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Riding consistently enough to gain speed is strongly correlated with being a better rider. I don't want to share the bike path with a bunch of 14-year-old kids

Riding consistently enough to gain speed is strongly correlated with being a better rider. I don't want to share the bike path with a bunch of 14-year-old kids traveling 40kph on electric bikes that they got for Christmas.

horsawlarway 8y ago
This is a load of horse crap. You routinely hit 25 mph (40kph) simply riding down hills on a normal bike. The 25 kph limit makes no sense. It's a slower speed than almost every rider out there, and it's frustratingly slow as a daily commute.
- enoch_r 8y ago
  My concern is about relative speed. When going down a hill, everyone is going faster. I'm more worried about unskilled and inexperienced riders blowing past slower riders on the way up the hill.
- walshemj 8y ago
  Not on the sidewalk
- wpietri 8y ago
  I definitely don't hit speeds like that in a city, and in San Francisco I have plenty of hills to give me opportunities. I don't believe it's safe given urban traffic.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  Routinely? On a standard commuter grade bike? The Oxford Cycling Club, pictured here http://www.oxfordcyclingclub.co.uk/the-kings-men/ http://www.oxfordcyclingclub.co.uk/the-kings-men/ claim an average of 20 km/h (13mph) and they're lycra clad racing-bike riders. I think you can break 25km/h readily, but I don't think that means we should increase the speed allowed with power assist. There are moves to make city traffic 32km/h (20mph) limited which would put paid to your 40km/h anyway.
  - throwaway76543 8y ago
    No they don't. The Oxford Cycling Club claims an average of 17mph -19mph or 27-30kph: https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/club/profile/7892/oxford-cycling-club https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/club/profile/7892/oxford-c... "The average speed can vary according to weather conditions and ability, but expect an overall average of around 17mph -19mph for a ride of 60 miles" Furthermore, an average speed will have significantly faster and slower portions along the ride. The OCC will drop to far slower speeds uphill and will ride far faster on the downhill.
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      They must claim different averages on different pages, https://oxfordcycling.uk/about-us/ https://oxfordcycling.uk/about-us/ says 12-13mph. Yes, of course downhill is faster. On a mountain bike I've only knowingly once managed to break 30mph, but that was going for it and definitely not erring on being safe. My average road speed at the time was about 15mph. The top speed for powered cycles should be around the normal average as then there's not a large differential between powered and unpowered bikes making it safer when they share road space.
      - throwaway76543 8y ago
        That appears to be a ride where they've deliberately set a slower pace for a ride based around socializing. 12-13 mph is about right if you're going to be leisurely carrying on conversations with fellow riders. Any faster and wind noise becomes an issue. I can't talk to my fellow riders at 20+mph. "lycra clad racing-bike riders" ride far faster. Capping a vehicle at 15mph means you'll be constantly getting passed on trails. I have ridden a 15mph capped scooter, I was one of the slowest vehicles in my local area that day. I returned it.
        pbhjpbhj 8y ago
        If you're getting passed, pedal? The top assisted ebike speed should be well below the top pedalling speed. Which it is.
- hcho 8y ago
  You need to get up that hill first, which prevents most of those who didn't do their time on the saddle to get to higher speeds.
  - clarry 8y ago
    People have granny gears. I see kids and the elderly and everything in between regularly coming down hills that get you to 25kph and more if you pedal a little. I also see unfit people hike up their bike and then ride down. I'm ok with it. If it gets them moving, my hat's off to them.
    - hcho 8y ago
      Both of which are quite a bit incovinient than flipping a switch. Hats off to them indeed but an argument for unlimited electric power based on them is a bit rubbish.
      - clarry 8y ago
        I think the argument was for limited power that you can apply on top of your unlimited muscle power, regardless of speed. I don't see why it has to be so controversial. 250W is a big boost for those who can't go fast on their own; for those who can, it's a convenient and enjoyable but relatively small boost because they can already put down hundreds of watts and increased drag (which is where most of your energy goes on flat terrain at speeds over 20kph) means massively dimnishing returns. I really don't understand why it is so controversial.
        hcho 8y ago
        I do not feel safe sharing a bike path with a guy with zero handling skills on a heavy ass bike. What is so hard to get?
briandear 8y ago
So enforce speed limits for everything in the bike lanes. Some jackass training for time trials on aero bars is just as obnoxious as “14 year old kids.” Let’s also put a length restriction on dog leashes, especially banning retractable ones. On Stevens Creek Trail in Mountain View, more dangerous than the Lance Armstrong wannabes are the women walking small dogs on retractable leashes on the bike trail. My point is that arbitrary restrictions on a specific mode of transport is ridiculous if similar rules don’t appply to everyone. The “e” in ebike/scooter is irrelevant. The jackassery is mode agnostic.

horsawlarway 8y ago

This is a load of horse crap. You routinely hit 25 mph (40kph) simply riding down hills on a normal bike. The 25 kph limit makes no sense. It's a slower speed than almost every rider out there, and it's frustratingly slow as a daily commute.

enoch_r 8y ago
My concern is about relative speed. When going down a hill, everyone is going faster. I'm more worried about unskilled and inexperienced riders blowing past slower riders on the way up the hill.
walshemj 8y ago
Not on the sidewalk
wpietri 8y ago
I definitely don't hit speeds like that in a city, and in San Francisco I have plenty of hills to give me opportunities. I don't believe it's safe given urban traffic.
pbhjpbhj 8y ago
Routinely? On a standard commuter grade bike? The Oxford Cycling Club, pictured here http://www.oxfordcyclingclub.co.uk/the-kings-men/ http://www.oxfordcyclingclub.co.uk/the-kings-men/ claim an average of 20 km/h (13mph) and they're lycra clad racing-bike riders. I think you can break 25km/h readily, but I don't think that means we should increase the speed allowed with power assist. There are moves to make city traffic 32km/h (20mph) limited which would put paid to your 40km/h anyway.
- throwaway76543 8y ago
  No they don't. The Oxford Cycling Club claims an average of 17mph -19mph or 27-30kph: https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/club/profile/7892/oxford-cycling-club https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/club/profile/7892/oxford-c... "The average speed can vary according to weather conditions and ability, but expect an overall average of around 17mph -19mph for a ride of 60 miles" Furthermore, an average speed will have significantly faster and slower portions along the ride. The OCC will drop to far slower speeds uphill and will ride far faster on the downhill.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    They must claim different averages on different pages, https://oxfordcycling.uk/about-us/ https://oxfordcycling.uk/about-us/ says 12-13mph. Yes, of course downhill is faster. On a mountain bike I've only knowingly once managed to break 30mph, but that was going for it and definitely not erring on being safe. My average road speed at the time was about 15mph. The top speed for powered cycles should be around the normal average as then there's not a large differential between powered and unpowered bikes making it safer when they share road space.
    - throwaway76543 8y ago
      That appears to be a ride where they've deliberately set a slower pace for a ride based around socializing. 12-13 mph is about right if you're going to be leisurely carrying on conversations with fellow riders. Any faster and wind noise becomes an issue. I can't talk to my fellow riders at 20+mph. "lycra clad racing-bike riders" ride far faster. Capping a vehicle at 15mph means you'll be constantly getting passed on trails. I have ridden a 15mph capped scooter, I was one of the slowest vehicles in my local area that day. I returned it.
      - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
        If you're getting passed, pedal? The top assisted ebike speed should be well below the top pedalling speed. Which it is.
hcho 8y ago
You need to get up that hill first, which prevents most of those who didn't do their time on the saddle to get to higher speeds.
- clarry 8y ago
  People have granny gears. I see kids and the elderly and everything in between regularly coming down hills that get you to 25kph and more if you pedal a little. I also see unfit people hike up their bike and then ride down. I'm ok with it. If it gets them moving, my hat's off to them.
  - hcho 8y ago
    Both of which are quite a bit incovinient than flipping a switch. Hats off to them indeed but an argument for unlimited electric power based on them is a bit rubbish.
    - clarry 8y ago
      I think the argument was for limited power that you can apply on top of your unlimited muscle power, regardless of speed. I don't see why it has to be so controversial. 250W is a big boost for those who can't go fast on their own; for those who can, it's a convenient and enjoyable but relatively small boost because they can already put down hundreds of watts and increased drag (which is where most of your energy goes on flat terrain at speeds over 20kph) means massively dimnishing returns. I really don't understand why it is so controversial.
      - hcho 8y ago
        I do not feel safe sharing a bike path with a guy with zero handling skills on a heavy ass bike. What is so hard to get?

briandear 8y ago

So enforce speed limits for everything in the bike lanes. Some jackass training for time trials on aero bars is just as obnoxious as “14 year old kids.” Let’s also put a length restriction on dog leashes, especially banning retractable ones. On Stevens Creek Trail in Mountain View, more dangerous than the Lance Armstrong wannabes are the women walking small dogs on retractable leashes on the bike trail. My point is that arbitrary restrictions on a specific mode of transport is ridiculous if similar rules don’t appply to everyone. The “e” in ebike/scooter is irrelevant. The jackassery is mode agnostic.