7 ms·

I know this gets said a lot, but I live for the day the world sees innovation and quality tech companies from Europe instead of taxation and regulation.

jacquesm 8y ago
There is plenty of innovation and quality tech in Europe and governments tend to levy taxes, in Europe, and elsewhere.
turbinerneiter 8y ago
Honestly, you have to be pretty ignorant to hold this opinion.
- ackidacki 8y ago
  Actually it is more informed than ignorant. Remove Sweden and UK from the the European list and you have needles in a haystack. Even if you account for the 'unicorn' adge there is barely have innovation in Europe. On the social front too too, European pay and ownership is more concentrated in the hands of the leaders and is less evenly distributed than American counterparts. Your comment strikes me a bit as if it comes from a defensive point of view instead of taking a hard look at things.
  - retromario 8y ago
    > On the social front too too, European pay and ownership is more concentrated in the hands of the leaders and is less evenly distributed than American counterparts. I would be very surprised if this was the case. Could you please back this statement with data?
  - opaque 8y ago
    > Remove Sweden and UK from the the European list and you have needles in a haystack. Remove California and New York from the US list and ...
    - bepotts 8y ago
      California and New York are part of the United States. I know people sometimes don't understand this, but the better comparison would be "remove London from the United Kingdom". See how dumb that sounds? That's how dumb "remove California and New York from the US" is.
      - hutattedonmyarm 8y ago
        And Sweden and the UK are part of Europe, so what's the difference?
- bepotts 8y ago
  So I keep hearing but not ever seeing. I know people on the internet love to talk Europe up as some leading tech innovator, but there's a reason why Americans worry about competition coming from either inside America or China. Europeans should worry more about building quality companies and broadening their tax base instead of getting salty about the money saved from foreigners.
  - mehh 8y ago
    Its about fragmentation, Europe is fragmented by countries (governments), language, culture and law. US and China, not so much, a company has an immediate larger reach, and has less scaling issues than it would in Europe. Consider also the access to funding, how many small pots of money is there in europe all disjointed, compared to funds in China/US. Consider the focus companies can get in China with government support, its what makes china such a threat to the US. US has arguably accelerated areas via military R&D.
chongli 8y ago
There's lots of innovation and quality tech in Europe. We just don't see it because Europe has much greater diversity of language and culture than North America. This means that companies can target a niche in their country that has zero relevance to Americans. Not everything of value needs to be a billion dollar unicorn. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- bepotts 8y ago
  English is the business language of the world. I highly doubt there's some tech epicenter near Brussels that would rival Silicon Valley (or even New York City, Seattle, or Austin) if only those companies spoke English. And sure being a Unicorn is everything, but it sure as hell isn't nothing. I have no doubt there there is a company in Europe doing something amazing, but Europe doesn't have a culture that continues to churn these companies out and I can't help but believe that their approach to regulation and taxation is apart of the problem. They get so giddy about regulation that it's kinda baffling. Regulation should be thought of an unnecessary evil - not some exciting project.
  - dtf 8y ago
    It’s the second biggest economy in the world. They’re not that backward.
  - mattmanser 8y ago
    I remember some tech crunch reporter claiming they'd never heard of a nine figure tech sale in Europe, the same day as a local business in my home city (Nottingham) was sold for over £100 million. It's not that we don't have a tech industry in Europe, it's just that US tech reporters are often insular, ignorant and lazy.
    - tomcam 8y ago
      > US tech reporters are often insular, ignorant and lazy. And then there are the bad ones…
  - 8y ago
Daishiman 8y ago
So... that means that the restauranteurs, skilled tradesmen and everyone else should be bearing the burden, and not the extremely profitable tech companies? I don't know how you arrive at that logic.
- microcolonel 8y ago
  Unlike in the U.S, those lower mid earners are the people bearing the tax burden in much of W/NW Europe. The overall tax rate for a person earning less than median income is over 50% in Sweden (granted some of that is about mandatory charges for services like health insurance, which differ in being technically optional to Americans in the 5-45th percentile, and somewhat universal to those below).
apapli 8y ago
Only a couple of data points, and I recognise these are not a trend, but: 1) Estonia have been doing some interesting things recently. In fact, they contributed a lot to Skype in the early days. 2) a significant portion of developers etc for Upwork are European. 3) SAP 4) Trust pilot 5) Zendesk Cheers!
KineticLensman 8y ago
> innovation and quality tech companies from Europe Brit here (still in Europe for the moment). There is a lot if you include aerospace and pharma, less if you just consider software. The only non-British European software I've used and could remember off the top of my head was SAP. This made me think - what countries have sourced the software on my home PC? It's mainly American with a couple of outliers: e.g. New Zealand for Otoy's Octane renderer, a UK anti-virus package (ESET), and ... that's it. EDIT: Oops, ESET is Slovakian.
- egman_ekki 8y ago
  (ESET is from Slovakia, but still European)
  - KineticLensman 8y ago
    Oops - I've corrected my comment. I was confusing ESET UK with the parent company.

jacquesm 8y ago

There is plenty of innovation and quality tech in Europe and governments tend to levy taxes, in Europe, and elsewhere.

turbinerneiter 8y ago

Honestly, you have to be pretty ignorant to hold this opinion.

ackidacki 8y ago
Actually it is more informed than ignorant. Remove Sweden and UK from the the European list and you have needles in a haystack. Even if you account for the 'unicorn' adge there is barely have innovation in Europe. On the social front too too, European pay and ownership is more concentrated in the hands of the leaders and is less evenly distributed than American counterparts. Your comment strikes me a bit as if it comes from a defensive point of view instead of taking a hard look at things.
- retromario 8y ago
  > On the social front too too, European pay and ownership is more concentrated in the hands of the leaders and is less evenly distributed than American counterparts. I would be very surprised if this was the case. Could you please back this statement with data?
- opaque 8y ago
  > Remove Sweden and UK from the the European list and you have needles in a haystack. Remove California and New York from the US list and ...
  - bepotts 8y ago
    California and New York are part of the United States. I know people sometimes don't understand this, but the better comparison would be "remove London from the United Kingdom". See how dumb that sounds? That's how dumb "remove California and New York from the US" is.
    - hutattedonmyarm 8y ago
      And Sweden and the UK are part of Europe, so what's the difference?
bepotts 8y ago
So I keep hearing but not ever seeing. I know people on the internet love to talk Europe up as some leading tech innovator, but there's a reason why Americans worry about competition coming from either inside America or China. Europeans should worry more about building quality companies and broadening their tax base instead of getting salty about the money saved from foreigners.
- mehh 8y ago
  Its about fragmentation, Europe is fragmented by countries (governments), language, culture and law. US and China, not so much, a company has an immediate larger reach, and has less scaling issues than it would in Europe. Consider also the access to funding, how many small pots of money is there in europe all disjointed, compared to funds in China/US. Consider the focus companies can get in China with government support, its what makes china such a threat to the US. US has arguably accelerated areas via military R&D.

chongli 8y ago

There's lots of innovation and quality tech in Europe. We just don't see it because Europe has much greater diversity of language and culture than North America. This means that companies can target a niche in their country that has zero relevance to Americans. Not everything of value needs to be a billion dollar unicorn. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

bepotts 8y ago
English is the business language of the world. I highly doubt there's some tech epicenter near Brussels that would rival Silicon Valley (or even New York City, Seattle, or Austin) if only those companies spoke English. And sure being a Unicorn is everything, but it sure as hell isn't nothing. I have no doubt there there is a company in Europe doing something amazing, but Europe doesn't have a culture that continues to churn these companies out and I can't help but believe that their approach to regulation and taxation is apart of the problem. They get so giddy about regulation that it's kinda baffling. Regulation should be thought of an unnecessary evil - not some exciting project.
- dtf 8y ago
  It’s the second biggest economy in the world. They’re not that backward.
- mattmanser 8y ago
  I remember some tech crunch reporter claiming they'd never heard of a nine figure tech sale in Europe, the same day as a local business in my home city (Nottingham) was sold for over £100 million. It's not that we don't have a tech industry in Europe, it's just that US tech reporters are often insular, ignorant and lazy.
  - tomcam 8y ago
    > US tech reporters are often insular, ignorant and lazy. And then there are the bad ones…
- 8y ago

Daishiman 8y ago

So... that means that the restauranteurs, skilled tradesmen and everyone else should be bearing the burden, and not the extremely profitable tech companies? I don't know how you arrive at that logic.

microcolonel 8y ago
Unlike in the U.S, those lower mid earners are the people bearing the tax burden in much of W/NW Europe. The overall tax rate for a person earning less than median income is over 50% in Sweden (granted some of that is about mandatory charges for services like health insurance, which differ in being technically optional to Americans in the 5-45th percentile, and somewhat universal to those below).

apapli 8y ago

Only a couple of data points, and I recognise these are not a trend, but: 1) Estonia have been doing some interesting things recently. In fact, they contributed a lot to Skype in the early days. 2) a significant portion of developers etc for Upwork are European. 3) SAP 4) Trust pilot 5) Zendesk Cheers!

KineticLensman 8y ago

> innovation and quality tech companies from Europe Brit here (still in Europe for the moment). There is a lot if you include aerospace and pharma, less if you just consider software. The only non-British European software I've used and could remember off the top of my head was SAP. This made me think - what countries have sourced the software on my home PC? It's mainly American with a couple of outliers: e.g. New Zealand for Otoy's Octane renderer, a UK anti-virus package (ESET), and ... that's it. EDIT: Oops, ESET is Slovakian.

egman_ekki 8y ago
(ESET is from Slovakia, but still European)
- KineticLensman 8y ago
  Oops - I've corrected my comment. I was confusing ESET UK with the parent company.