4 ms·

I think most national currencies are based on religious-like beliefs and mass delusions to some extent. Take the USD for instance. With "in God we trust", and y

I think most national currencies are based on religious-like beliefs and mass delusions to some extent. Take the USD for instance. With "in God we trust", and you have your great leaders and "prophets" i.e. founding fathers such as George Washington and Benjamin Franklin printed on the back, governed by a government that is bound to the "commandments" i.e. the Constitution... All the while, the Whitehouse mysteriously glows as the nation's printing press is busy churning out a few more batches of fiat in secret.

Scoundreller 8y ago
But very few people are holding onto USD bills with the expectation that they'll go up in value, or suddenly have some new use.
- IAmGraydon 8y ago
  The foreign exchange market is the largest market on earth, and quite a lot of it is speculative, actually.
hudon 8y ago
Yes but that’s not really news. I think the article’s elucidation is that Cryptocurrency, like money, is comprised of humans and thus has all the same baggage (as opposed to being a non-human solution that avoids issues of trust or governance).
wallacoloo 8y ago
For USD, I think the commandments would be the invariants of the monetary policy, as opposed to the entire constitution: "inflation shall average 2%", "grow the money supply to prevent deflation", and "shrink the money supply to reduce inflation". The religious part is made apparent by it being so difficult to explain why 2008 didn't lead to significant inflation - whereas inflation appears a direct result if the reasoning of these policies is accurate - yet we still follow the policy and just pray it will carry us through anyway.
perl4ever 8y ago
"In God We Trust" has only been the nation's motto since 1956 and appeared on paper money the following year[1]. The dollar is of course much older. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust
- Fnoord 8y ago
  Once you substitute god with good and devil with evil everything related to god and devil becomes a comical narrative.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    Tangent: interesting how "god" is "good" without an 'o', and "devil" is "evil" with an extra 'd'.
    - Fnoord 8y ago
      That was my very point, thank you for clarifying it. IIRC I came across it via Jan Irvin's The Pharmacratic Inquisition from 2007 [1] though I don't necessarily agree or endorse his work(s). I saw it being referred to here [2] as well. Perhaps its a matter of etymology. Wiktionary does not draw the link but I did find it an interesting read [3], and it did mention 'Good Friday'. [1] https://logosmedia.com/the-pharmacratic-inquisition/the-pharmacratic-inquisition-with-subtitles-translated/ https://logosmedia.com/the-pharmacratic-inquisition/the-phar... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_God_Challenge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_God_Challenge [3] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/good https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/good
kiba 8y ago
It's all about manufacturing shared realities. For example, a corporation doesn't really exist independently outside of human minds, but we often act as if it does.
- jpatokal 8y ago
  There's a major philosophical school of thought that holds nothing exists outside the mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism
- nineteen999 8y ago
  > For example, a corporation doesn't really exist independently outside of human minds, but we often act as if it does. Not only that, we go so far as to enshrine its rights in law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
- tim333 8y ago
  To be legally recognised it has to also exist as some paper or electronic records usually. For instance in the UK it has to be registered at companies house. If you Bob and Joe get together to do stuff and say 'lets call ourselves the Bob and Joe company' I think you'll find that legally speaking you are actually a partnership which can be iffy if Bob signs a lease in your joint names.
otabdeveloper1 8y ago
> I think most national currencies are based on religious-like beliefs and mass delusions to some extent. Lol, no. Four points: a) Money isn't value, money is a standard measuring yardstick for value. b) Since it's just a standard way to measure stuff, pretty much anything can be money. c) Modern fiat money like USD are IOU's from the government. They became a standard form of money because the government requires taxes to be nominated in these IOU's and because the government pays welfare and wages in them. d) Inflation is no big deal. It just means that your standard measuring yardstick becomes shorter over time. A logistical pain in the ass, but ultimately nothing that can't be dealt with.
- TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
  Money is about imbuing items - some of which may be intangible - with power and manna, and also about having an irrational faith that the power and manna will increase in the future. It's bean counting with imaginary magic beans, controlled by a priestly caste of imaginary magic bean rationers. Crypto was an attempt to create a different kind of imaginary magic bean controlled by a different kind of rationing.
  - otabdeveloper1 8y ago
    > Money is about imbuing items - some of which may be intangible - with power and manna People will imbue all sorts of things with power and manna. (Video game highscores, or clothes, or the food you eat, etc. , etc.) Money is not special here. > It's bean counting with imaginary magic beans, controlled by a priestly caste of imaginary magic bean rationers. No. Fiat money (like the USD) are just IOU scrips from the government. No more magical or priestly than the IOU's you might give to your neighbor. Fiat money IOU's are special only because you need them to pay taxes.
  - CPLX 8y ago
    The magic part about modern currency isn't the caste of the bean rationers. It's the number of guns they have. Money is valuable because the people with a monopoly on the legal use of violence say it's valuable. There are many of other things that are valuable because of their utility, like a sandwich, or some kind of agreed upon cultural intrinsic value, like gold, and many of those can be even used as a medium of exchange, but those things are not money.

Scoundreller 8y ago

But very few people are holding onto USD bills with the expectation that they'll go up in value, or suddenly have some new use.

IAmGraydon 8y ago
The foreign exchange market is the largest market on earth, and quite a lot of it is speculative, actually.

hudon 8y ago

Yes but that’s not really news. I think the article’s elucidation is that Cryptocurrency, like money, is comprised of humans and thus has all the same baggage (as opposed to being a non-human solution that avoids issues of trust or governance).

wallacoloo 8y ago

For USD, I think the commandments would be the invariants of the monetary policy, as opposed to the entire constitution: "inflation shall average 2%", "grow the money supply to prevent deflation", and "shrink the money supply to reduce inflation". The religious part is made apparent by it being so difficult to explain why 2008 didn't lead to significant inflation - whereas inflation appears a direct result if the reasoning of these policies is accurate - yet we still follow the policy and just pray it will carry us through anyway.

perl4ever 8y ago

"In God We Trust" has only been the nation's motto since 1956 and appeared on paper money the following year[1]. The dollar is of course much older. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

Fnoord 8y ago
Once you substitute god with good and devil with evil everything related to god and devil becomes a comical narrative.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Tangent: interesting how "god" is "good" without an 'o', and "devil" is "evil" with an extra 'd'.
  - Fnoord 8y ago
    That was my very point, thank you for clarifying it. IIRC I came across it via Jan Irvin's The Pharmacratic Inquisition from 2007 [1] though I don't necessarily agree or endorse his work(s). I saw it being referred to here [2] as well. Perhaps its a matter of etymology. Wiktionary does not draw the link but I did find it an interesting read [3], and it did mention 'Good Friday'. [1] https://logosmedia.com/the-pharmacratic-inquisition/the-pharmacratic-inquisition-with-subtitles-translated/ https://logosmedia.com/the-pharmacratic-inquisition/the-phar... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_God_Challenge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_God_Challenge [3] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/good https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/good

kiba 8y ago

It's all about manufacturing shared realities. For example, a corporation doesn't really exist independently outside of human minds, but we often act as if it does.

jpatokal 8y ago
There's a major philosophical school of thought that holds nothing exists outside the mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism
nineteen999 8y ago
> For example, a corporation doesn't really exist independently outside of human minds, but we often act as if it does. Not only that, we go so far as to enshrine its rights in law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
tim333 8y ago
To be legally recognised it has to also exist as some paper or electronic records usually. For instance in the UK it has to be registered at companies house. If you Bob and Joe get together to do stuff and say 'lets call ourselves the Bob and Joe company' I think you'll find that legally speaking you are actually a partnership which can be iffy if Bob signs a lease in your joint names.

otabdeveloper1 8y ago

> I think most national currencies are based on religious-like beliefs and mass delusions to some extent. Lol, no. Four points: a) Money isn't value, money is a standard measuring yardstick for value. b) Since it's just a standard way to measure stuff, pretty much anything can be money. c) Modern fiat money like USD are IOU's from the government. They became a standard form of money because the government requires taxes to be nominated in these IOU's and because the government pays welfare and wages in them. d) Inflation is no big deal. It just means that your standard measuring yardstick becomes shorter over time. A logistical pain in the ass, but ultimately nothing that can't be dealt with.

TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
Money is about imbuing items - some of which may be intangible - with power and manna, and also about having an irrational faith that the power and manna will increase in the future. It's bean counting with imaginary magic beans, controlled by a priestly caste of imaginary magic bean rationers. Crypto was an attempt to create a different kind of imaginary magic bean controlled by a different kind of rationing.
- otabdeveloper1 8y ago
  > Money is about imbuing items - some of which may be intangible - with power and manna People will imbue all sorts of things with power and manna. (Video game highscores, or clothes, or the food you eat, etc. , etc.) Money is not special here. > It's bean counting with imaginary magic beans, controlled by a priestly caste of imaginary magic bean rationers. No. Fiat money (like the USD) are just IOU scrips from the government. No more magical or priestly than the IOU's you might give to your neighbor. Fiat money IOU's are special only because you need them to pay taxes.
- CPLX 8y ago
  The magic part about modern currency isn't the caste of the bean rationers. It's the number of guns they have. Money is valuable because the people with a monopoly on the legal use of violence say it's valuable. There are many of other things that are valuable because of their utility, like a sandwich, or some kind of agreed upon cultural intrinsic value, like gold, and many of those can be even used as a medium of exchange, but those things are not money.