3 ms·

Until Apple growth streak breaks and they start to use data like everyone else and using data is a good thing.

by _Codemonkeyism 8y ago

Cthulhu_ 8y ago
That would mean they pivot from a hardware company to an advertising company; I don't see that happening myself.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  I thought they were a design/branding company -- what proportion of hardware do they make themselves. Again I thought they outsourced [most of] that?
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    This is really a pedantic point. By your metric, most companies we know today as making “hardware” are not hardware companies because they don’t make every component that goes into their products themselves.
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      Not every component, I did put in specifiers to emphasise that. If I design a chip and you fab it then I'm a designer and you're a manufacturer. I'm not accusing them of white-labelling or anything. So, perhaps someone can say how much they manufacture in their own fabs/factories as I asked? Meta HN can be very anti-truth, just post "Apple actually own 95% of all their manufacturing", or whatever with a source -- surely the question is valid??
  - mitchty 8y ago
    > I thought they were a design/branding company A design/branding company that designs their own chips? Sure then they are a design company. A company that builds brands, also sure. What proportion of hardware do they have to "make" themselves to be considered a hardware producer? Having TSMC fab silicon doesn't make Apple any less of a hardware company than BMW not being a car company because they buy ECU's from Bosch.
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      I've no idea about BMW but if they did the design and someone else did the manufacture, then BMW would still be a car company; they would 'just' be designers and not manufacturers. What's wrong with that? So, if Apple make [all] their own hardware except the silicon then you could have answered the question rather than composing a strawman. Yes, if BMW don't make their own electrical systems it makes them less of a car company. Is that controversial to you? It's supremely sensible for a company to buy expertise by outsourcing elements of manufacture of complex products IMO.
      - mitchty 8y ago
        > I've no idea about BMW but if they did the design and someone else did the manufacture, then BMW would still be a car company; they would 'just' be designers and not manufacturers. What's wrong with that? In a nutshell, it ignores modern reality. BMW isn't in the business of building ECU's, they leave that to Bosch. Similarly to how Airbus and Boeing both don't build their own APU's and buy/contract out the building of that to experts. > So, if Apple make [all] their own hardware except the silicon then you could have answered the question rather than composing a strawman. Strawman how? You've an absolutist view of manufacturing that no manufacturer could meet. I'm almost certain that any phone you have has an 8 bit micro that guaranteed wasn't designed or built by the people that put it in. Same as capacitors. Apple designed their A series chips, their faceid stuff, touchid, security enclave, ac chargers, etc... They contracted out to someone else to build it and used other things like qualcomm LTE chips when there isn't much other choice. I work at a company that does the same for custom hardware as well. I'd be hard pressed to hear that we didn't "design" our own stuff. > Yes, if BMW don't make their own electrical systems it makes them less of a car company. Is that controversial to you? It's supremely sensible for a company to buy expertise by outsourcing elements of manufacture of complex products IMO. Is it controversial to me? Yes only in that you completely contradicted your own viewpoints in a single post. Your end is sensible, the start is not. Mostly as its not a very useful view of modern manufacturing. Lots of components are off the shelf from other companies. More than you might think. Doesn't mean BMW isn't a car company, or Boeing isn't an aircraft company. It is no different than pulling in a shared library for xml or json parsing instead of rolling your own.
- pgeorgi 8y ago
  Cambridge Analytics isn't an ad company but very much working with personal data. All that health data in healthkit would be a treasure trove for insurances, even without using it for adverts (but for determining premiums, for example) Apple pay could tie into a credit scoring system. And so on...
macintux 8y ago
If Apple thought an eventual about-face on this issue was a business strategy they might need to employ, they'd hardly be pushing so publicly and loudly on it. Growth may stall, but throwing away one of their primary advantages over nearly every other tech company is a pretty stupid strategy.

Until Apple growth streak breaks and they start to use data like everyone else and using data is a good thing.

Cthulhu_ 8y ago

That would mean they pivot from a hardware company to an advertising company; I don't see that happening myself.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
I thought they were a design/branding company -- what proportion of hardware do they make themselves. Again I thought they outsourced [most of] that?
- saagarjha 8y ago
  This is really a pedantic point. By your metric, most companies we know today as making “hardware” are not hardware companies because they don’t make every component that goes into their products themselves.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    Not every component, I did put in specifiers to emphasise that. If I design a chip and you fab it then I'm a designer and you're a manufacturer. I'm not accusing them of white-labelling or anything. So, perhaps someone can say how much they manufacture in their own fabs/factories as I asked? Meta HN can be very anti-truth, just post "Apple actually own 95% of all their manufacturing", or whatever with a source -- surely the question is valid??
- mitchty 8y ago
  > I thought they were a design/branding company A design/branding company that designs their own chips? Sure then they are a design company. A company that builds brands, also sure. What proportion of hardware do they have to "make" themselves to be considered a hardware producer? Having TSMC fab silicon doesn't make Apple any less of a hardware company than BMW not being a car company because they buy ECU's from Bosch.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    I've no idea about BMW but if they did the design and someone else did the manufacture, then BMW would still be a car company; they would 'just' be designers and not manufacturers. What's wrong with that? So, if Apple make [all] their own hardware except the silicon then you could have answered the question rather than composing a strawman. Yes, if BMW don't make their own electrical systems it makes them less of a car company. Is that controversial to you? It's supremely sensible for a company to buy expertise by outsourcing elements of manufacture of complex products IMO.
    - mitchty 8y ago
      > I've no idea about BMW but if they did the design and someone else did the manufacture, then BMW would still be a car company; they would 'just' be designers and not manufacturers. What's wrong with that? In a nutshell, it ignores modern reality. BMW isn't in the business of building ECU's, they leave that to Bosch. Similarly to how Airbus and Boeing both don't build their own APU's and buy/contract out the building of that to experts. > So, if Apple make [all] their own hardware except the silicon then you could have answered the question rather than composing a strawman. Strawman how? You've an absolutist view of manufacturing that no manufacturer could meet. I'm almost certain that any phone you have has an 8 bit micro that guaranteed wasn't designed or built by the people that put it in. Same as capacitors. Apple designed their A series chips, their faceid stuff, touchid, security enclave, ac chargers, etc... They contracted out to someone else to build it and used other things like qualcomm LTE chips when there isn't much other choice. I work at a company that does the same for custom hardware as well. I'd be hard pressed to hear that we didn't "design" our own stuff. > Yes, if BMW don't make their own electrical systems it makes them less of a car company. Is that controversial to you? It's supremely sensible for a company to buy expertise by outsourcing elements of manufacture of complex products IMO. Is it controversial to me? Yes only in that you completely contradicted your own viewpoints in a single post. Your end is sensible, the start is not. Mostly as its not a very useful view of modern manufacturing. Lots of components are off the shelf from other companies. More than you might think. Doesn't mean BMW isn't a car company, or Boeing isn't an aircraft company. It is no different than pulling in a shared library for xml or json parsing instead of rolling your own.
pgeorgi 8y ago
Cambridge Analytics isn't an ad company but very much working with personal data. All that health data in healthkit would be a treasure trove for insurances, even without using it for adverts (but for determining premiums, for example) Apple pay could tie into a credit scoring system. And so on...

macintux 8y ago

If Apple thought an eventual about-face on this issue was a business strategy they might need to employ, they'd hardly be pushing so publicly and loudly on it. Growth may stall, but throwing away one of their primary advantages over nearly every other tech company is a pretty stupid strategy.