4 ms·

In the realm of web development (which the OP is), most developers have probably done at least some HTML and SQL. Sure there are folks who work at larger organ

In the realm of web development (which the OP is), most developers have probably done at least some HTML and SQL. Sure there are folks who work at larger organizations where the SQL may be done by a different group than the web stuff, so maybe bad programmer is making too many assumptions. Maybe programmer with very limited scope.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
joezydeco 16y ago
Lots of embedded programmers I know don't consider web development as "programming". Just sayin'.
- jrockway 16y ago
  Lots of people think the sun revolves around the Earth. Just sayin'.
  - X-Istence 16y ago
    It doesn't? This is news to me, do you have anymore information for me? I am in intrigued as that would change the entire model of the universe I have right now. </sarcasm> I've seen some web development in the past that was absolutely horrid, and I hope that after that project not a single programmer has to EVER touch code like that again.
    - pavel_lishin 16y ago
      > I've seen some web development in the past that was absolutely horrid What's your point?
      - X-Istence 16y ago
        That web developers don't necessarily fall in the realm of software development/engineering. I should have finished that post, I just kinda left it hanging. Something else came into mind at the time and I mindlessly hit submit.
- mkr-hn 16y ago
  Web development covers a lot more than writing markup.
- sjs 16y ago
  And lots of programmers I know would call them closed minded star-bellied sneeches. Just sayin.
- nadam 16y ago
  web is just one kind of user interface. I think those guys more generally refer to applications which are mostly user interfaces to a database and do not involve too much algorithmization challenges. As far as I am concerned I like algorithmization better, but most jobs out there are mostly UI and database related, so I have to deal with that.
- jpr 16y ago
  That's funny, I don't consider twiddling bits of some gizmo programming.
  - mahmud 16y ago
    I would have mercilessly flamed you for saying this a few years ago, but then I met someone who made millions from writing his own BIOS for embedded systems, since early 80s. I love him, he is a good friend, his work runs industrial equipment that power the world. But .. Talking to him about the most primitive constructs in computing: say, variables, or calling conventions, or the simplest data structures has been a teeth-pulling experience. One of the tricks he invented involved saving the registers for interruptible code to fixed locations in memory: he reasoned that saving X registers at Y clock-cycles would meet his soft-realtime requirements. He also kept an index, that stored the last instruction that was executing when the code was interrupted, so he can restore the "handler" later. He "invented" this ~25 years ago. Let that sink in. My friend invented context-saving, all by his own, really, and there is no way in bloody hell to tell him that it EXISTED since before he was born. I am mightly impressed by his work, all of it self-taught and wildly profitable. But it's just sad that I, a two-bit paper-hacker with nothing to his credit can look at his Magnum Opus and have a name for every invention, not to mention research references, and suggest alternatives. Embedded hackers are competent, but FUCK, sometimes they need to see past board specs and stupid timings. College Freshmen can out produce them, and those kids are running 100% simulated stuff in Java and Flash. Something has to be said for rigor, depth, and breadth of knowledge, but most importantly abstraction. Who cares if you can operate industrial electronic equipment, if some kid with PLT Scheme can create a cycle-accurate simulator of your equipment in 2-weeks, and out-codes you after that?

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

joezydeco 16y ago

Lots of embedded programmers I know don't consider web development as "programming". Just sayin'.

jrockway 16y ago
Lots of people think the sun revolves around the Earth. Just sayin'.
- X-Istence 16y ago
  It doesn't? This is news to me, do you have anymore information for me? I am in intrigued as that would change the entire model of the universe I have right now. </sarcasm> I've seen some web development in the past that was absolutely horrid, and I hope that after that project not a single programmer has to EVER touch code like that again.
  - pavel_lishin 16y ago
    > I've seen some web development in the past that was absolutely horrid What's your point?
    - X-Istence 16y ago
      That web developers don't necessarily fall in the realm of software development/engineering. I should have finished that post, I just kinda left it hanging. Something else came into mind at the time and I mindlessly hit submit.
mkr-hn 16y ago
Web development covers a lot more than writing markup.
sjs 16y ago
And lots of programmers I know would call them closed minded star-bellied sneeches. Just sayin.
nadam 16y ago
web is just one kind of user interface. I think those guys more generally refer to applications which are mostly user interfaces to a database and do not involve too much algorithmization challenges. As far as I am concerned I like algorithmization better, but most jobs out there are mostly UI and database related, so I have to deal with that.
jpr 16y ago
That's funny, I don't consider twiddling bits of some gizmo programming.
- mahmud 16y ago
  I would have mercilessly flamed you for saying this a few years ago, but then I met someone who made millions from writing his own BIOS for embedded systems, since early 80s. I love him, he is a good friend, his work runs industrial equipment that power the world. But .. Talking to him about the most primitive constructs in computing: say, variables, or calling conventions, or the simplest data structures has been a teeth-pulling experience. One of the tricks he invented involved saving the registers for interruptible code to fixed locations in memory: he reasoned that saving X registers at Y clock-cycles would meet his soft-realtime requirements. He also kept an index, that stored the last instruction that was executing when the code was interrupted, so he can restore the "handler" later. He "invented" this ~25 years ago. Let that sink in. My friend invented context-saving, all by his own, really, and there is no way in bloody hell to tell him that it EXISTED since before he was born. I am mightly impressed by his work, all of it self-taught and wildly profitable. But it's just sad that I, a two-bit paper-hacker with nothing to his credit can look at his Magnum Opus and have a name for every invention, not to mention research references, and suggest alternatives. Embedded hackers are competent, but FUCK, sometimes they need to see past board specs and stupid timings. College Freshmen can out produce them, and those kids are running 100% simulated stuff in Java and Flash. Something has to be said for rigor, depth, and breadth of knowledge, but most importantly abstraction. Who cares if you can operate industrial electronic equipment, if some kid with PLT Scheme can create a cycle-accurate simulator of your equipment in 2-weeks, and out-codes you after that?