook Air with retina display, 1.6 GHz i5 processor, 8 GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD for $1200. I'm in the market for a new laptop and I'm seriously considering making the jump to Linux rather than paying the same price for the same specs that were available 4.5 years ago.

jtbayly 8y ago
I'm sympathetic to the complaint about price, but if your contention is that the devices are basically unchanged, then why buy a 2018 model? Why not buy a 2014 model? And if you don't want to make that sacrifice, then there's probably something different about the device that Apple is assuming is worth ponying up for the upgrade for you. (For starters, despite the similar clock speed and processor names, the processors are not the same speed.)
- merb 8y ago
  > (For starters, despite the similar clock speed and processor names, the processors are not the same speed.) of course not, it's at least 4 years older. I mean that would not be fair to compare them. I have a Late 2013 Mbp 15" it was priced at ~2.200€ it was the "entry" model of the mbp 15" however if you look now the price is going to the roof. 2.799,00 € is the new price, of course the processor is now faster, there are 4 years in between (well clock speed is lower, but more cores). What else has changed? Of couse It lost it's sd slot, and also lost 256gb of ssd storage (if you want the same storage than the 2013 model you need to pay an increase of 240 €!) what did also change? the graphics card, it now is a radeon (and of course more clock speed, it's 4 years older. So how did the price changed: * Late 2013 15" MBP: ~2.200,00 € (cheapest) * Curr 2018 15" MBP: 2.799,00 € (cheapest) * 2018 15" MBP: 3.039,00 € (same storage space) that is totally unreasonable. The processor does not cost 600 € more (btw the i7-4850HQ costed roughly ~400€ hard to say since prices of that processor aren't well known, however the current mbp uses the i7-8750H which is actually priced officaly at 400 $, so should be less euro, but keep it 1:1 it would mean no increase) of course memory prices gone through the roof, but since that's the cheapest component that would justify a maximum of 100 €. SO tl;dr Late 2013 to Current with newer hardware for the same price means a increase of 839 € or 599 € (you can even remove 100€ and it wouldn't be ok) if you can take the storage hit. and all you get is a touchbar, which you probably might need or not.

Dirlewanger 8y ago

> where you can get better specs after a few years without moving the price point. Yeah you can do that...on an OS that isn't locked to one hardware vendor i.e. Windows and Linux.

8ytecoder 8y ago

Is that price inclusive of VAT? US prices don't include it by default and it can be up to 7.25% depending on the state and city.

seanmcdirmid 8y ago
It can be higher than 7.25%, but I'm only 2-3 hours away from Portland Oregon so whatever.

rayiner 8y ago

The lowest-priced Macbook was $1099 in 2006, which is $1370 accounting for inflation. The $999 model was actually the exception, probably priced that low on account of being long-in-the-tooth.