8 ms·

Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunkering down

47 points by gpresot 8y ago

sambull 8y ago
The preppers hunker down the un preppered become migrant caravans / climate based migration is already happening
gcb0 8y ago
didn't expect theguardian to report on oddballs as if they're the norm for something bigger. everyone have hobbies
ataturk 8y ago
Doomsday clock == bullshit. I can't believe people fall for such horseshit. Climate-based migration? It's been going on for the entire history of the human race. Prepping and "bugging out" is a waste of time if 10 million other people have to do the same thing, I hope you like the taste of "long pork" because that's all there is going to be to eat. No matter where you go, you will end up having to fight off hordes of other people to protect your one can of baked beans. And correct me if I'm wrong, but Australians turned in most of their guns (idiots) so I guess it will be pretty medieval there if things really do go bad. As a civilization, the West has completely lost its way in terms of self-sufficiency. If the just-in-time delivery process in the US suffers a major blow, millions will starve and become feral very rapidly. That's what all the "zombie" bs was about--a nice way to approach a not so nice issue of city people who live hand to mouth coming for those who have whatever food exists. I live just outside a major metro area. I have no illusions about how bad things will get if modern delivery systems falter or if the US Govt. stops paying people not to work. It is all very precarious, but it if and when it fails, the prepper types just live just a tiny bit longer than everyone else, or maybe less since they will be pillaged.
radoslawc 8y ago
> Earlier this year the hands of the Doomsday Clock moved to two minutes to midnight, as atomic scientists announced that the world is closer to annihilation than it has been in decades. > As global anxiety takes hold, an increasing number of people are preparing for the worst-case scenario Am I the only one not in the loop whith this? And if we're really facing 'global nuclear annihilation' I don't think grownup men running around the bush with plastic compass and god damn bow, roleplaying Metro 2033 are solution to this.
- Liquix 8y ago
  It seems they are not trying to be the "solution" to shit hitting the fan, they are just trying to be personally prepared for if/when it does.
- lolc 8y ago
  Prepping is an individual solution to the threat of societal collapse. In the grander scheme of things, it can be seen as an anti-solution. It gives some people the idea that they've got an escape hatch. If you think you can run away, you'll be less inclined to fight for a solution that avoids collapse. Luckily, the article differentiates here and doesn't feature hardcore fatalists only. And in my view, just thinking about what living outside modern society encompasses will actually help people understand what they got. And why they should fight for it. Personally, I need insulin. So I'm committed anyway. I can't just go hide in a bush for years on-end.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    >In the grander scheme of things, it can be seen as an anti-solution. It gives some people the idea that they've got an escape hatch. If you think you can run away, you'll be less inclined to fight for a solution that avoids collapse. It comes off like you're saying "well if shit really goes south I'm screwed so these people should be too". A few thousand preppers who are too busy prepping to "fight for a solution" isn't gonna make the difference between shit going south or not. Not to be an ass but the kind of people I picture saying something like that are stuffy politicians who likes to use phrases like "antisocial behavior", "community norms" and "if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem" and who is completely out of touch with what shapes the decisions of everyday people. If someone wants to prep for something that's highly unlikely to happen then I see no problem with that. If anything their prepping stands to be useful in a hurricane Katrina type situation. What's the problem with that?
    - s_kilk 8y ago
      > It comes off like you're saying "well if shit really goes south I'm screwed so these people should be too" I think it's more a recognition that we are social creatures, and that the minimum-viable unit of social reproduction is the village cluster, not the lone-wolf individual. The notion that these folk are going to "survive" in any meaningful sense is a fantasy.
SagelyGuru 8y ago
Well, there is some sense to this. Supposing TSHTF event happens and it is a nuclear war, there is a good chance that Western Australia will be passed over in everyone's haste to kill off more threatening enemy targets first.
bentona 8y ago
I am completely unprepared for any degree of civilization collapse. Articles like this, however, make me wonder if there is a strategy that will leave me more prepared than the average person, but not involve devoting my entire life & pool of resources to a bomb shelter in the outback. We insure against other unlikely but catastrophic events through various types of insurance - are there any demi-preppers out there?
- VBprogrammer 8y ago
  I think this is a pretty good treatment of the subject for someone who doesn't yet qualify for the tin-foil hat. http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/ http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/
- Liquix 8y ago
  You may be able to 'soft prep' by just laying out and running through a basic plan. Where you would go if shit hit the fan, who you would contact, how you would contact them with ISPs/cell towers out, where you would get clean water, how you would get food, etc. That way you're more prepared than 95% of people if something catastrophic were to go down, but you've only spent a weekend's worth of time and $20 on a pack of walkie-talkies. There seem to be diminishing returns where you're giving up current quality of life/free time for increasingly smaller 'preparedness' value.
  - Taylor_OD 8y ago
    If you have enough water/food in your house for you and your family/roommates for 7 days you will be more prepared than most. That would cost you about $25-$50 in water jugs and another $50 in meal bars or something similar.
  - XorNot 8y ago
    The answer to every question regarding "where would you go" is "nowhere, unless there's imminent localized danger". There's a reason most state-level disaster relief advice starts with "stay in your homes" unless there's actual flood waters rising or something - because masses of people suddenly moving about is a pretty good way to create a whole bunch of disruption and disaster.
dudul 8y ago
A blog post I ran into a while ago and found very sensible: http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/ http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/ You don't have to be a nutcase to prepare for disasters.
rdiddly 8y ago
I hear people say they're ready to survive off the land in a remote location, and I wonder why they don't just move there now & start doing it.
- wild_preference 8y ago
  Because they prefer where they live now.
- 3chelon 8y ago
  What's more, how are they going to make it out of the city on clogged highways? Especially when the ICBMs are already airborne? I live in the country already. We have chickens, and a well. We won't get murdered in the urban panic. We will probably last a few months... and then die of disease or starvation like the rest.
  - briffle 8y ago
    I used to live in the country, and had to re-assess my assumptions when we had a several day power outage due to a blizzard. We had propane at the old farmhouse, but with no power to run the furnace/blower, I could only run the range (and a small portable propane heater with some spare tanks). There was no power for the well either. After that, every time the power would go out, Wife or I would immediately fill up the bathtub with all the water that was in the pressure tanks. We looked into solar, but the power spikes needed to start a well pump (or furnace fan) can be pretty high, and need quite a bit of amperage to get going.
    - 3chelon 8y ago
      Yes, electricity is a massive problem. You need solar or a wind turbine, and a lot of car batteries too.
esotericn 8y ago
Everyone has a hobby. This seems like a pretty bloody useful one.
edoo 8y ago
A government report estimated 90% die off after 1 year if the lights go out due to solar flare or EMP. You can get a basic 1 year supply of food that will last 20 years in cool storage for under $1000 shipped. That is 3 months for a family of 4, cheap insurance and peace of mind.
- adrianN 8y ago
  You also need a cool place to store that food, which probably costs a lot more over twenty years than the food.
  - edoo 8y ago
    Cool means average temperature less than 65F. Underground easily meets that in hot areas.
    - adrianN 8y ago
      Most of the 90% that will die probably live in apartments in cities and don't have convenient underground storage.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    And enough people skills and/or guns, ammo and training to protect that food. After all, all that 90% of people aren't going to just lie down and die.
    - edoo 8y ago
      To each his own. Just because someone doesn't believe in guns or defending their own property doesn't mean it isn't prudent to have a small emergency stash of food.
      - t1540825608 8y ago
        But also, just because some people don't believe in guns, doesn't mean we should avoid mentioning it. Defense is still an important part of preparation, and guns are the best tools to accomplish that. If someone wants to reject that form of defense on philosophical grounds, they're welcome to, but it's still worth mentioning them as resources for people who may not have such fixed philosophies.
georgeecollins 8y ago
The irony of this is that what I have seen from modern societies in collapse* is that people band together more with their neighbors or tribe and there is less place for individuals. So maybe it is not going to be you running around in the woods with a bow, but instead a big group from a nearby camp (or a wandering tribe) dragging you out of the woods to pump water or prepare food. Collapse may be disappointing for prepers. * I am thinking Katrina, Iraq, Syria-- modern places where things have really fallen apart.
- pgruenbacher 8y ago
  yea if you want to prepare for a doomsday, #1 priority is meet and know your neighbor.
scotty79 8y ago
> “We live in an era that, within 15 minutes’ notice, nuclear weapons could be crossing the continents bringing about great devastation. Yet we deny this, go about our business. Also every person you pass on the street can end your life in minutes or less with few dollars worth of steel. Yet we go about our business. That possibility is just the cost of living near people. With nukes "near" means "on the same planet".
- elpeggio 8y ago
  Great point let's shake peg-legs.
- gumby 8y ago
  And the irony is that though in theory your local n is smaller than that of the entire globe, in reality the number of people who could launch an ICBM is miniscule while, as you point you, you typically are in proximity to quite a few on a given day (even in Australia).
ThinkingGuy 8y ago
"He acknowledges there might be stigma attached to the word 'prepper' but stresses it is just about being prepared – whether that is for the armageddon or just for a flat tyre is up to the individual." In the US, at least, I recall the term 'prepper' coming along relatively recently, as a softer, more friendly-sounding replacement for the previous term, "survivalist," which had acquired a connotation of "irrational, paranoid gun hoarder type." Is this a case of the "euphamism treadmill" in action?
- manfredo 8y ago
  I guess one should reserve whatever connotation that comes with the word "prepper" until after hearing about the event for which this person is preparing. Preparing for many natural disasters (earthquake, tornado, hurricane) is very sensible for people who live in said areas. Some man made situations (infrastructure failures, fires, etc.) as well. I don't know if it's a case of euphemism treadmill. The older term, "survivalist" doesn't seem to have the same negative connotation (but does have the different connotation of focusing more on survival in nature rather than survivng disasters in society).
gumby 8y ago
The nice thing about urban preppers is that's the place to go in a doomsday. They have a ready supply of water, canned goods, and ammo. I am sure some preppers will in fact be ready, guns loaded, and should not be approached. These are also likely to be the ones avoiding urban areas anyway. But the ones I know (fortunately none of whom read HN AFAIK) well enough to know their prep...are unlikely to actually have their guns readily available.

47 points by gpresot 8y ago

sambull 8y ago

The preppers hunker down the un preppered become migrant caravans / climate based migration is already happening

gcb0 8y ago

didn't expect theguardian to report on oddballs as if they're the norm for something bigger. everyone have hobbies

ataturk 8y ago

Doomsday clock == bullshit. I can't believe people fall for such horseshit. Climate-based migration? It's been going on for the entire history of the human race. Prepping and "bugging out" is a waste of time if 10 million other people have to do the same thing, I hope you like the taste of "long pork" because that's all there is going to be to eat. No matter where you go, you will end up having to fight off hordes of other people to protect your one can of baked beans. And correct me if I'm wrong, but Australians turned in most of their guns (idiots) so I guess it will be pretty medieval there if things really do go bad. As a civilization, the West has completely lost its way in terms of self-sufficiency. If the just-in-time delivery process in the US suffers a major blow, millions will starve and become feral very rapidly. That's what all the "zombie" bs was about--a nice way to approach a not so nice issue of city people who live hand to mouth coming for those who have whatever food exists. I live just outside a major metro area. I have no illusions about how bad things will get if modern delivery systems falter or if the US Govt. stops paying people not to work. It is all very precarious, but it if and when it fails, the prepper types just live just a tiny bit longer than everyone else, or maybe less since they will be pillaged.

radoslawc 8y ago

> Earlier this year the hands of the Doomsday Clock moved to two minutes to midnight, as atomic scientists announced that the world is closer to annihilation than it has been in decades. > As global anxiety takes hold, an increasing number of people are preparing for the worst-case scenario Am I the only one not in the loop whith this? And if we're really facing 'global nuclear annihilation' I don't think grownup men running around the bush with plastic compass and god damn bow, roleplaying Metro 2033 are solution to this.

Liquix 8y ago
It seems they are not trying to be the "solution" to shit hitting the fan, they are just trying to be personally prepared for if/when it does.
lolc 8y ago
Prepping is an individual solution to the threat of societal collapse. In the grander scheme of things, it can be seen as an anti-solution. It gives some people the idea that they've got an escape hatch. If you think you can run away, you'll be less inclined to fight for a solution that avoids collapse. Luckily, the article differentiates here and doesn't feature hardcore fatalists only. And in my view, just thinking about what living outside modern society encompasses will actually help people understand what they got. And why they should fight for it. Personally, I need insulin. So I'm committed anyway. I can't just go hide in a bush for years on-end.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >In the grander scheme of things, it can be seen as an anti-solution. It gives some people the idea that they've got an escape hatch. If you think you can run away, you'll be less inclined to fight for a solution that avoids collapse. It comes off like you're saying "well if shit really goes south I'm screwed so these people should be too". A few thousand preppers who are too busy prepping to "fight for a solution" isn't gonna make the difference between shit going south or not. Not to be an ass but the kind of people I picture saying something like that are stuffy politicians who likes to use phrases like "antisocial behavior", "community norms" and "if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem" and who is completely out of touch with what shapes the decisions of everyday people. If someone wants to prep for something that's highly unlikely to happen then I see no problem with that. If anything their prepping stands to be useful in a hurricane Katrina type situation. What's the problem with that?
  - s_kilk 8y ago
    > It comes off like you're saying "well if shit really goes south I'm screwed so these people should be too" I think it's more a recognition that we are social creatures, and that the minimum-viable unit of social reproduction is the village cluster, not the lone-wolf individual. The notion that these folk are going to "survive" in any meaningful sense is a fantasy.

SagelyGuru 8y ago

Well, there is some sense to this. Supposing TSHTF event happens and it is a nuclear war, there is a good chance that Western Australia will be passed over in everyone's haste to kill off more threatening enemy targets first.

bentona 8y ago

I am completely unprepared for any degree of civilization collapse. Articles like this, however, make me wonder if there is a strategy that will leave me more prepared than the average person, but not involve devoting my entire life & pool of resources to a bomb shelter in the outback. We insure against other unlikely but catastrophic events through various types of insurance - are there any demi-preppers out there?

VBprogrammer 8y ago
I think this is a pretty good treatment of the subject for someone who doesn't yet qualify for the tin-foil hat. http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/ http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/
Liquix 8y ago
You may be able to 'soft prep' by just laying out and running through a basic plan. Where you would go if shit hit the fan, who you would contact, how you would contact them with ISPs/cell towers out, where you would get clean water, how you would get food, etc. That way you're more prepared than 95% of people if something catastrophic were to go down, but you've only spent a weekend's worth of time and $20 on a pack of walkie-talkies. There seem to be diminishing returns where you're giving up current quality of life/free time for increasingly smaller 'preparedness' value.
- Taylor_OD 8y ago
  If you have enough water/food in your house for you and your family/roommates for 7 days you will be more prepared than most. That would cost you about $25-$50 in water jugs and another $50 in meal bars or something similar.
- XorNot 8y ago
  The answer to every question regarding "where would you go" is "nowhere, unless there's imminent localized danger". There's a reason most state-level disaster relief advice starts with "stay in your homes" unless there's actual flood waters rising or something - because masses of people suddenly moving about is a pretty good way to create a whole bunch of disruption and disaster.

dudul 8y ago

A blog post I ran into a while ago and found very sensible: http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/ http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/ You don't have to be a nutcase to prepare for disasters.

rdiddly 8y ago

I hear people say they're ready to survive off the land in a remote location, and I wonder why they don't just move there now & start doing it.

wild_preference 8y ago
Because they prefer where they live now.
3chelon 8y ago
What's more, how are they going to make it out of the city on clogged highways? Especially when the ICBMs are already airborne? I live in the country already. We have chickens, and a well. We won't get murdered in the urban panic. We will probably last a few months... and then die of disease or starvation like the rest.
- briffle 8y ago
  I used to live in the country, and had to re-assess my assumptions when we had a several day power outage due to a blizzard. We had propane at the old farmhouse, but with no power to run the furnace/blower, I could only run the range (and a small portable propane heater with some spare tanks). There was no power for the well either. After that, every time the power would go out, Wife or I would immediately fill up the bathtub with all the water that was in the pressure tanks. We looked into solar, but the power spikes needed to start a well pump (or furnace fan) can be pretty high, and need quite a bit of amperage to get going.
  - 3chelon 8y ago
    Yes, electricity is a massive problem. You need solar or a wind turbine, and a lot of car batteries too.

esotericn 8y ago

Everyone has a hobby. This seems like a pretty bloody useful one.

edoo 8y ago

A government report estimated 90% die off after 1 year if the lights go out due to solar flare or EMP. You can get a basic 1 year supply of food that will last 20 years in cool storage for under $1000 shipped. That is 3 months for a family of 4, cheap insurance and peace of mind.

adrianN 8y ago
You also need a cool place to store that food, which probably costs a lot more over twenty years than the food.
- edoo 8y ago
  Cool means average temperature less than 65F. Underground easily meets that in hot areas.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    Most of the 90% that will die probably live in apartments in cities and don't have convenient underground storage.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  And enough people skills and/or guns, ammo and training to protect that food. After all, all that 90% of people aren't going to just lie down and die.
  - edoo 8y ago
    To each his own. Just because someone doesn't believe in guns or defending their own property doesn't mean it isn't prudent to have a small emergency stash of food.
    - t1540825608 8y ago
      But also, just because some people don't believe in guns, doesn't mean we should avoid mentioning it. Defense is still an important part of preparation, and guns are the best tools to accomplish that. If someone wants to reject that form of defense on philosophical grounds, they're welcome to, but it's still worth mentioning them as resources for people who may not have such fixed philosophies.

georgeecollins 8y ago

The irony of this is that what I have seen from modern societies in collapse* is that people band together more with their neighbors or tribe and there is less place for individuals. So maybe it is not going to be you running around in the woods with a bow, but instead a big group from a nearby camp (or a wandering tribe) dragging you out of the woods to pump water or prepare food. Collapse may be disappointing for prepers. * I am thinking Katrina, Iraq, Syria-- modern places where things have really fallen apart.

pgruenbacher 8y ago
yea if you want to prepare for a doomsday, #1 priority is meet and know your neighbor.

scotty79 8y ago

> “We live in an era that, within 15 minutes’ notice, nuclear weapons could be crossing the continents bringing about great devastation. Yet we deny this, go about our business. Also every person you pass on the street can end your life in minutes or less with few dollars worth of steel. Yet we go about our business. That possibility is just the cost of living near people. With nukes "near" means "on the same planet".

elpeggio 8y ago
Great point let's shake peg-legs.
gumby 8y ago
And the irony is that though in theory your local n is smaller than that of the entire globe, in reality the number of people who could launch an ICBM is miniscule while, as you point you, you typically are in proximity to quite a few on a given day (even in Australia).

ThinkingGuy 8y ago

"He acknowledges there might be stigma attached to the word 'prepper' but stresses it is just about being prepared – whether that is for the armageddon or just for a flat tyre is up to the individual." In the US, at least, I recall the term 'prepper' coming along relatively recently, as a softer, more friendly-sounding replacement for the previous term, "survivalist," which had acquired a connotation of "irrational, paranoid gun hoarder type." Is this a case of the "euphamism treadmill" in action?

manfredo 8y ago
I guess one should reserve whatever connotation that comes with the word "prepper" until after hearing about the event for which this person is preparing. Preparing for many natural disasters (earthquake, tornado, hurricane) is very sensible for people who live in said areas. Some man made situations (infrastructure failures, fires, etc.) as well. I don't know if it's a case of euphemism treadmill. The older term, "survivalist" doesn't seem to have the same negative connotation (but does have the different connotation of focusing more on survival in nature rather than survivng disasters in society).

gumby 8y ago

The nice thing about urban preppers is that's the place to go in a doomsday. They have a ready supply of water, canned goods, and ammo. I am sure some preppers will in fact be ready, guns loaded, and should not be approached. These are also likely to be the ones avoiding urban areas anyway. But the ones I know (fortunately none of whom read HN AFAIK) well enough to know their prep...are unlikely to actually have their guns readily available.