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I really enjoyed Supreme Commander. There are a number of features (scale, strategic zoom, automation controls) that I wish were more popular in RTS's. Planet

I really enjoyed Supreme Commander. There are a number of features (scale, strategic zoom, automation controls) that I wish were more popular in RTS's. Planetary annihilation tried to extend the concept in a novel way, but the execution stumbled a little bit and the micro transactions were aggravating. That being said, I think SupCom had a critical error that really hampered the longevity of the gameplay. SupCom (and Total Annihilation) follows the "Upgrade is Upgrade" model of game progression. This is a really common model in a lot of mediocre RTS's. Basically it means that in the early part of the game, you build a selection of robots, tanks, artillery, and planes. At some point you "upgrade" your economy and build a new selection robots, tanks, artillery and planes that are almost identical to the first batch but are bigger and better. And then this happens again and you build a 3rd set of units that are almost identical to the first and second sets of units, except they're even bigger and better. If that sounds repetitious and tedious, that's because it is. Basically you repeat the same game 3 times before you start getting to end game units that start offering you new and different strategic options. This is contrasted by Warcraft and Starcraft's "Upgrade is Sidegrade" model. In these games, every unit represents a new and unique set of options. You upgrade your economy in order to create an army that moves faster, or in the air, or has better artillery option. Economic progression is used to drive new tactics and strategy, or is used to counter your opponent's new units. In this model, the play changes as you move through the different stages of the game. This is much more interesting to play and watch as the game is constantly evolving as players produce new types of units. If someone could combine Planetary Annihilation's concept, with SupCom's execution of scale, and Starcraft's polish and upgrade model, I think we'd have an RTS for the ages.

Farradfahren 8y ago
Ever tried something from the spring-engine game family? http://springrts.com/ http://springrts.com/ Like Zero-k? https://store.steampowered.com/app/334920/ZeroK/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/334920/ZeroK/
jbattle 8y ago
You are on to something, but as a counterpoint: The T2 navy gives a lot of options not present in T1 - largely due to longer ranges. T1 subs and frigates mostly only interact with other naval units. But T2 get cruisers and destroyers anywhere near a coastline and they put large areas under thread A lot of T2 & T3 units have weird special powers (e.g. the destroyer that can sprout legs and walk on land, the T3 Loyalist has built-in TMD). These are somewhat sparsely distributed though The experimental units obviously have a lot of character Depending on circumstances, T1 units remain viable throughout the game. I've seen tons of matches where a T3-heavy naval invasion is pushed back by overwhelming numbers of amphibious T1 units (Zthuees) Making the switch from T1 to T2 and then to T3 is a huge part of the strategy of the game. It is true that the higher tier units are more efficient per unit of resource, but there are real costs (both in resources and in time) to upgrading your force and the decision of when to upgrade is never easy
- alyandon 8y ago
  I also found it very effective even in late game to mix in t1 artillery units with mostly t2/t3 unit armies because they tend to spread their damage around so effectively.
tomatotomato37 8y ago
I remember reading some SC strategy thing that showed that the tech upgrades aren't true upgrades in terms of mass to DPS; the textbook example being the mass equivalent of T1 uef mechs putting out a notably higher DPS than a aeon colossus. While that stark of a discrepancy isn't useful in practice, the continual pumping out of a lower tier to support a spear of your current tech level to beat out a mass equivalence of just the higher tech level is a viable strategy in the mp
Dylan16807 8y ago
Starcraft, like SupCom, has both upgrades and sidegrades. The attack and defense +1/+2/+3 upgrades are a huge part of the strategy. They're similarly expensive and slow and flatly better.
Synaesthesia 8y ago
There are a lot of aspects of Starcraft which make it superior, not only the fact that there is no redundancy, every unit is unique, and they all have special abilities, which are unique. Each race is also different. The gameplay is much smoother and responsive for micro. Basically you can tell they’ve really thought about the game design and continued to polish it, even today. That said I would love to have zooming in SC2, no idea why it’s not available, it’s already in the engine for replays.
baddox 8y ago
I mean, Starcraft and Warcraft both have tech trees with new units you unlock throughout each game. That’s not much different.
deaddodo 8y ago
> At some point you "upgrade" your economy and build a new selection robots, tanks, artillery and planes that are almost identical to the first batch but are bigger and better. While this is somewhat true, there are definitely T1 units that trump T2 and T2 that trump T3, due to specializations and cost. For instance, massed T2 UEF AA units are great for taking out T3 air on the cheap; especially if you're focused on land combat.

Farradfahren 8y ago

Ever tried something from the spring-engine game family? http://springrts.com/ http://springrts.com/ Like Zero-k? https://store.steampowered.com/app/334920/ZeroK/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/334920/ZeroK/

jbattle 8y ago

You are on to something, but as a counterpoint: The T2 navy gives a lot of options not present in T1 - largely due to longer ranges. T1 subs and frigates mostly only interact with other naval units. But T2 get cruisers and destroyers anywhere near a coastline and they put large areas under thread A lot of T2 & T3 units have weird special powers (e.g. the destroyer that can sprout legs and walk on land, the T3 Loyalist has built-in TMD). These are somewhat sparsely distributed though The experimental units obviously have a lot of character Depending on circumstances, T1 units remain viable throughout the game. I've seen tons of matches where a T3-heavy naval invasion is pushed back by overwhelming numbers of amphibious T1 units (Zthuees) Making the switch from T1 to T2 and then to T3 is a huge part of the strategy of the game. It is true that the higher tier units are more efficient per unit of resource, but there are real costs (both in resources and in time) to upgrading your force and the decision of when to upgrade is never easy

alyandon 8y ago
I also found it very effective even in late game to mix in t1 artillery units with mostly t2/t3 unit armies because they tend to spread their damage around so effectively.

tomatotomato37 8y ago

I remember reading some SC strategy thing that showed that the tech upgrades aren't true upgrades in terms of mass to DPS; the textbook example being the mass equivalent of T1 uef mechs putting out a notably higher DPS than a aeon colossus. While that stark of a discrepancy isn't useful in practice, the continual pumping out of a lower tier to support a spear of your current tech level to beat out a mass equivalence of just the higher tech level is a viable strategy in the mp

Dylan16807 8y ago

Starcraft, like SupCom, has both upgrades and sidegrades. The attack and defense +1/+2/+3 upgrades are a huge part of the strategy. They're similarly expensive and slow and flatly better.

Synaesthesia 8y ago

There are a lot of aspects of Starcraft which make it superior, not only the fact that there is no redundancy, every unit is unique, and they all have special abilities, which are unique. Each race is also different. The gameplay is much smoother and responsive for micro. Basically you can tell they’ve really thought about the game design and continued to polish it, even today. That said I would love to have zooming in SC2, no idea why it’s not available, it’s already in the engine for replays.

baddox 8y ago

I mean, Starcraft and Warcraft both have tech trees with new units you unlock throughout each game. That’s not much different.

deaddodo 8y ago

> At some point you "upgrade" your economy and build a new selection robots, tanks, artillery and planes that are almost identical to the first batch but are bigger and better. While this is somewhat true, there are definitely T1 units that trump T2 and T2 that trump T3, due to specializations and cost. For instance, massed T2 UEF AA units are great for taking out T3 air on the cheap; especially if you're focused on land combat.