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It looks like you're very familiar with Gab, and I can't look into it myself while the site is inaccessible. You've argued: what you can't do is try to argu

It looks like you're very familiar with Gab, and I can't look into it myself while the site is inaccessible. You've argued: what you can't do is try to argue that Gab is just Twitter Can you explain what systemic attributes of Gab-the-speech-platform differ from Twitter, if any? I wonder how it got to be the way you've described it to be. You said, it actively courts white supremacists Could you provide an example of what you mean?

Dylan16807 8y ago
> Could you provide an example Did you look at the linked tweets?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- corey_moncure 8y ago
  Sure did! I saw some criticism of Jews and Israel in there. I'm asking if GP can provide an example of actively courting white supremacists which I haven't seen (haven't, and for the moment can't, look into it myself). Since GP screenshots Gab as a hobby, this should be easy.
  - pvg 8y ago
    When they suggest someone might not support free speech because they are Jewish, that's not 'some criticism of Jews and Israel'. Describing it like that is either incredibly naive or a fair bit Nazi.
    - corey_moncure 8y ago
      See my above comment, anti-Semitism and white supremacy aren't the same thing (black nationalists can't be anti-Semites?). I'm commenting under my real name, in good faith.
      - pvg 8y ago
        Your good faith argument is that having built a site for white supremacists and Nazis and regularly using the overt, racist, anti-semitic language of white supremacists and Nazis (which you, for some inexplicable reason, choose to describe as 'criticism of Jews') the owners of Gab might, in fact, be secret adherents to the ideology of the Nation of Islam. There's a bit in Winnie-the-Pooh in which Pooh goes home to get a jar of honey to use as bait in a Heffalump trap. "It had HUNNY written on it, but, just to make sure, he took off the paper cover and looked at it, and it looked just like honey. “But you never can tell,” said Pooh. “I remember my uncle saying once that he had seen cheese just this colour.” So he put his tongue in, and took a large lick. “Yes,” he said, “it is. no doubt about that. And honey, I should say, right down to the bottom of the jar. Unless, of course,” he said, “somebody put cheese in at the bottom just for a joke. Perhaps I had better go a little further... just in case... in case Heffalumps don't like cheese... same as me... Ah!” And he gave a deep sigh. “I was right. It is honey, right the way down.”" Five year olds can easily tell this is supposed to be amusing and not a description of Pooh's good-faith effort to establish the precise contents of the jar.
        corey_moncure 8y ago
        Big straw-man there. I've chosen to avoid putting labels on people based on twitter-length blurbs. It's disrespectful to the person generally, and very tenuous since there's definitely context I lack. I'm not familiar with Gab, so I'm just going on the information I see presented. I stated what I felt I could prove up if called out: the comments criticized Jews and Israel. To that extent, I concede they're anti-Semitic. (There again, Semite is a category that includes many populations of which Jews are not even the largest). I haven't seen the full on overt, racist, 'final solution' type of Nazism you're saying there is, which maybe there is, but I haven't seen it so I shy away from claiming it. These conversations can be dangerous because of how very easy it is to over-state yourself, particularly when you go throwing labels around. I haven't presented any argument here. I'm asking the man to fill in what I see as a gap in his argument, that is, strengthening his argument. I'm being called to the floor over it.
        8y ago
  - pcwalton 8y ago
    The meaning of http://archive.is/q8Guu http://archive.is/q8Guu is utterly obvious. It is an overt white supremacist statement. Anyone who denies that it is anti-Semitic is obviously arguing in bad faith.
    - corey_moncure 8y ago
      OK, but anti-Semitism and white supremacy aren't the same thing (black nationalists can't be anti-Semites?), and even if they WERE the same thing, how is this an example of "actively courting white supremacists" or anti-Semites for that matter? Let's tie it back to the original argument. It is basically argued that unlike Twitter, it's justified to deplatform Gab because their 465,000 users are "virtually everyone" white nationalists, white supremacists, and/or anti-semites (the terms are used interchangeably), and that this state of affairs is due to Gab "actively courting white supremacists". Does Gab actively court white supremacists to join their platform? Maybe! The poster claims that he screenshots Gab as a hobby, so it should be easy to provide an example of this. Words have meanings. "White supremacy", "White nationalism", and "anti-semitism" are not synonyms. There are very specific claims in the original argument. "Actively courts white supremacists" is a higher standard than "holds or expresses white supremacist opinions", and this claim is central to the argument justifying deplatforming Gab. I'm commenting under my real name, in good faith.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - tptacek 8y ago
        I don't think any of us want to litigate the fine details of where anti-Semitism becomes white supremacy, but, if you take the time to go read Ken White's Twitter feed, you can find Gab mocking White for adopting non-white children.

Dylan16807 8y ago

> Could you provide an example Did you look at the linked tweets?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
corey_moncure 8y ago
Sure did! I saw some criticism of Jews and Israel in there. I'm asking if GP can provide an example of actively courting white supremacists which I haven't seen (haven't, and for the moment can't, look into it myself). Since GP screenshots Gab as a hobby, this should be easy.
- pvg 8y ago
  When they suggest someone might not support free speech because they are Jewish, that's not 'some criticism of Jews and Israel'. Describing it like that is either incredibly naive or a fair bit Nazi.
  - corey_moncure 8y ago
    See my above comment, anti-Semitism and white supremacy aren't the same thing (black nationalists can't be anti-Semites?). I'm commenting under my real name, in good faith.
    - pvg 8y ago
      Your good faith argument is that having built a site for white supremacists and Nazis and regularly using the overt, racist, anti-semitic language of white supremacists and Nazis (which you, for some inexplicable reason, choose to describe as 'criticism of Jews') the owners of Gab might, in fact, be secret adherents to the ideology of the Nation of Islam. There's a bit in Winnie-the-Pooh in which Pooh goes home to get a jar of honey to use as bait in a Heffalump trap. "It had HUNNY written on it, but, just to make sure, he took off the paper cover and looked at it, and it looked just like honey. “But you never can tell,” said Pooh. “I remember my uncle saying once that he had seen cheese just this colour.” So he put his tongue in, and took a large lick. “Yes,” he said, “it is. no doubt about that. And honey, I should say, right down to the bottom of the jar. Unless, of course,” he said, “somebody put cheese in at the bottom just for a joke. Perhaps I had better go a little further... just in case... in case Heffalumps don't like cheese... same as me... Ah!” And he gave a deep sigh. “I was right. It is honey, right the way down.”" Five year olds can easily tell this is supposed to be amusing and not a description of Pooh's good-faith effort to establish the precise contents of the jar.
      - corey_moncure 8y ago
        Big straw-man there. I've chosen to avoid putting labels on people based on twitter-length blurbs. It's disrespectful to the person generally, and very tenuous since there's definitely context I lack. I'm not familiar with Gab, so I'm just going on the information I see presented. I stated what I felt I could prove up if called out: the comments criticized Jews and Israel. To that extent, I concede they're anti-Semitic. (There again, Semite is a category that includes many populations of which Jews are not even the largest). I haven't seen the full on overt, racist, 'final solution' type of Nazism you're saying there is, which maybe there is, but I haven't seen it so I shy away from claiming it. These conversations can be dangerous because of how very easy it is to over-state yourself, particularly when you go throwing labels around. I haven't presented any argument here. I'm asking the man to fill in what I see as a gap in his argument, that is, strengthening his argument. I'm being called to the floor over it.
        8y ago
- pcwalton 8y ago
  The meaning of http://archive.is/q8Guu http://archive.is/q8Guu is utterly obvious. It is an overt white supremacist statement. Anyone who denies that it is anti-Semitic is obviously arguing in bad faith.
  - corey_moncure 8y ago
    OK, but anti-Semitism and white supremacy aren't the same thing (black nationalists can't be anti-Semites?), and even if they WERE the same thing, how is this an example of "actively courting white supremacists" or anti-Semites for that matter? Let's tie it back to the original argument. It is basically argued that unlike Twitter, it's justified to deplatform Gab because their 465,000 users are "virtually everyone" white nationalists, white supremacists, and/or anti-semites (the terms are used interchangeably), and that this state of affairs is due to Gab "actively courting white supremacists". Does Gab actively court white supremacists to join their platform? Maybe! The poster claims that he screenshots Gab as a hobby, so it should be easy to provide an example of this. Words have meanings. "White supremacy", "White nationalism", and "anti-semitism" are not synonyms. There are very specific claims in the original argument. "Actively courts white supremacists" is a higher standard than "holds or expresses white supremacist opinions", and this claim is central to the argument justifying deplatforming Gab. I'm commenting under my real name, in good faith.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - tptacek 8y ago
      I don't think any of us want to litigate the fine details of where anti-Semitism becomes white supremacy, but, if you take the time to go read Ken White's Twitter feed, you can find Gab mocking White for adopting non-white children.