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I feel horrible for what she went through as a child, and still goes through. But. For this article, if felt she was over-analyzing and extrapolating a bit muc
by pcurve 8y ago
I feel horrible for what she went through as a child, and still goes through. But. For this article, if felt she was over-analyzing and extrapolating a bit much.
This one felt borderline unnecessary and hyperbolic:
"No one cared what I was doing. Is this what it feels like to shop when you're not black? "
- jtbayly 8y agoThat's where I stopped reading. The answer is "no."
- stanleydrew 8y agoI would say the answer is "yes." Or at least that's how I feel when I shop, and I'm not black.
- andrewchambers 8y agoPeople should stop talking for others when they are unelected or not nominated. Just because she feels that way, doesn't mean every black person does. Maybe many do, but I don't think it is productive to speak for other people's experience. Of course when speaking for oneself, then it is fine to say anything.
- TazeTSchnitzel 8y agoI'm a white person and I'm pretty sure people don't treat me worse for my skin colour when shopping. Is that a controversial statement?
- andrewchambers 8y agoNo - I didn't say it was.
- PhasmaFelis 8y agoThat seems like a great way to ignore basically any complaint, by dismissing it as a lone outlier. All other things being equal, it should be pretty clear that a given black person is more qualified to speak about the black experience than a given white person is to refute them. If you have reason to believe that this particular writer is unreliable or not representative, then by all means share them.
- miemo 8y agoall black people have the same experiences? heyooo
- andrewchambers 8y agoI didn't say the writer is unreliable or wrong, and didn't meant to seem dismissive. > it should be pretty clear that a given black person is more qualified to speak about the black experience than a given white person is to refute them I think people are only qualified to speak about their own feelings and experience, just not for other people unless those people requested that.
- fjsolwmv 8y agoYour opinion on what people are qualified to speak about is irrelevant, according to your own logic.
- andrewchambers 8y agoNo, its not irrelevant, but it is just my opinion. I'm not saying it is more than my opinion.
- salvar 8y ago> People should stop talking for others Other people should do that you say?
- Dylan16807 8y agoYep, that's what they said. You can read it right there in the comment. Are you trying to imply something? I hope you're not trying to imply hypocrisy, because saying what someone should do is not speaking for them.
- salvar 8y agoYeah that's fair. It was a weak argument.
- andrewchambers 8y agoI didn't mean to say the argument is wrong or anything. I just think its dangerous to get into things like: "As a hacker news poster, we all feel that ..." Not even targeting this article in particular, it isn't bad at all from that perspective, just a trend I have been seeing and thinking about.
- salvar 8y agoYeah I get what you mean. I was just making a bad argument delivered in an unnecessarily snarky way. All good.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- jtbayly 8y agoI’m white and I don’t feel that way. So obviously it isn’t being “white” or not that determines whether you feel that way while shopping. And I feel incredibly similarly to her when I walk into Starbucks and pickup my prepaid drink. I imagine I would feel just like her shopping at Amazon Go as well. I’m not denying there are differences in how you are treated depending on your race. In fact, as a father of black children it is my responsibility to make them aware of the extra level of care they need to engage, during shopping for example. But the feelings she shares are not unique to being black.
- stanleydrew 8y agoI don't dispute any of this. I think people may have lost the thread a little bit. The author's statement was > No one cared what I was doing. Is this what it feels like to shop when you're not black? The author does imply that all black people are eyed with suspicion when shopping, which is impossible to say but almost surely not true. However the answer to the question can still be "yes" without giving in to the implication.
- domador 8y agoAre you black, jtbayly? If not, are there other reasons why the people in the (presumably white) majority (unjustly) profile you and pay wary attention to you? (If I may ask, of course.)
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- SeanBoocock 8y agoI don't understand this sentiment. The author describes her lived experience shopping as a black woman throughout her life. She also points to recent publicized examples of black people being subject to poor treatment while engaging in normal activities. If you had lived your entire life being weary of store clerks, having inculcated that lesson in childhood, why wouldn't her observation be both genuine and important?
- pcurve 8y agoI empathized with her experience described in the first half of the article fully. But then she started making connection to Amazon Go by saying: "The idea of walking into a store, taking an item or several off the shelves and strolling right back out again boggled my mind. It ran counter to everything I had learned about being black and shopping." I think the idea would run counter to everybody regardless of race. "I was afraid someone would pop out from behind a display of Amazon-branded merch and scream, "Get your hands off that!" I also didn't find above statement particularly credible or representative of average person. The article just felt a tad forced, and I stand by this observation despite all the down votes.
- ncallaway 8y ago> I also didn't find above statement particularly credible or representative of average person What data do you have to back up your determination of credibility here? Is it based on surveys and discussions with minority populations who have similar shared experiences to the author or is it based largely on a comparison to your own personal lived experience?
- Udik 8y ago> She also points to recent publicized examples of black people being subject to poor treatment while engaging in normal activities. The one about Oprah in Zurich is absolute bullshit. When you take in account that the boutique in question is one of Zurich's most luxurious (not for nothing they have $38k purses on sale) you can imagine the type of treatment any customer gets from the salespeople, who are used to see incredibly rich customers from any part of the world pop in for their shopping. If anything, the episode highlights exactly the hyper-sensitivity of some people (given that Oprah didn't just lie to publicise her then upcoming movie on the theme of racism, "The Butler").
- eagsalazar2 8y agoWow, just wow. You have no idea what it is like, if she says it feels like she is always been watched and suspected of stealing then finds shopping at Go to be a refreshing break from that, what exactly is "hyperbolic" about that and how would you know if it is hyperbolic or not anyway??
- Greed 8y agoIf it sounds ridiculous to you, it's because it is. The fact that you find it absurd only really underlines the point being made there, and that point is that "doing things while black" is a lifetime of uncomfortable, unnecessary, and subtly discriminatory experiences that you learn to expect and prepare for. I assume if you're on HN that you have at least one well-paid black coworker in tech. Ask them how often they get uncomfortable, questioning looks while walking around their own neighborhood and you'll see exactly how hyperbolic that statement is.