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> If you have a new Windows 10 PC and want to download Chrome, how else could you do it besides "using Microsoft Edge to download Chrome"? Simply visit Google.

> If you have a new Windows 10 PC and want to download Chrome, how else could you do it besides "using Microsoft Edge to download Chrome"? Simply visit Google.com, Gmail, Youtube or any other Google-site and await the Chrome-spam 100% guaranteed to appear in any browser not Chrome. My favorite one: “Upgrade your browser”. Not misleading at all, eh? How about “no”?

TaylorAlexander 8y ago
This is a tangent/pile-on, but this is not the only dark pattern google engages in. I absolutely do not want YouTube Red. Any software that respects the user would let you dismiss the offer with an option for “do not ask me again.” And yet, because the software is not respecting the user, YouTube asks me ad nauseum if I want to upgrade to YouTube Red. No. I do not. But I don’t get an option for no. There is something like “yes” and “maybe later.” No google. My answer is no. Please respect me enough to let me make that choice.
- fjsolwmv 8y ago
  Ad-supported software has ads. No liking the ads and refusing to pay for the product isn't a grand moral stand.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    This isn’t the same thing. Some people are happy with viewing ads in general, but are not happy with aggressive pop-ups that tell them to upgrad. In essence these alerts are saying their choice is the wrong one, even though it’s a choice that YouTube itself gave them.
    - wtracy 8y ago
      More specifically: "good" ads aren't modal and don't force you to click through to continue. If YouTube just mixed YouTube Red ads in with all their other ads, I doubt that anyone would be complaining. (Except for the people who want everything to be free without any ads.)
      - LeoNatan25 8y ago
        A good ad is a blocked ad.
- broknbottle 8y ago
  Would you like to try YouTube Red for 30 days?
  - ninju 8y ago
    No thanks (again and again) :-)
- paulie_a 8y ago
  YouTube red spam is obnoxious. Same with apps that ask for a review and the options are "not now, or not right now" I'm never going to leave a review.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 8y ago
    Funny, when an app is obnoxious about asking for a review, I always oblige. My review will of course focus mostly on my most recent experience with the app, which was "getting annoyed with an obnoxious pop-up". I hope that this discourages app authors from doing that.
    - paulie_a 8y ago
      I should start doing that. I do occasionally fill out the stupid lengthy third party form sites use. It has a red logo, I forget the name of it. But in the free form comment section I explain how obnoxious it is. Also that company will hopefully go bankrupt asap.
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      Presumably they just dump your review.
- adanto6840 8y ago
  Try buying a Nest camera and NOT buying their "Nest Aware" subscription. You'll be stuck with a massive bar on the bottom of your camera web views -- cannot be dismissed: https://imgur.com/a/iR5C9bH https://imgur.com/a/iR5C9bH Their support team responds to (numerous) requests from multiple users about it saying roughly "cannot be disabled without buying but we'll let engineering dept. know you want that". Yeah, right, like it's an engineering problem. Worse yet -- if you have >1 Nest camera, and you DO pay for Nest Aware on some but not all of them, the banner still shows up on any camera views you aren't subscribing for. It's really crappy because the bottom bar is a fixed height, so if you shrink the browser window it can easily take up >=50% of your viewport. Absolutely absurd -- only option once you have their hardware is to use a plugin/bookmarklet to kill the nag bar's CSS. =(
- dingdingdang 8y ago
  Tangential on top of the pile-on: when using a "not-logged into google services browser that is not Chrome" the Google captchas produced are at times never ending for me (i.e. I will never spot enough traffic lights and cars for them to let me past). Would be interested in whether others have had similar experiences?
RandyRanderson 8y ago
I'm not a fan of the tactic either but MS does the same thing all the time. Also FF, Chrome and Safari ARE upgrades to Edge/IE by any reasonable metric. You've probably never had to write a non-trivial cross browser app. Try it and then let's see how you feel.
- kbenson 8y ago
  Yeah, picking on the upgrade wording is tricky, and cuts both ways. It has a common, semi-specific meaning with computers, but has also been used for far longer in the more general way it's used here. If you say "I upgraded my stereo system", I would consider the chance you meant that to imply you got better versions of the same devices from the same manufacturer to be essentially nil. I'm that respect, it may seem misleading if you do a lot of work with computer or have for many years, buts maybe it isn't much to a layperson?
  - veridies 8y ago
    If you said you upgraded your stereo, though, I’d expect you bought something pretty clearly nicer, eg by moving from a pair of PC speakers to a professional hifi. I wouldn’t expect that you’d have moved from one well-respected hifi manufacturer to another with different tradeoffs. Admittedly IE is pretty awful, but Chrome and FF are effectively comparable; “upgrade” is too strong a word for switching between them.
    - kbenson 8y ago
      > I wouldn’t expect that you’d have moved from one well-respected hifi manufacturer to another with different tradeoffs. I think you either have more respect for manufacturers and how they advertise, or have a higher estimation for people's ability to successfully wade through marketing bullshit than me. Here's a question, is replacing your stereo cables with gold plated monster cables an "upgrade"? What do you think the average person thinks. > Chrome and FF are effectively comparable that depends quite a bit on the criteria used to judge them. If you value your privacy, I don't think the are comparable (as a synonym for similar) at all.
rustcharm 8y ago
This is a "bing" issue, not an "edge" issue.
chrisweekly 8y ago
I hear your intended point, but the question was "how else..." which your answer didn't address. "Simply visit..." implies use of a browser, and for a new Win10 machine that browser will be Edge.
- josteink 8y ago
  Sure. But searching bing is not needed.
SilverSlash 8y ago
Compared to edge, calling it an "upgrade" isn't really lying.

TaylorAlexander 8y ago

This is a tangent/pile-on, but this is not the only dark pattern google engages in. I absolutely do not want YouTube Red. Any software that respects the user would let you dismiss the offer with an option for “do not ask me again.” And yet, because the software is not respecting the user, YouTube asks me ad nauseum if I want to upgrade to YouTube Red. No. I do not. But I don’t get an option for no. There is something like “yes” and “maybe later.” No google. My answer is no. Please respect me enough to let me make that choice.

fjsolwmv 8y ago
Ad-supported software has ads. No liking the ads and refusing to pay for the product isn't a grand moral stand.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  This isn’t the same thing. Some people are happy with viewing ads in general, but are not happy with aggressive pop-ups that tell them to upgrad. In essence these alerts are saying their choice is the wrong one, even though it’s a choice that YouTube itself gave them.
  - wtracy 8y ago
    More specifically: "good" ads aren't modal and don't force you to click through to continue. If YouTube just mixed YouTube Red ads in with all their other ads, I doubt that anyone would be complaining. (Except for the people who want everything to be free without any ads.)
    - LeoNatan25 8y ago
      A good ad is a blocked ad.
broknbottle 8y ago
Would you like to try YouTube Red for 30 days?
- ninju 8y ago
  No thanks (again and again) :-)
paulie_a 8y ago
YouTube red spam is obnoxious. Same with apps that ask for a review and the options are "not now, or not right now" I'm never going to leave a review.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 8y ago
  Funny, when an app is obnoxious about asking for a review, I always oblige. My review will of course focus mostly on my most recent experience with the app, which was "getting annoyed with an obnoxious pop-up". I hope that this discourages app authors from doing that.
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    I should start doing that. I do occasionally fill out the stupid lengthy third party form sites use. It has a red logo, I forget the name of it. But in the free form comment section I explain how obnoxious it is. Also that company will hopefully go bankrupt asap.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    Presumably they just dump your review.
adanto6840 8y ago
Try buying a Nest camera and NOT buying their "Nest Aware" subscription. You'll be stuck with a massive bar on the bottom of your camera web views -- cannot be dismissed: https://imgur.com/a/iR5C9bH https://imgur.com/a/iR5C9bH Their support team responds to (numerous) requests from multiple users about it saying roughly "cannot be disabled without buying but we'll let engineering dept. know you want that". Yeah, right, like it's an engineering problem. Worse yet -- if you have >1 Nest camera, and you DO pay for Nest Aware on some but not all of them, the banner still shows up on any camera views you aren't subscribing for. It's really crappy because the bottom bar is a fixed height, so if you shrink the browser window it can easily take up >=50% of your viewport. Absolutely absurd -- only option once you have their hardware is to use a plugin/bookmarklet to kill the nag bar's CSS. =(
dingdingdang 8y ago
Tangential on top of the pile-on: when using a "not-logged into google services browser that is not Chrome" the Google captchas produced are at times never ending for me (i.e. I will never spot enough traffic lights and cars for them to let me past). Would be interested in whether others have had similar experiences?

RandyRanderson 8y ago

I'm not a fan of the tactic either but MS does the same thing all the time. Also FF, Chrome and Safari ARE upgrades to Edge/IE by any reasonable metric. You've probably never had to write a non-trivial cross browser app. Try it and then let's see how you feel.

kbenson 8y ago
Yeah, picking on the upgrade wording is tricky, and cuts both ways. It has a common, semi-specific meaning with computers, but has also been used for far longer in the more general way it's used here. If you say "I upgraded my stereo system", I would consider the chance you meant that to imply you got better versions of the same devices from the same manufacturer to be essentially nil. I'm that respect, it may seem misleading if you do a lot of work with computer or have for many years, buts maybe it isn't much to a layperson?
- veridies 8y ago
  If you said you upgraded your stereo, though, I’d expect you bought something pretty clearly nicer, eg by moving from a pair of PC speakers to a professional hifi. I wouldn’t expect that you’d have moved from one well-respected hifi manufacturer to another with different tradeoffs. Admittedly IE is pretty awful, but Chrome and FF are effectively comparable; “upgrade” is too strong a word for switching between them.
  - kbenson 8y ago
    > I wouldn’t expect that you’d have moved from one well-respected hifi manufacturer to another with different tradeoffs. I think you either have more respect for manufacturers and how they advertise, or have a higher estimation for people's ability to successfully wade through marketing bullshit than me. Here's a question, is replacing your stereo cables with gold plated monster cables an "upgrade"? What do you think the average person thinks. > Chrome and FF are effectively comparable that depends quite a bit on the criteria used to judge them. If you value your privacy, I don't think the are comparable (as a synonym for similar) at all.

rustcharm 8y ago

This is a "bing" issue, not an "edge" issue.

chrisweekly 8y ago

I hear your intended point, but the question was "how else..." which your answer didn't address. "Simply visit..." implies use of a browser, and for a new Win10 machine that browser will be Edge.

josteink 8y ago
Sure. But searching bing is not needed.

SilverSlash 8y ago

Compared to edge, calling it an "upgrade" isn't really lying.