5 ms·

I am completely unprepared for any degree of civilization collapse. Articles like this, however, make me wonder if there is a strategy that will leave me more

I am completely unprepared for any degree of civilization collapse. Articles like this, however, make me wonder if there is a strategy that will leave me more prepared than the average person, but not involve devoting my entire life & pool of resources to a bomb shelter in the outback. We insure against other unlikely but catastrophic events through various types of insurance - are there any demi-preppers out there?

VBprogrammer 8y ago
I think this is a pretty good treatment of the subject for someone who doesn't yet qualify for the tin-foil hat. http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/ http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/
Liquix 8y ago
You may be able to 'soft prep' by just laying out and running through a basic plan. Where you would go if shit hit the fan, who you would contact, how you would contact them with ISPs/cell towers out, where you would get clean water, how you would get food, etc. That way you're more prepared than 95% of people if something catastrophic were to go down, but you've only spent a weekend's worth of time and $20 on a pack of walkie-talkies. There seem to be diminishing returns where you're giving up current quality of life/free time for increasingly smaller 'preparedness' value.
- Taylor_OD 8y ago
  If you have enough water/food in your house for you and your family/roommates for 7 days you will be more prepared than most. That would cost you about $25-$50 in water jugs and another $50 in meal bars or something similar.
- XorNot 8y ago
  The answer to every question regarding "where would you go" is "nowhere, unless there's imminent localized danger". There's a reason most state-level disaster relief advice starts with "stay in your homes" unless there's actual flood waters rising or something - because masses of people suddenly moving about is a pretty good way to create a whole bunch of disruption and disaster.
czechdeveloper 8y ago
I still believe that this is 90% of "preppers". They study it for a week, make some arrangements an then just let it go. Revisit those arrangements once a year or so and you are golden. Generally you aim at basics. * About 3 weeks worth of food (2000 kcal/person/day) * Week of water (gallon/person/day), some basic water filtration (Sawyer squeeze) * Some preps may be more in line with local climate (backup heating for cold environments) * Evacuation bags are very common and are also known as BOBs (but most are garbage with lots of guns and no water). Still good to make some with copies of important documents, some water and spare clothes. Just get your old spare bag and unused clothes, no need to overthink it. * Think about having more first aid material and skills * Hygiene can be pain once your toilet does not flush anymore and you can't wash your hands, make some arrangements for that too (ie. bucket and plastic bags are way better than nothing) * I'd also consider tools, such as headlamp per person, other depends on location and needs. Axe can be useful even in city in case of earthquake. Fixed blade knife is probably most versatile tool and Morakniv companion for 15 USD is usually sufficient. But I would suggest some practice here too, you don't want to get cut during temporary service disruption. Good luck. As German governmental pamphlet states "Germany is ready, when every German is ready". Replace with your own country :).
- SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
  I don’t care about the overly sensitive downvotes because HN has been turning more into Reddit anyhow but - you left out firearm. In any “without rule of law” scenario you need a real means of protection. While this may be a shocker to some people if you try and fight with a knife, even if you have edged weapons training, there is a great chance you are going to bleed as well. I hope people who have had the state tell them they don’t need a firearm never have to figure out that should have been their own choice to make.
  - Cthulhu_ 8y ago
    Wasn't the US right to bear arms mainly aimed to overthrow a government in case it sucks? Well now's the chance. But for the US, I agree, I don't trust Americans to be civilized when the shit hits the fan - it's every man for himself there. Which is why the country is failing.
rojobuffalo 8y ago
A non-hardcore checklist would look pretty similar to a camping checklist. I have a storage bin with this stuff that I can throw into my truck and head to the country side. - [ ] water: a LifeStraw or some kind of filtration system and a couple storage containers (maybe 2 7-gallon containers) - [ ] food: dried fruits, beans, rice, whatever other dry food you want to pack. if you keep it in a container in your pantry you can just eat it whenever and try to keep it replenished - [ ] shelter: a tent - [ ] tools: fixed blade knife, solar flash-light/lantern, fire starter, shovel, axe, rope, tarp, compass, whatever you want to grab from REI or Home Depot. - [ ] first aid: they sell kits at REI or you can assemble your own Keep these things in a reliable place, maybe a tote in the garage; and keep your car in good shape (gassed up, tires are good, have a flat tire kit, jumper cables, maybe a spare battery, spare gas); and you'll be pretty reasonably prepared. Some bonus items: - [ ] a gun or bow for hunting - [ ] some seeds for gardening - [ ] some dry fertilizer for gardening
- astrodust 8y ago
  There's also the all important other item: Experience. If you've never had to survive in the wild before, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
  - justtopost 8y ago
    Bingo. I would be more confident and useful with a loincloth and a small knife than most of my weekend roleplayer 4x4 buddies with their jeeps loaded out with full survival kit. Watched a guy spend 2 hours trying to light wet kindling with some fancy flint thing, I used a bic. Most of the outdoors industry is all image now, decent equipment is inexpensive, so its 'lifestle marketing driven' now. Preppers included.
    - astrodust 8y ago
      It's the "tactical everything" lifestyle crowd versus someone who just knows what they're doing. All fancy tools and no common sense.
twinge 8y ago
Start with a realistic but not "end times" scenario: something like an extended power outage (2-6 weeks). Be ready to take care of yourself and people in your household. If you've got any leftover time/energy/skills/resources, organize with your neighbors. Are there any medical professionals in your neighborhood? How about people with useful skills for rebuilding (ham radio operators, electricians, civil engineers, etc.)? Look for CERT programs in your area, they're a good start.
- ahje 8y ago
  Starting out with preparing for the the more likely scenarios is definitely easier (and most likely more effective) than preparing for Illumunati death squads chasing survivors amongst the zombie hordes in a nuclear wasteland. Personally, I find it very likely that there will be some kind of short-term (less than 30 days) disruption here, within the next ten years. I live on the countryside and in the north so it's really just a matter of time before the climate changes screws up the weather to such an extent that we get snowed in. Likewise, it's not really that far fetched to expect an extended power outage or flooding. Medium to long-term disruptions are much less likely (although still possible), but in those cases it's much more important to make sure one's local community can co-operate to make sure actual food production and maintenance of critical infrastructure is handled. Once that part is handled, prepping for nuclear war, uprisings, alien invasions, zombie apocalypses and so on will be easier (as the basics are covered) and quite a fun hobby. It will also be useful as it will keep skills, that would otherwise be lost to time, alive and well.
briffle 8y ago
I have family that are 'preppers' but they aren't so much anti-government wacko's as they are government employees in the PNW that have seen the reports of what happens if 'the big one' comes (the Cascadia subduction zone)and how many bridges/airports will collapse. My little county did a study, and found they would become a dozen 'islands' because of how many bridges over rivers/large streams would collapse. I keep about two weeks worth of supplies (food, water, wool blankets, etc) around, because its going to take a long time for federal assistance to arrive.
t1540825608 8y ago
Stack your pantry deeper than average -- buy the same food you always buy, but keep 2-3x as much shelf-stable food on hand. Pasta, rice, flour, peanut butter, tuna, shortening, etc. all keep for long enough without any serious degradation in quality. Fill a water barrel[0] and put it in the back of a storage closet. Grab a Sawyer filter[1] in case that's not enough. Get a simple pump shotgun[2] and a 100 rounds; practice with 50 and save the other 50 in case you need to defend your home. Congratulations, you've bought insurance for the medium-term societal collapse for about $600 or so. [0] http://a.co/d/cT00rup http://a.co/d/cT00rup [1] http://a.co/d/eroGWNy http://a.co/d/eroGWNy [2] https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/Mossberg-Maverick-88-Security-Pump-Action-Shotgun https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/Mossberg-Maverick-88-Securit...
- elpeggio 8y ago
  Or just use 60 shells for practice and nob riggers (Rob nigeurs) with the remaining 40.
- jdmichal 8y ago
  Biggest addition I can make, as someone who has to prep for hurricane season every year: If you don't have a filter -- and even if you do, depending on what your water sources are -- be aware of how much water your planned foodstuffs will consume. Stuff like dried pasta and flour holds very well, but also consumes a pretty large amount of water to get to a usable state. Canned beans and vegetables and such come with their own water in the package, so they don't use your stores. EDIT: Don't forget that energy will also be constrained, not just water! Presoak your dried beans and pasta to drastically reduce the amount of energy necessary to cook them. https://www.seriouseats.com/2013/05/ask-the-food-lab-can-i-start-pasta-in-cold-water.html https://www.seriouseats.com/2013/05/ask-the-food-lab-can-i-s...
  - t1540825608 8y ago
    That's a great point, thanks!
georgeecollins 8y ago
There are little things that everyone should do. If you live in a place where an earthquake may disrupt tap water, keep some water in your house. If you live in a very hot place, keep some water in your car. If you live in a place where it gets very cold, keep some blankets in your car. Have some flashlights and a battery powered radio, a fire extinguisher and a first aid kit. You don't have to be planning for the end of the world for that to make sense.
sgt101 8y ago
Honestly : go out and engage with your community. If things go wrong you will be far more likely to get by if people know you, like you and are prepared to look out for you or throw you a bone. Your neighbours probably won't look after you unless you are an exceptional person, but they may well feed your family once or twice, help you board up or fix a roof (on the tacit understanding that you will do the same for them) or trust you more than the scary bunch in pickup trucks. Really - social ties would count more than anything. Collective action is much more potent than machine guns.
FrozenVoid 8y ago
> Articles like this, however, make me wonder if there is a strategy that will leave me more prepared than the average person Just buy some canned food(that you like) and few packs of bottled water. You're now more prepared than 90% of people. If you expect to evacuate from a local event, make some backpacking gear fitted with necessities and important stuff you need - tools,drugs/first-aid, documents,high-density foods. Like preparing an unexpected camping trip. Bomb shelters and bunkers are for truly paranoid expecting doomsday scenarios occurring right on top on them, but basic preparedness is not particularly costly, unless you hoard tons of supplies that you can't use.

VBprogrammer 8y ago

I think this is a pretty good treatment of the subject for someone who doesn't yet qualify for the tin-foil hat. http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/ http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/

Liquix 8y ago

You may be able to 'soft prep' by just laying out and running through a basic plan. Where you would go if shit hit the fan, who you would contact, how you would contact them with ISPs/cell towers out, where you would get clean water, how you would get food, etc. That way you're more prepared than 95% of people if something catastrophic were to go down, but you've only spent a weekend's worth of time and $20 on a pack of walkie-talkies. There seem to be diminishing returns where you're giving up current quality of life/free time for increasingly smaller 'preparedness' value.

Taylor_OD 8y ago
If you have enough water/food in your house for you and your family/roommates for 7 days you will be more prepared than most. That would cost you about $25-$50 in water jugs and another $50 in meal bars or something similar.
XorNot 8y ago
The answer to every question regarding "where would you go" is "nowhere, unless there's imminent localized danger". There's a reason most state-level disaster relief advice starts with "stay in your homes" unless there's actual flood waters rising or something - because masses of people suddenly moving about is a pretty good way to create a whole bunch of disruption and disaster.

czechdeveloper 8y ago

I still believe that this is 90% of "preppers". They study it for a week, make some arrangements an then just let it go. Revisit those arrangements once a year or so and you are golden. Generally you aim at basics. * About 3 weeks worth of food (2000 kcal/person/day) * Week of water (gallon/person/day), some basic water filtration (Sawyer squeeze) * Some preps may be more in line with local climate (backup heating for cold environments) * Evacuation bags are very common and are also known as BOBs (but most are garbage with lots of guns and no water). Still good to make some with copies of important documents, some water and spare clothes. Just get your old spare bag and unused clothes, no need to overthink it. * Think about having more first aid material and skills * Hygiene can be pain once your toilet does not flush anymore and you can't wash your hands, make some arrangements for that too (ie. bucket and plastic bags are way better than nothing) * I'd also consider tools, such as headlamp per person, other depends on location and needs. Axe can be useful even in city in case of earthquake. Fixed blade knife is probably most versatile tool and Morakniv companion for 15 USD is usually sufficient. But I would suggest some practice here too, you don't want to get cut during temporary service disruption. Good luck. As German governmental pamphlet states "Germany is ready, when every German is ready". Replace with your own country :).

SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
I don’t care about the overly sensitive downvotes because HN has been turning more into Reddit anyhow but - you left out firearm. In any “without rule of law” scenario you need a real means of protection. While this may be a shocker to some people if you try and fight with a knife, even if you have edged weapons training, there is a great chance you are going to bleed as well. I hope people who have had the state tell them they don’t need a firearm never have to figure out that should have been their own choice to make.
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  Wasn't the US right to bear arms mainly aimed to overthrow a government in case it sucks? Well now's the chance. But for the US, I agree, I don't trust Americans to be civilized when the shit hits the fan - it's every man for himself there. Which is why the country is failing.

rojobuffalo 8y ago

A non-hardcore checklist would look pretty similar to a camping checklist. I have a storage bin with this stuff that I can throw into my truck and head to the country side. - [ ] water: a LifeStraw or some kind of filtration system and a couple storage containers (maybe 2 7-gallon containers) - [ ] food: dried fruits, beans, rice, whatever other dry food you want to pack. if you keep it in a container in your pantry you can just eat it whenever and try to keep it replenished - [ ] shelter: a tent - [ ] tools: fixed blade knife, solar flash-light/lantern, fire starter, shovel, axe, rope, tarp, compass, whatever you want to grab from REI or Home Depot. - [ ] first aid: they sell kits at REI or you can assemble your own Keep these things in a reliable place, maybe a tote in the garage; and keep your car in good shape (gassed up, tires are good, have a flat tire kit, jumper cables, maybe a spare battery, spare gas); and you'll be pretty reasonably prepared. Some bonus items: - [ ] a gun or bow for hunting - [ ] some seeds for gardening - [ ] some dry fertilizer for gardening

astrodust 8y ago
There's also the all important other item: Experience. If you've never had to survive in the wild before, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
- justtopost 8y ago
  Bingo. I would be more confident and useful with a loincloth and a small knife than most of my weekend roleplayer 4x4 buddies with their jeeps loaded out with full survival kit. Watched a guy spend 2 hours trying to light wet kindling with some fancy flint thing, I used a bic. Most of the outdoors industry is all image now, decent equipment is inexpensive, so its 'lifestle marketing driven' now. Preppers included.
  - astrodust 8y ago
    It's the "tactical everything" lifestyle crowd versus someone who just knows what they're doing. All fancy tools and no common sense.

twinge 8y ago

Start with a realistic but not "end times" scenario: something like an extended power outage (2-6 weeks). Be ready to take care of yourself and people in your household. If you've got any leftover time/energy/skills/resources, organize with your neighbors. Are there any medical professionals in your neighborhood? How about people with useful skills for rebuilding (ham radio operators, electricians, civil engineers, etc.)? Look for CERT programs in your area, they're a good start.

ahje 8y ago
Starting out with preparing for the the more likely scenarios is definitely easier (and most likely more effective) than preparing for Illumunati death squads chasing survivors amongst the zombie hordes in a nuclear wasteland. Personally, I find it very likely that there will be some kind of short-term (less than 30 days) disruption here, within the next ten years. I live on the countryside and in the north so it's really just a matter of time before the climate changes screws up the weather to such an extent that we get snowed in. Likewise, it's not really that far fetched to expect an extended power outage or flooding. Medium to long-term disruptions are much less likely (although still possible), but in those cases it's much more important to make sure one's local community can co-operate to make sure actual food production and maintenance of critical infrastructure is handled. Once that part is handled, prepping for nuclear war, uprisings, alien invasions, zombie apocalypses and so on will be easier (as the basics are covered) and quite a fun hobby. It will also be useful as it will keep skills, that would otherwise be lost to time, alive and well.

briffle 8y ago

I have family that are 'preppers' but they aren't so much anti-government wacko's as they are government employees in the PNW that have seen the reports of what happens if 'the big one' comes (the Cascadia subduction zone)and how many bridges/airports will collapse. My little county did a study, and found they would become a dozen 'islands' because of how many bridges over rivers/large streams would collapse. I keep about two weeks worth of supplies (food, water, wool blankets, etc) around, because its going to take a long time for federal assistance to arrive.

t1540825608 8y ago

Stack your pantry deeper than average -- buy the same food you always buy, but keep 2-3x as much shelf-stable food on hand. Pasta, rice, flour, peanut butter, tuna, shortening, etc. all keep for long enough without any serious degradation in quality. Fill a water barrel[0] and put it in the back of a storage closet. Grab a Sawyer filter[1] in case that's not enough. Get a simple pump shotgun[2] and a 100 rounds; practice with 50 and save the other 50 in case you need to defend your home. Congratulations, you've bought insurance for the medium-term societal collapse for about $600 or so. [0] http://a.co/d/cT00rup http://a.co/d/cT00rup [1] http://a.co/d/eroGWNy http://a.co/d/eroGWNy [2] https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/Mossberg-Maverick-88-Security-Pump-Action-Shotgun https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/Mossberg-Maverick-88-Securit...

elpeggio 8y ago
Or just use 60 shells for practice and nob riggers (Rob nigeurs) with the remaining 40.
jdmichal 8y ago
Biggest addition I can make, as someone who has to prep for hurricane season every year: If you don't have a filter -- and even if you do, depending on what your water sources are -- be aware of how much water your planned foodstuffs will consume. Stuff like dried pasta and flour holds very well, but also consumes a pretty large amount of water to get to a usable state. Canned beans and vegetables and such come with their own water in the package, so they don't use your stores. EDIT: Don't forget that energy will also be constrained, not just water! Presoak your dried beans and pasta to drastically reduce the amount of energy necessary to cook them. https://www.seriouseats.com/2013/05/ask-the-food-lab-can-i-start-pasta-in-cold-water.html https://www.seriouseats.com/2013/05/ask-the-food-lab-can-i-s...
- t1540825608 8y ago
  That's a great point, thanks!

georgeecollins 8y ago

There are little things that everyone should do. If you live in a place where an earthquake may disrupt tap water, keep some water in your house. If you live in a very hot place, keep some water in your car. If you live in a place where it gets very cold, keep some blankets in your car. Have some flashlights and a battery powered radio, a fire extinguisher and a first aid kit. You don't have to be planning for the end of the world for that to make sense.

sgt101 8y ago

Honestly : go out and engage with your community. If things go wrong you will be far more likely to get by if people know you, like you and are prepared to look out for you or throw you a bone. Your neighbours probably won't look after you unless you are an exceptional person, but they may well feed your family once or twice, help you board up or fix a roof (on the tacit understanding that you will do the same for them) or trust you more than the scary bunch in pickup trucks. Really - social ties would count more than anything. Collective action is much more potent than machine guns.

FrozenVoid 8y ago

> Articles like this, however, make me wonder if there is a strategy that will leave me more prepared than the average person Just buy some canned food(that you like) and few packs of bottled water. You're now more prepared than 90% of people. If you expect to evacuate from a local event, make some backpacking gear fitted with necessities and important stuff you need - tools,drugs/first-aid, documents,high-density foods. Like preparing an unexpected camping trip. Bomb shelters and bunkers are for truly paranoid expecting doomsday scenarios occurring right on top on them, but basic preparedness is not particularly costly, unless you hoard tons of supplies that you can't use.