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> Ruth pointed out some cameras that were put up have been taken down after they fell short of daily contract-quota with Xerox to produce 25 citations, per came

> Ruth pointed out some cameras that were put up have been taken down after they fell short of daily contract-quota with Xerox to produce 25 citations, per camera, between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m., which costs Suffolk County $2,132 per day, according to the Xerox contract with the county. > Xerox collects $13 from Suffolk County for each ticket, which increases to $33 per ticket when a camera generates more than 90 tickets in a month. Wow, talk about a misalignment of incentives.

dmix 8y ago
> Wow, talk about a misalignment of incentives. Even though I lean libertarian I despise most of these public/private partnerships for this reason. Profit seeking combined with governments use of force (for monopoly or as part of the business model) is almost always worse than pure public services or markets. Private prisons are a classic example of that, but there are countless less obvious ones in every local government. And it sucks because people blame capitalism for these failures, despite the arrangement looking nothing like a traditional market.
- mrcsparker 8y ago
  I lean very libertarian, especially when it comes to criminal justice and sentencing reform. Private prisons can be seen as a byproduct of over-criminalization and over-enforcement. These red light cameras are in the same world where government sees the tightening of enforcement as a valid revenue model.
  - 113 8y ago
    Over-criminalization is a byproduct of a for-profit prison system.
    - dmix 8y ago
      Has there ever been a study that has proven this? I hate the idea of private prisons but I've always been skeptical that prison owners can influence the justice system sentencing or law enforcement policies.
- Spooky23 8y ago
  In my mind public/private partnerships are problematic from a simply on the basis of debt. Government is great at borrowing money at good rates for capital purposes, while the cost of capital for a private entity is always higher.
- chottocharaii 8y ago
  All traditional markets require the use of force; just its limited in effect by consent in contract.
  - dmix 8y ago
    The market may require it at some point but it's not fundamental to the organizations business-models which is very, very different. Society as a whole is structured around these forces as well, so there is no way any economic system can operate without it. And we're better off for it. 99% of libertarians are for minimal government use of force, not zero government.
Scoundreller 8y ago
And poor writing. Is that $2k/day for each camera, or for the system? If over 90 tickets/month, is it $33 for all tickets, or each over 90?

dmix 8y ago

> Wow, talk about a misalignment of incentives. Even though I lean libertarian I despise most of these public/private partnerships for this reason. Profit seeking combined with governments use of force (for monopoly or as part of the business model) is almost always worse than pure public services or markets. Private prisons are a classic example of that, but there are countless less obvious ones in every local government. And it sucks because people blame capitalism for these failures, despite the arrangement looking nothing like a traditional market.

mrcsparker 8y ago
I lean very libertarian, especially when it comes to criminal justice and sentencing reform. Private prisons can be seen as a byproduct of over-criminalization and over-enforcement. These red light cameras are in the same world where government sees the tightening of enforcement as a valid revenue model.
- 113 8y ago
  Over-criminalization is a byproduct of a for-profit prison system.
  - dmix 8y ago
    Has there ever been a study that has proven this? I hate the idea of private prisons but I've always been skeptical that prison owners can influence the justice system sentencing or law enforcement policies.
Spooky23 8y ago
In my mind public/private partnerships are problematic from a simply on the basis of debt. Government is great at borrowing money at good rates for capital purposes, while the cost of capital for a private entity is always higher.
chottocharaii 8y ago
All traditional markets require the use of force; just its limited in effect by consent in contract.
- dmix 8y ago
  The market may require it at some point but it's not fundamental to the organizations business-models which is very, very different. Society as a whole is structured around these forces as well, so there is no way any economic system can operate without it. And we're better off for it. 99% of libertarians are for minimal government use of force, not zero government.

Scoundreller 8y ago

And poor writing. Is that $2k/day for each camera, or for the system? If over 90 tickets/month, is it $33 for all tickets, or each over 90?