4 ms·

Double edged sword indeed. Without regulation the internet turned into shit and we have companies like Google and Facebook running the show.

point78 8y ago
With regulation what can be done with them tho
dantheman 8y ago
I'd say the internet is better and more useful than it's ever been. Some parts can be improved, but if we look at the track record of regulations so far it definitely looks more 'cure is worse than the disease'.
hutzlibu 8y ago
Human society is full of problems. Now most of human society uses the internet and not only the more educated, privileged ones. So obviously all the ordinary problems came to the internet. But I don't see how regulation would have prevented that, nor any improvement of any regulation so far.
- krageon 8y ago
  It seems a little disingenuous to say that you can't see how the GDPR has improved the privacy situation online, unless you didn't care about it before it was a thing and still don't care about it now.
  - hutzlibu 8y ago
    Well then tell me: did it stop anyone from tracking me? Did it stop facebook from manipulating the communication of their users? Did it stop google from harvesting data out of most websites? It mostly just created work and more annoying banners for people to click away, but no real improvement I see. But you see more? Maybe you mean the recent discussion in germany that landlords might have to remove the names on the door? Or new opportunities for bored and greedy lawers to sue websites who did not care or knew enough and don't have lawers on their own?
    - breakingcups 8y ago
      Yesterday I sent two GDPR requests to two companies that would not stop spamming our address with physical junk mail, addressed to us by name. In the request I requested all the data they had on us, their reason for keeping it and how they obtained it. Secondly, I demanded they remove us from all of their databases, including those of their vendors. This is now my good right under the GDPR and I am very happy that these tools exist to allow simple citizens like me to reign in untouchable companies' use of my personal data. It measurably improves my life. I don't see how the GDPR not preventing Google from harvesting website data is in any way relevant or a measure of GDPR usefulness.
    - krageon 8y ago
      I have succesfully used it to get my data removed from services where that would be impossible in the past (most notably, everyone who sends me emails that they feel I desire). There are more examples (like companies that finally have to think about what they're collecting and how), but on a personal level I think that's the most tangible and best one. If people actually implemented a cookie banner that was compliant, I would like that they are there. Because that means I could filter them away and I could be safe in the knowledge there were no tracking cookies. As it stands, you can see a lot of angry people making things that sound acceptable in the US (by continuing to browse, you agree to [...]) but is actually just not compliant. That's a sad state of affairs, but it's not the fault of the GDPR in my view.
  - tomatotomato37 8y ago
    Beyond the giants the only thing the GDPR practically did was double the amount of cookie popups you see on the web, and the suppoused harsh consequences don't work if so many organizations are doing it that the bureaucracy can't keep up
  - powerslacker 8y ago
    It definitely has not. Let's say company X allows company Y to access data that is personally identifiable. X is located in the EU, whereas company Y is not. Y promises to allow persons to delete their data upon request. However, there is no way that a person know their data has been shared from X to Y until they want to delete their data. At that point, who knows how far the data has spread or if it is even possible to track down. Y could have shared the data with any number of third parties, or may even be incapable of finding every reference to an individual and since it is not EU governed it will be difficult to ever bring Y to court.
ekianjo 8y ago
> Google and Facebook running the show. It only runs the show if you let them. You can still live outside of the Google/Facebook world happily.
- Xylakant 8y ago
  No, you can’t. Not unless you stop living in Europe or the US or any other place that has internet. I don’t have a Facebook account, but I’m certain Facebook knows all it needs to know from friends who shared pictures and tagged me, from people who uploaded their address book which included my phone number, from companies that uploaded my data as part of a targeted audience list. You cannot opt out of this part of the data collection. And all the policies that Facebook promotes, all the social dialogue it shapes, this affects me, too. I cannot possibly opt out of that either.
  - robin_reala 8y ago
    Facebook under GDPR isn’t allowed to create a shadow profile of EU citizens: all consent has to be opt-in. OK, so they could have some legitimate interest argument, but I find it hard to believe that’d fly in an EU court. They’re also not allowed to use the consent of your associates to process your personal information without your own opt-in consent. So it’s going to be interesting when the first court case with Facebook as a defendant against the GDPR happens.
    - Xylakant 8y ago
      Let’s see if that happens, but that’s tangential to the point. The GP was asserting that you can just ignore Facebook/Google and that act alone will remove all (ill) effect it might have on your life. I’m asserting this is false. If that effect is reduced by regulation, then this is the opposite of ignorance, it’s actively shaping what these actors can and cannot do.
  - briandear 8y ago
    As far as “social dialogue,” who cares? There is nothing on Facebook that is actually important unless you let it be. Not a single thing happening on Facebook makes one bit of difference to my daily life.
pitaj 8y ago
What a naive, ignorant, and condescending viewpoint. "the internet turned into shit", give me a break. If anything on the internet is shit, it's your comment.

point78 8y ago

With regulation what can be done with them tho

dantheman 8y ago

I'd say the internet is better and more useful than it's ever been. Some parts can be improved, but if we look at the track record of regulations so far it definitely looks more 'cure is worse than the disease'.

hutzlibu 8y ago

Human society is full of problems. Now most of human society uses the internet and not only the more educated, privileged ones. So obviously all the ordinary problems came to the internet. But I don't see how regulation would have prevented that, nor any improvement of any regulation so far.

krageon 8y ago
It seems a little disingenuous to say that you can't see how the GDPR has improved the privacy situation online, unless you didn't care about it before it was a thing and still don't care about it now.
- hutzlibu 8y ago
  Well then tell me: did it stop anyone from tracking me? Did it stop facebook from manipulating the communication of their users? Did it stop google from harvesting data out of most websites? It mostly just created work and more annoying banners for people to click away, but no real improvement I see. But you see more? Maybe you mean the recent discussion in germany that landlords might have to remove the names on the door? Or new opportunities for bored and greedy lawers to sue websites who did not care or knew enough and don't have lawers on their own?
  - breakingcups 8y ago
    Yesterday I sent two GDPR requests to two companies that would not stop spamming our address with physical junk mail, addressed to us by name. In the request I requested all the data they had on us, their reason for keeping it and how they obtained it. Secondly, I demanded they remove us from all of their databases, including those of their vendors. This is now my good right under the GDPR and I am very happy that these tools exist to allow simple citizens like me to reign in untouchable companies' use of my personal data. It measurably improves my life. I don't see how the GDPR not preventing Google from harvesting website data is in any way relevant or a measure of GDPR usefulness.
  - krageon 8y ago
    I have succesfully used it to get my data removed from services where that would be impossible in the past (most notably, everyone who sends me emails that they feel I desire). There are more examples (like companies that finally have to think about what they're collecting and how), but on a personal level I think that's the most tangible and best one. If people actually implemented a cookie banner that was compliant, I would like that they are there. Because that means I could filter them away and I could be safe in the knowledge there were no tracking cookies. As it stands, you can see a lot of angry people making things that sound acceptable in the US (by continuing to browse, you agree to [...]) but is actually just not compliant. That's a sad state of affairs, but it's not the fault of the GDPR in my view.
- tomatotomato37 8y ago
  Beyond the giants the only thing the GDPR practically did was double the amount of cookie popups you see on the web, and the suppoused harsh consequences don't work if so many organizations are doing it that the bureaucracy can't keep up
- powerslacker 8y ago
  It definitely has not. Let's say company X allows company Y to access data that is personally identifiable. X is located in the EU, whereas company Y is not. Y promises to allow persons to delete their data upon request. However, there is no way that a person know their data has been shared from X to Y until they want to delete their data. At that point, who knows how far the data has spread or if it is even possible to track down. Y could have shared the data with any number of third parties, or may even be incapable of finding every reference to an individual and since it is not EU governed it will be difficult to ever bring Y to court.

ekianjo 8y ago

> Google and Facebook running the show. It only runs the show if you let them. You can still live outside of the Google/Facebook world happily.

Xylakant 8y ago
No, you can’t. Not unless you stop living in Europe or the US or any other place that has internet. I don’t have a Facebook account, but I’m certain Facebook knows all it needs to know from friends who shared pictures and tagged me, from people who uploaded their address book which included my phone number, from companies that uploaded my data as part of a targeted audience list. You cannot opt out of this part of the data collection. And all the policies that Facebook promotes, all the social dialogue it shapes, this affects me, too. I cannot possibly opt out of that either.
- robin_reala 8y ago
  Facebook under GDPR isn’t allowed to create a shadow profile of EU citizens: all consent has to be opt-in. OK, so they could have some legitimate interest argument, but I find it hard to believe that’d fly in an EU court. They’re also not allowed to use the consent of your associates to process your personal information without your own opt-in consent. So it’s going to be interesting when the first court case with Facebook as a defendant against the GDPR happens.
  - Xylakant 8y ago
    Let’s see if that happens, but that’s tangential to the point. The GP was asserting that you can just ignore Facebook/Google and that act alone will remove all (ill) effect it might have on your life. I’m asserting this is false. If that effect is reduced by regulation, then this is the opposite of ignorance, it’s actively shaping what these actors can and cannot do.
- briandear 8y ago
  As far as “social dialogue,” who cares? There is nothing on Facebook that is actually important unless you let it be. Not a single thing happening on Facebook makes one bit of difference to my daily life.

pitaj 8y ago

What a naive, ignorant, and condescending viewpoint. "the internet turned into shit", give me a break. If anything on the internet is shit, it's your comment.