16 ms·

How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

148 points by gscott 8y ago

nineteen999 8y ago
Dear World, we're sorry - Australia (well SOME of us are)
peterburkimsher 8y ago
Hillsong music is simple, catchy, and easy to play. If a teenager can pick up a guitar and lead their friends to sing along with easy lyrics, it'll be a hit. A satirical take on this is How to Write a Worship Song (In 5 Minutes or Less). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYuA0Cz8ls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYuA0Cz8ls Translations of Hillsong music into other languages are also popular. 約書亞樂團 Joshuaband translate some songs into Chinese, and it was a huge help for me learning Mandarin. I also know about illegal translations of a lot more songs, in Chinese, Taiwanese, and Hungarian. It's illegal because CCLI doesn't operate in those countries, so there's no way to license the song translations officially. Email me if you want to know where to get the chords/PPT/OpenSong/sheet music/MP3s. For other languages, there's Hillsong Global Project for German, Spanish, French, Portuguese, Russian, Swedish, Korean, Indonesian, French, and Chinese.
- pluma 8y ago
  I always have to smile when I hear "Spirit in the Sky" used in a religious context as if it's a genuine worship song.
  - sjcsjc 8y ago
    Your comment reminds me of Johnny Cash covering Personal Jesus.
    - jacobush 8y ago
      Totally owning it.
    - pluma 8y ago
      Well, at least "Personal Jesus" kinda works in a gospel context if you read it as aspirational (think "WWJD"). "Spirit in the sky" on the other hand is New Age at best and cynical parody at worst -- the entire idea behind that song was "gospel songs seem easy to write, I bet I could do that". I guess it's the musical equivalent of Poe's law: it's over the top and a bit insencere but the medium it mimics is already so over the top it fits right in and nobody bats an eye.
- wbl 8y ago
  I am not a Christian, but I feel like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ffg4mU7FNE&t=2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ffg4mU7FNE&t=2s is far more divine sounding then someone with a guitar as in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io2WOQ-3aVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io2WOQ-3aVs . Sadly my faith tradition is stuck with Debbie Freedman.
  - explorigin 8y ago
    It's all about culture. If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. People that converted without a high-church context gravitate toward a more modern style of worship. The downside of so much hillsong influence is that it dominates a culture and drowns out other modern styles. I feel like all hillsong songs sound the same.
    - bartread 8y ago
      Tend to agree. Most Christian music sounds very samey to me and simply doesn't stir my soul. I realise this is a very personal perspective, but I find a lot of "secular" music better for worship: Hendrix, Led Zep, Guns 'N' Roses, Soundgarden, Hybrid, She, Pendulum, and of course plenty of orchestral and ensemble music from earlier eras. This stuff stirs my soul. I'm honestly not trying to be edgy here, and I'm well aware that this isn't going to be everyone's (or even the majority's) bag, and I'm definitely not suggesting that Christian music needs to change for my benefit (it really doesn't). That's all totally OK: it's just me saying that after 22 years of being a Christian I know who I am.
      - redbeard0x0a 8y ago
        > I'm honestly not trying to be edgy here, and I'm well aware that this isn't going to be everyone's (or even the majority's) bag We forget that people are extremely varied, there is room for everybody. An infinite God probably doesn't create only ~3 "right" ways of worshipping, living, serving, teaching, etc.
      - taborj 8y ago
- paulcarroty 8y ago
  > Hillsong music is simple, catchy, and easy to play I provided the example [above](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18283308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18283308) of popular non-(simple, catchy, and easy to play) tracks.
- netcan 8y ago
  Couple of points on this.. it's interesting how ideological context perculates (and reverse perculate) through a movement. (A) Catholic (an example, for contrast) music tends to be institutional: choirs, organs... Formal. You don't just play the organ for fun, it's a scheduled, authorized activity. It's not something that spreads or something that exists outside of its preallocated box. (B) Hillsong's kind of music is also accessible. You don't need much exposure to play or appreciate it. This isn't exotic tribal music, for and by some specific culture of people (think of Jewish kleizmer for example). It's pop, the stuff anyone can listen to or play. Ie, you can tell from the music that Hillsong is new/modern, youth oriented, and mainstream-oriented and international/multicultural. You can tell from catholic music that it's tradition and institution oriented. You can tell from Jewish music that it's tribally oriented. All ideological linchpins of those communities.
  - moftz 8y ago
    I knew someone that would play Catholic organ music for fun. She'd stream herself at the church she played at after hours. She wasn't Catholic or even Christian but she was good at it and got a gig playing it. She would play classical and her own compositions as well. She would also pull her boobs out and smoke meth on stream too. I think she ended up getting doxxed and kicked out of her parents house.
    - justtopost 8y ago
      Whoever she is, she has an honorary spot in my punk band. Anyone got a link, or am I about to go down a weird internet hole?
      - peterburkimsher 8y ago
        Punk with an organ? Link, please! I like the cultural crossovers that are made in all the sub-genres of rock (whether it's Christian rock, Mongolian throat singing metal, or Taiwanese post-punk). If it's got four chords, count me in.
  - dreix 8y ago
deleted 8y ago
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cnbarker 8y ago
Religion has always been good business.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  Isn't that a Ferengi Rule of Acquisition?
  - cholantesh 8y ago
    No, you're thinking of war. Or peace. The two rules are adjacent.
drewmol 8y ago
If you read anxiously through the whole article like I did thinking: "Yeah I get it but what are the numbers?" From 2015 article: "The Hillsong empire they founded (she, too, is a senior pastor) pulled in tax-free revenues of nearly $80 million in Australia last year and more than $100 million internationally." https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/inside-the-hillsong-churchs-moneymaking-machine-20151026-gkip53.html https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/inside-the-hillsong-churchs...
- pluma 8y ago
  Wait, tax-free? Surely this is a for-profit business, not a "church".
  - dwd 8y ago
    And their status is not likely to change while one of their flock is the Prime Minister.
    - chris_wot 8y ago
      This has being going on for far longer than Morrison was even in parliament.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - lgunsch 8y ago
      Why would they need to change their status just because they have a large revenue from being successful? Girl Scouts, a non-profit, bring in 700 million from selling their cookies. United Way Worldwide, another non-profit, has a revenue of 3.9 Billion.
      - 8y ago
rezeroed 8y ago
My sister's involved with Hillsong. A scam if ever I saw one. I no longer have anything to do with her.
- whatthesmack 8y ago
  Would you mind elaborating? I personally enjoy the music Hillsong puts out, but am always curious about the inner workings of an organization such as theirs.
  - parski 8y ago
    Yes, please elaborate.
    - jenebzix 8y ago
      Cult activities — they teach exclusion and isolation of their members against non-subscribers. Submission of financial independence of members, they must actually tithe of 10% their wage to the cult and this is actually audited by them; they hate the LGBT community (they are hateful anti-gay cult); tax free status, they make big dollars from victims and pay nothing toward society. Evil scum.
      - sctb 8y ago
        Would you care to please post civilly and substantively instead declaring others to be evil for declaring others to be evil? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - giancarlostoro 8y ago
    They share a bit of commonalities with IHOP. I think they might mean their "internship" program is a scam. Look into how IHOP is a cult / scams young people. Its a lot of fluff. My cousin too joined one of the internships but for her own reasons and thankfully she knew better so by the time she got out she just knew we were right about them, except she knew the whole enchilada. In the case of IHOP they have sexualized lyrics which they front as worship music by over emphasizing being the Bride of Christ. This leads sexually frustrated / confused (in a Christian viewpoint / sense) youths even more confused about Jesus and their relationship with Him. Its a lot to take all at once so research it and pray about it and take your time. I just personally avoid IHOP / Hillsong for multiple reasons. The other thing to remember is they are not all at fault some are just there genuinely or misled into being there.
socceroos 8y ago
As a conservative, I've never really paid any attention to Hillsong stuff. What I did hear of typical pentecostal music struck me as pretty shallow and.....commercial. Admittedly as an ignoramus, I do wonder how they get around tax exemption while they rake this all in. I know you can't brush everyone with the same stroke, but it feels reminiscent of those mega-pastors that fly around in their private jets to shake hands and take selfies with the poor - the message becomes a sideshow to the brand. It makes me uneasy - but, disclaimer, I don't really know on the pentecostal spectrum of commercialism where they lie.
- dwd 8y ago
  The Hillsong founders are actually worse where allegations of child abuse were covered up so as to not damage the brand... https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/23/hillsongs-brian-houston-failed-to-report-abuse-and-had-conflict-of-interest-royal-commission https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/23/hills...
- bartread 8y ago
  Uneasy is the word I'd use as well. And in saying this I have to be honest and admit that I can't point to anything specific that's wrong. Hillsong often get the plaudits (and the rap), but there are other similar movements. Worship Central and HTB here in the UK spring immediately to mind. I do go to these kinds of places from time to time and, whatever the organisation, you talk to the people involved: they're approachable and seem genuine, and they talk about empowering and benefitting the church and Christians at large, and I have no evidence to the contrary. All of which just leaves me feeling guilty about my discomfort, and maybe that's OK because maybe I'm wrong. On the flip-side everything is so shiny: everyone you see ministering is beautiful and/or handsome and, although the quality of the music and lyrics might be questionable, the production values are excruciatingly high, and you're surrounded by people - particularly at the front - who appear to be going out of their way to model this kind of aching hyperreal trendiness. Compare this with the composition of the average congregation (of any denomination) in the UK[1]. Even stepping past the issue of ageing congregations in many places, we're (and I mean no unkindness in saying this) a pretty miscellaneous bunch. In lots of churches you end up with all sorts having to get involved in making it work, not just those who are good-looking or loaded or "good people". There's space for everyone, and all can contribute, or at least that's what we aspire to - we believe in a God who calls the things who are not as though they are. Possibly that last observation is rose-tinted when compared with reality, and possibly unfair on Hillsong and its imitators. Still, the contrast between Hillsong-like and most other churches does feel jarring and leaves me with that lingering unease. Sorry: this ended up a lot longer than I expected. [1] Note that I deliberately haven't gone down the route of comparing with the lives and lifestyles of Jesus and the Apostles, not because I necessarily think the comparison is invalid, but because: one, for many people I think there's a lack of familiarity with the source material that may render the comparison meaningless to them, and, two, because the societal and cultural situations are radically different, which makes any such comparison much more complex.
RickJWagner 8y ago
Hillsong is influential, no doubt. But I bet in the long run, even more influential will be the music from 'Veggietales'. (Sort of like 'Schoolhouse Rock'. Very catchy, and popular with all ages.)
- protomyth 8y ago
  Had to replace the batteries in one of their books. I get the feeling it will not be a one off event. Catholic school gave one of the books to my niece.
- JshWright 8y ago
  The catchy Veggie Tales songs are the "Silly Songs" though. Such great classics as "Dance of the Cucumber"[1], "Monkey or Ape"[2], and "Song of the Cebu"[3]... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13DvXLdr_H4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13DvXLdr_H4 [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--szrOHtR6U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--szrOHtR6U [3]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uv8Ej4CEoQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uv8Ej4CEoQ
mikorym 8y ago
TLDR; I am disappointed that this headline is not satirical.
barrow-rider 8y ago
"You're not making Christianity better, you're just making rock and roll worse" -H. Hill. https://i.redd.it/5iqvu91yz0ly.jpg https://i.redd.it/5iqvu91yz0ly.jpg
- bartread 8y ago
  Amazing. How have I never seen that before? Made me laugh primarily because it resonates quite strongly for me (although I suspect not for everyone). There are Christian artists I've really enjoyed. Iona spring immediately to mind, although I haven't listened to them regularly in years, but the relevant points are: 1) Their lyrics tend to have more substance to them. 2) Even if the style isn't your cup of tea, there's some real and undeniable musicianship on display. Although way poppier, and with edgier lyrics, I'd probably put Switchfoot in the same category.
  - cvwright 8y ago
    > Switchfoot You would probably also appreciate Jon Foreman's (Switchfoot founder) solo work too.
    - bartread 8y ago
      Thanks: I'll definitely check it out.
- phd514 8y ago
  Hank Hill had another great set of lines at the end of that episode (S08E02, I believe) where he gets out a box of Bobby's old toys that he's lost interest in. Hank tells him that he doesn't want Jesus to become like one of those once-fashionable toys that quickly loses its appeal. I was quite surprised to find that much theological profundity in an episode of KoTH. Edit: Also the bit with the rocker's dad about the fifth commandment.
- exabrial 8y ago
  I laughed, but try playing the guitar solo in Drop-D from the track _Wonder_ for 10m while the preacher gets excited and leads an extended prayer :D Holy hand cramps batman
paulcarroty 8y ago
Huh, tobymac - 26M views https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeBv9r92VQ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeBv9r92VQ0 Skillet - 242M views https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjlM_RnsVE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjlM_RnsVE So, if aggresive/suicidal/depressive music is popular, why christian bands may be in underground?
paulcole 8y ago
Good interview with Carl Lentz on Bill Simmon’s podcast: https://www.theringer.com/2017/11/8/16623902/pastor-carl-lentz-on-locker-room-culture-secret-scrimmages-and-more https://www.theringer.com/2017/11/8/16623902/pastor-carl-len...
expathacker 8y ago
What relevance does this have to Hacker News?
- samontar 8y ago
  It’s a pretty clever business niche and a way to run tax-free. The end result is a cultural machine that may well have changed the nature of Christian worship. Interesting, no?
  - expathacker 8y ago
    Sure I guess. tl;dr: Christian organization scams tax payers, recent conservative trends on Hacker News somehow makes this interesting?
    - samontar 8y ago
      Is it really a scam if it’s what taxpayers want? I don’t think this is interesting because any conservative trend. It’s a cool business hack that allows you to make money without taxes.
      - expathacker 8y ago
        I would argue that all religious tax-dodges are scams if you're an atheist. My businesses and lack of faith don't get a free-ride, but I have to subsidize that of somebody else's? By this logic, it's a cool business hack to run a megachurch and buy your own 737 without paying taxes, not a scam?
        samontar 8y ago
        Well, it most certainly is, isn’t it? You get an additional double digit percentage. That’s going to help your margins. They aren’t scammers, though, because most people want this. Of course it is unfair to you, but most countries have their laws originate in their dominant religious culture and consequently favour that culture. For instance, the San Francisco MTA legalized parking along the median on the street for church services. It’s just the way that people want it to be, and in democracies, they will inevitably get their way so it’s best to take advantage of the laws they make. Being upset is less profitable than playing the game.
netcan 8y ago
I went to a few Hillsong events about 10 years ago, when the church was becoming very obvious cultural influence Australia-wide. There is a lot that's very entrepreneurial about this church. They also started Gloria Jean's, a big, international Starbucks competitor. Like the music stuff, this had to do with youth culture and creating social aspects to the movement. In Australia a lot of people called the denomination "charismatic churches" which is largely overlapping with "evangelical" in the states, where it comes from. The larger family of denominations has been growing and internationalising at a serious pace. In any case, when it comes to religion, opinions are.. sensitive. But, I think the recent history of this religion is worth learning about, for those interested, just because they've been "making things happen". Religions are pretty diverse structurally, from one another. Hillsong and related movements (mostly descendants of American evangelical denominations) tend to be quite decentralised. The Church (institution) and the church (building/parish) are almost the same thing. They don't have a traditional, top-heavy hierarchy (bishops, cardinals) and they don't have a traditional local parochial structure.
- thrmsforbfast 8y ago
  > just because they've been "making things happen". Actually, my biggest fear about Christianity in the USA today is that it's NOT "making things happen" Or, perhaps more accurately, the things that it's making happen are businesses. The mainline congregations and Catholics of the 19th and early-mid 20th centuries made serious contributions to: 1. Education. In addition to the obvious middle and high schools, they started colleges and universities. There are literally hundreds of catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, etc. colleges dotting rural America. There are also many more that have since shaken the affiliation but were originally started as schools for pastors and teachers. These christian educational institutions touched more than just the churches; e.g., Fred Rogers was educated at a college founded by Congregationalists and a seminary founded by Presbyterians. 2. Pastoral training/care. Aside from the above-mentioned colleges and universities, these congregations also started/supported seminaries and -- perhaps more importantly -- insisted on well-trained pastoral leadership that understood the church's teachings. 3. Congregational care. This included everything from helping out a sick congregant, to gardening, to helping keep the church building in working condition. 4. Community care. Everything from running food pantries to setting up and staffing health clinics, and sometimes even entire hospitals. Many modern christian churches aren't much more than tax-free concert venues with a self-help workshop on the side run by charismatic communications majors. They'll take the parsonage exemption, but don't seriously engage in any of the traditional Christian charity work: education, healthcare, caring for the homeless and elderly, or even teaching the gospel. Even the congregation's own members seem to have become not much more than leads for related businesses; e.g., the charismatic church a family friend attends runs a (very profitable) counseling center and refers its members there for basically every problem mentioned to a pastor or other staff member. Not a casserole in sight when she threw out her back, though. Which I suppose is reasonable. After all, running a lead-generating combination concert/lecture venue is already a full-time job.
rawTruthHurts 8y ago
Off topic: isn't this an overly inflated clickbaity editorialised headline?
- rhizome 8y ago
  It's not remotely about "conquering" anything except their music's lack of popularity.
jenebzix 8y ago
Disgusting money grubbing cult. Not actually Christian, but a scam to separate money from fools. Has ATMs in the lobby. Ya know — Jesus kicked the money lenders out of the temple. You would think they would follow his example. Get this trash off HN.
buildbuildbuild 8y ago
Hillsong NYC volunteer software engineer here. We’re passionate about using our skills to serve the local community in addition to our church. Shoot me an email if you’re in the area and would like to chat about helping local nonprofits with code. e at emersonhall dot com
- jenebzix 8y ago
  Your church is also passionate about alienating its members from non-believers, and oppressing LGBT folk. All while ignoring the actual message of your deity. Keep you help to yourself buddy.
  - chandrew 8y ago
    Well, that escalated quickly.
  - DanWaterworth 8y ago
    You obviously have reasons to be angry, but vitriolic comments don't produce constructive discourse.
  - maerF0x0 8y ago
    Sources to what you're speaking of (especially ones pointing at Hillsong) would be useful to improve this discourse.
- Multicomp 8y ago
  What kind of technology stack(s) do you guys use?
  - victorhooi 8y ago
    Would love to know this as well =).
packetslave 8y ago
The other 900lb gorilla in the contemporary Christian music world today is Bethel Church, in Redding CA. They've put out as much if not more of than Hillsong in terms of the music played in contemporary churches these days. Too bad their great music hides some "interesting" theology, IMHO.
- jonshariat 8y ago
  Yes, Jesus Culture is the other big player in the space.
  - peterburkimsher 8y ago
    There's also IHOP, Passion 268Generation (Chris Tomlin, Matt Redman, David Crowder Band), and Worship Central from the UK (Tim Hughes, Ben Cantelon).
    - packetslave 8y ago
      oh, Passion is a good one. I don't normally associate Tomlin, etc. with them because they're all such huge solo artists these days (vs. someone like Kristian Stanfill). Chris Tomlin is especially big in terms of writing songs that modern churches play. There's a reason we called it "Good Good Grief, We're Playing This Again?" on my worship team :-)
armandososa 8y ago
I've been playing in worship groups for +20 years now and I'm currently leading the youth band in a very small church and here are two things that I've been noting recently: Hillsong's music and most "mainstream" music that come from white english-spoken megachurches have lyrics that talk about "grace","love" and "God accepting you as you are". While the themes on worship music coming from South America (and I think black churches in US too) are more about "Joy", "Freedom" and "God, the mighty warrior defeating his enemies and delivering his people". I found that really interesting. The other thing is that even while Hillsong's and similar music is very shallow and simplistic, it is becoming increasingly difficult to perform with simple, cheap instruments. So small and poor bands like ours lose appeal against the ones in megachurches with lots of instruments, talent-pool and technology. I, for one, I'm embracing this and going for a rock-punk attitude for my little worship band.
- thrmsforbfast 8y ago
  The difference in emphasis you noticed (grace, love, and acceptance vs. joy, freedom, and deliverance) has deep historical roots that go back much further than colonial history. As an exercise, even the apostles -- and the prophets before them -- can be read in terms of which side of this dichotomy they preferred in their rhetoric. If you read the bible every year and choose a list of themes/topics to focus on, this is an interesting one. Another really interesting fact: this difference in style correlates much better with demographics than with doctrine/dogma/congregation. There was a dissertation or maybe book about this, but I can't seem to find it at the moment.
  - akoshodi 8y ago
    The Book "Misreading Scripture with Western Eyes" reveals how cultural biases influence how we interpret/misinterpret the Bible. One of the examples given was the difference between our (western) individualistic culture and the collectivist culture which the Bible was written.
- Twirrim 8y ago
  There's another interesting language difference to look at, both within the history of Western worship, and in various countries. Western worship has become heavily "I/Me" based, where historically it was more "Us/We" based. To the point it's starting to drive me crazy. Worship is becoming almost entirely selfish. A group of individuals having an individual experience, instead of a group of people having a collective, binding, experience with God.
bbrodriguez 8y ago
While not directly rated to Hillsong, there's an interesting series of episodes from Gimlet Media's StartUp podcast called Church Planting that dives down to reveal more day to day operations on how church plants that start small like Hillsong grow into bigger churches. Lot of the aspects of pitching to established investor churches, growth hacking, etc. have a lot more in common to a startup company than a church and pastors more like founders. Church plants that can adapt have a more successful growth. I think it provides an interesting perspective into how "successful" churches like Hillsong that started by meeting in a high school end up turning into megachurches across 6 continents.
nickelcitymario 8y ago
I just wanna say, I clicked through to the comments expecting this to be a diatribe against christians and christianity, and I am thoroughly pleased to see that's not the case. As a (struggling with faith) christian, I tend to think my fellow tech heads will mock me if it comes up. And yet this post has been really respectful, largely just debating the merits of the article rather than as an opportunity to attack. Kudos, hackers, for proving civility still exists. I'm tickled pink.
- Danielalonso91 8y ago
  Dude, I totally second your comment. That's the very first thing I thought as I initially scrolled through the comments. I tip my hat, both to Christians for not being scared to express their beliefs, and to non-Christians for showing respect.
- dmix 8y ago
  This isn't Reddit, that's for sure...
p0d 8y ago
I’ve been playing bass in churches for 30 years. I really enjoy listening to Hillsong’s music and playing it. In the 80s we had lively songs and pensive songs. I enjoy the modern style of quiet songs which become epic anthems.
Danielalonso91 8y ago
I'm having a hard time absorbing and getting through all the high-quality insights and contributions. There's no doubt that there are a lot of very intelligent people here. Very happy to be a part of this community.
zygotic12 8y ago
Sorry but where are my downvote buttons?
- JshWright 8y ago
  Your account had very low karma. There is a minimum threshold of karma required in order to down vote (in order to encourage participation in the conversation, rather than just downvoting topics you don't like).
  - zygotic12 8y ago
    Sorry yes understood thanks.
- zygotic12 8y ago
  I didn't say I was going to use them downvoters!!! But if I'm going to hell anyway I do think 'Conquered the music industry' to be a wee bit strong, no?
dmlab 8y ago
Outside the church, this Guy Sebastian type music doesn't cut the mustard. Speaking as an Australian - most of us find Hillsong vaguely threatening. It's a Sydney thing really. I sound negative but in reality, good on the church for enjoying their own music.

148 points by gscott 8y ago

Dear World, we're sorry - Australia (well SOME of us are)

Hillsong music is simple, catchy, and easy to play. If a teenager can pick up a guitar and lead their friends to sing along with easy lyrics, it'll be a hit. A satirical take on this is How to Write a Worship Song (In 5 Minutes or Less). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYuA0Cz8ls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYuA0Cz8ls Translations of Hillsong music into other languages are also popular. 約書亞樂團 Joshuaband translate some songs into Chinese, and it was a huge help for me learning Mandarin. I also know about illegal translations of a lot more songs, in Chinese, Taiwanese, and Hungarian. It's illegal because CCLI doesn't operate in those countries, so there's no way to license the song translations officially. Email me if you want to know where to get the chords/PPT/OpenSong/sheet music/MP3s. For other languages, there's Hillsong Global Project for German, Spanish, French, Portuguese, Russian, Swedish, Korean, Indonesian, French, and Chinese.

pluma 8y ago
I always have to smile when I hear "Spirit in the Sky" used in a religious context as if it's a genuine worship song.
- sjcsjc 8y ago
  Your comment reminds me of Johnny Cash covering Personal Jesus.
  - jacobush 8y ago
    Totally owning it.
  - pluma 8y ago
    Well, at least "Personal Jesus" kinda works in a gospel context if you read it as aspirational (think "WWJD"). "Spirit in the sky" on the other hand is New Age at best and cynical parody at worst -- the entire idea behind that song was "gospel songs seem easy to write, I bet I could do that". I guess it's the musical equivalent of Poe's law: it's over the top and a bit insencere but the medium it mimics is already so over the top it fits right in and nobody bats an eye.
wbl 8y ago
I am not a Christian, but I feel like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ffg4mU7FNE&t=2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ffg4mU7FNE&t=2s is far more divine sounding then someone with a guitar as in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io2WOQ-3aVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io2WOQ-3aVs . Sadly my faith tradition is stuck with Debbie Freedman.
- explorigin 8y ago
  It's all about culture. If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. People that converted without a high-church context gravitate toward a more modern style of worship. The downside of so much hillsong influence is that it dominates a culture and drowns out other modern styles. I feel like all hillsong songs sound the same.
  - bartread 8y ago
    Tend to agree. Most Christian music sounds very samey to me and simply doesn't stir my soul. I realise this is a very personal perspective, but I find a lot of "secular" music better for worship: Hendrix, Led Zep, Guns 'N' Roses, Soundgarden, Hybrid, She, Pendulum, and of course plenty of orchestral and ensemble music from earlier eras. This stuff stirs my soul. I'm honestly not trying to be edgy here, and I'm well aware that this isn't going to be everyone's (or even the majority's) bag, and I'm definitely not suggesting that Christian music needs to change for my benefit (it really doesn't). That's all totally OK: it's just me saying that after 22 years of being a Christian I know who I am.
    - redbeard0x0a 8y ago
      > I'm honestly not trying to be edgy here, and I'm well aware that this isn't going to be everyone's (or even the majority's) bag We forget that people are extremely varied, there is room for everybody. An infinite God probably doesn't create only ~3 "right" ways of worshipping, living, serving, teaching, etc.
    - taborj 8y ago
paulcarroty 8y ago
> Hillsong music is simple, catchy, and easy to play I provided the example [above](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18283308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18283308) of popular non-(simple, catchy, and easy to play) tracks.
netcan 8y ago
Couple of points on this.. it's interesting how ideological context perculates (and reverse perculate) through a movement. (A) Catholic (an example, for contrast) music tends to be institutional: choirs, organs... Formal. You don't just play the organ for fun, it's a scheduled, authorized activity. It's not something that spreads or something that exists outside of its preallocated box. (B) Hillsong's kind of music is also accessible. You don't need much exposure to play or appreciate it. This isn't exotic tribal music, for and by some specific culture of people (think of Jewish kleizmer for example). It's pop, the stuff anyone can listen to or play. Ie, you can tell from the music that Hillsong is new/modern, youth oriented, and mainstream-oriented and international/multicultural. You can tell from catholic music that it's tradition and institution oriented. You can tell from Jewish music that it's tribally oriented. All ideological linchpins of those communities.
- moftz 8y ago
  I knew someone that would play Catholic organ music for fun. She'd stream herself at the church she played at after hours. She wasn't Catholic or even Christian but she was good at it and got a gig playing it. She would play classical and her own compositions as well. She would also pull her boobs out and smoke meth on stream too. I think she ended up getting doxxed and kicked out of her parents house.
  - justtopost 8y ago
    Whoever she is, she has an honorary spot in my punk band. Anyone got a link, or am I about to go down a weird internet hole?
    - peterburkimsher 8y ago
      Punk with an organ? Link, please! I like the cultural crossovers that are made in all the sub-genres of rock (whether it's Christian rock, Mongolian throat singing metal, or Taiwanese post-punk). If it's got four chords, count me in.
- dreix 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

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cnbarker 8y ago

Religion has always been good business.

stephengillie 8y ago
Isn't that a Ferengi Rule of Acquisition?
- cholantesh 8y ago
  No, you're thinking of war. Or peace. The two rules are adjacent.

drewmol 8y ago

If you read anxiously through the whole article like I did thinking: "Yeah I get it but what are the numbers?" From 2015 article: "The Hillsong empire they founded (she, too, is a senior pastor) pulled in tax-free revenues of nearly $80 million in Australia last year and more than $100 million internationally." https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/inside-the-hillsong-churchs-moneymaking-machine-20151026-gkip53.html https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/inside-the-hillsong-churchs...

pluma 8y ago
Wait, tax-free? Surely this is a for-profit business, not a "church".
- dwd 8y ago
  And their status is not likely to change while one of their flock is the Prime Minister.
  - chris_wot 8y ago
    This has being going on for far longer than Morrison was even in parliament.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - lgunsch 8y ago
    Why would they need to change their status just because they have a large revenue from being successful? Girl Scouts, a non-profit, bring in 700 million from selling their cookies. United Way Worldwide, another non-profit, has a revenue of 3.9 Billion.
    - 8y ago

rezeroed 8y ago

My sister's involved with Hillsong. A scam if ever I saw one. I no longer have anything to do with her.

whatthesmack 8y ago
Would you mind elaborating? I personally enjoy the music Hillsong puts out, but am always curious about the inner workings of an organization such as theirs.
- parski 8y ago
  Yes, please elaborate.
  - jenebzix 8y ago
    Cult activities — they teach exclusion and isolation of their members against non-subscribers. Submission of financial independence of members, they must actually tithe of 10% their wage to the cult and this is actually audited by them; they hate the LGBT community (they are hateful anti-gay cult); tax free status, they make big dollars from victims and pay nothing toward society. Evil scum.
    - sctb 8y ago
      Would you care to please post civilly and substantively instead declaring others to be evil for declaring others to be evil? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  They share a bit of commonalities with IHOP. I think they might mean their "internship" program is a scam. Look into how IHOP is a cult / scams young people. Its a lot of fluff. My cousin too joined one of the internships but for her own reasons and thankfully she knew better so by the time she got out she just knew we were right about them, except she knew the whole enchilada. In the case of IHOP they have sexualized lyrics which they front as worship music by over emphasizing being the Bride of Christ. This leads sexually frustrated / confused (in a Christian viewpoint / sense) youths even more confused about Jesus and their relationship with Him. Its a lot to take all at once so research it and pray about it and take your time. I just personally avoid IHOP / Hillsong for multiple reasons. The other thing to remember is they are not all at fault some are just there genuinely or misled into being there.

socceroos 8y ago

As a conservative, I've never really paid any attention to Hillsong stuff. What I did hear of typical pentecostal music struck me as pretty shallow and.....commercial. Admittedly as an ignoramus, I do wonder how they get around tax exemption while they rake this all in. I know you can't brush everyone with the same stroke, but it feels reminiscent of those mega-pastors that fly around in their private jets to shake hands and take selfies with the poor - the message becomes a sideshow to the brand. It makes me uneasy - but, disclaimer, I don't really know on the pentecostal spectrum of commercialism where they lie.

dwd 8y ago
The Hillsong founders are actually worse where allegations of child abuse were covered up so as to not damage the brand... https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/23/hillsongs-brian-houston-failed-to-report-abuse-and-had-conflict-of-interest-royal-commission https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/23/hills...
bartread 8y ago
Uneasy is the word I'd use as well. And in saying this I have to be honest and admit that I can't point to anything specific that's wrong. Hillsong often get the plaudits (and the rap), but there are other similar movements. Worship Central and HTB here in the UK spring immediately to mind. I do go to these kinds of places from time to time and, whatever the organisation, you talk to the people involved: they're approachable and seem genuine, and they talk about empowering and benefitting the church and Christians at large, and I have no evidence to the contrary. All of which just leaves me feeling guilty about my discomfort, and maybe that's OK because maybe I'm wrong. On the flip-side everything is so shiny: everyone you see ministering is beautiful and/or handsome and, although the quality of the music and lyrics might be questionable, the production values are excruciatingly high, and you're surrounded by people - particularly at the front - who appear to be going out of their way to model this kind of aching hyperreal trendiness. Compare this with the composition of the average congregation (of any denomination) in the UK[1]. Even stepping past the issue of ageing congregations in many places, we're (and I mean no unkindness in saying this) a pretty miscellaneous bunch. In lots of churches you end up with all sorts having to get involved in making it work, not just those who are good-looking or loaded or "good people". There's space for everyone, and all can contribute, or at least that's what we aspire to - we believe in a God who calls the things who are not as though they are. Possibly that last observation is rose-tinted when compared with reality, and possibly unfair on Hillsong and its imitators. Still, the contrast between Hillsong-like and most other churches does feel jarring and leaves me with that lingering unease. Sorry: this ended up a lot longer than I expected. [1] Note that I deliberately haven't gone down the route of comparing with the lives and lifestyles of Jesus and the Apostles, not because I necessarily think the comparison is invalid, but because: one, for many people I think there's a lack of familiarity with the source material that may render the comparison meaningless to them, and, two, because the societal and cultural situations are radically different, which makes any such comparison much more complex.

RickJWagner 8y ago

Hillsong is influential, no doubt. But I bet in the long run, even more influential will be the music from 'Veggietales'. (Sort of like 'Schoolhouse Rock'. Very catchy, and popular with all ages.)

protomyth 8y ago
Had to replace the batteries in one of their books. I get the feeling it will not be a one off event. Catholic school gave one of the books to my niece.
JshWright 8y ago
The catchy Veggie Tales songs are the "Silly Songs" though. Such great classics as "Dance of the Cucumber"[1], "Monkey or Ape"[2], and "Song of the Cebu"[3]... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13DvXLdr_H4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13DvXLdr_H4 [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--szrOHtR6U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--szrOHtR6U [3]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uv8Ej4CEoQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uv8Ej4CEoQ

mikorym 8y ago

TLDR; I am disappointed that this headline is not satirical.

barrow-rider 8y ago

"You're not making Christianity better, you're just making rock and roll worse" -H. Hill. https://i.redd.it/5iqvu91yz0ly.jpg https://i.redd.it/5iqvu91yz0ly.jpg

bartread 8y ago
Amazing. How have I never seen that before? Made me laugh primarily because it resonates quite strongly for me (although I suspect not for everyone). There are Christian artists I've really enjoyed. Iona spring immediately to mind, although I haven't listened to them regularly in years, but the relevant points are: 1) Their lyrics tend to have more substance to them. 2) Even if the style isn't your cup of tea, there's some real and undeniable musicianship on display. Although way poppier, and with edgier lyrics, I'd probably put Switchfoot in the same category.
- cvwright 8y ago
  > Switchfoot You would probably also appreciate Jon Foreman's (Switchfoot founder) solo work too.
  - bartread 8y ago
    Thanks: I'll definitely check it out.
phd514 8y ago
Hank Hill had another great set of lines at the end of that episode (S08E02, I believe) where he gets out a box of Bobby's old toys that he's lost interest in. Hank tells him that he doesn't want Jesus to become like one of those once-fashionable toys that quickly loses its appeal. I was quite surprised to find that much theological profundity in an episode of KoTH. Edit: Also the bit with the rocker's dad about the fifth commandment.
exabrial 8y ago
I laughed, but try playing the guitar solo in Drop-D from the track _Wonder_ for 10m while the preacher gets excited and leads an extended prayer :D Holy hand cramps batman

paulcarroty 8y ago

Huh, tobymac - 26M views https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeBv9r92VQ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeBv9r92VQ0 Skillet - 242M views https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjlM_RnsVE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjlM_RnsVE So, if aggresive/suicidal/depressive music is popular, why christian bands may be in underground?

paulcole 8y ago

Good interview with Carl Lentz on Bill Simmon’s podcast: https://www.theringer.com/2017/11/8/16623902/pastor-carl-lentz-on-locker-room-culture-secret-scrimmages-and-more https://www.theringer.com/2017/11/8/16623902/pastor-carl-len...

expathacker 8y ago

What relevance does this have to Hacker News?

samontar 8y ago
It’s a pretty clever business niche and a way to run tax-free. The end result is a cultural machine that may well have changed the nature of Christian worship. Interesting, no?
- expathacker 8y ago
  Sure I guess. tl;dr: Christian organization scams tax payers, recent conservative trends on Hacker News somehow makes this interesting?
  - samontar 8y ago
    Is it really a scam if it’s what taxpayers want? I don’t think this is interesting because any conservative trend. It’s a cool business hack that allows you to make money without taxes.
    - expathacker 8y ago
      I would argue that all religious tax-dodges are scams if you're an atheist. My businesses and lack of faith don't get a free-ride, but I have to subsidize that of somebody else's? By this logic, it's a cool business hack to run a megachurch and buy your own 737 without paying taxes, not a scam?
      - samontar 8y ago
        Well, it most certainly is, isn’t it? You get an additional double digit percentage. That’s going to help your margins. They aren’t scammers, though, because most people want this. Of course it is unfair to you, but most countries have their laws originate in their dominant religious culture and consequently favour that culture. For instance, the San Francisco MTA legalized parking along the median on the street for church services. It’s just the way that people want it to be, and in democracies, they will inevitably get their way so it’s best to take advantage of the laws they make. Being upset is less profitable than playing the game.

netcan 8y ago

I went to a few Hillsong events about 10 years ago, when the church was becoming very obvious cultural influence Australia-wide. There is a lot that's very entrepreneurial about this church. They also started Gloria Jean's, a big, international Starbucks competitor. Like the music stuff, this had to do with youth culture and creating social aspects to the movement. In Australia a lot of people called the denomination "charismatic churches" which is largely overlapping with "evangelical" in the states, where it comes from. The larger family of denominations has been growing and internationalising at a serious pace. In any case, when it comes to religion, opinions are.. sensitive. But, I think the recent history of this religion is worth learning about, for those interested, just because they've been "making things happen". Religions are pretty diverse structurally, from one another. Hillsong and related movements (mostly descendants of American evangelical denominations) tend to be quite decentralised. The Church (institution) and the church (building/parish) are almost the same thing. They don't have a traditional, top-heavy hierarchy (bishops, cardinals) and they don't have a traditional local parochial structure.

thrmsforbfast 8y ago
> just because they've been "making things happen". Actually, my biggest fear about Christianity in the USA today is that it's NOT "making things happen" Or, perhaps more accurately, the things that it's making happen are businesses. The mainline congregations and Catholics of the 19th and early-mid 20th centuries made serious contributions to: 1. Education. In addition to the obvious middle and high schools, they started colleges and universities. There are literally hundreds of catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, etc. colleges dotting rural America. There are also many more that have since shaken the affiliation but were originally started as schools for pastors and teachers. These christian educational institutions touched more than just the churches; e.g., Fred Rogers was educated at a college founded by Congregationalists and a seminary founded by Presbyterians. 2. Pastoral training/care. Aside from the above-mentioned colleges and universities, these congregations also started/supported seminaries and -- perhaps more importantly -- insisted on well-trained pastoral leadership that understood the church's teachings. 3. Congregational care. This included everything from helping out a sick congregant, to gardening, to helping keep the church building in working condition. 4. Community care. Everything from running food pantries to setting up and staffing health clinics, and sometimes even entire hospitals. Many modern christian churches aren't much more than tax-free concert venues with a self-help workshop on the side run by charismatic communications majors. They'll take the parsonage exemption, but don't seriously engage in any of the traditional Christian charity work: education, healthcare, caring for the homeless and elderly, or even teaching the gospel. Even the congregation's own members seem to have become not much more than leads for related businesses; e.g., the charismatic church a family friend attends runs a (very profitable) counseling center and refers its members there for basically every problem mentioned to a pastor or other staff member. Not a casserole in sight when she threw out her back, though. Which I suppose is reasonable. After all, running a lead-generating combination concert/lecture venue is already a full-time job.

rawTruthHurts 8y ago

Off topic: isn't this an overly inflated clickbaity editorialised headline?

rhizome 8y ago
It's not remotely about "conquering" anything except their music's lack of popularity.

jenebzix 8y ago

Disgusting money grubbing cult. Not actually Christian, but a scam to separate money from fools. Has ATMs in the lobby. Ya know — Jesus kicked the money lenders out of the temple. You would think they would follow his example. Get this trash off HN.

buildbuildbuild 8y ago

Hillsong NYC volunteer software engineer here. We’re passionate about using our skills to serve the local community in addition to our church. Shoot me an email if you’re in the area and would like to chat about helping local nonprofits with code. e at emersonhall dot com

jenebzix 8y ago
Your church is also passionate about alienating its members from non-believers, and oppressing LGBT folk. All while ignoring the actual message of your deity. Keep you help to yourself buddy.
- chandrew 8y ago
  Well, that escalated quickly.
- DanWaterworth 8y ago
  You obviously have reasons to be angry, but vitriolic comments don't produce constructive discourse.
- maerF0x0 8y ago
  Sources to what you're speaking of (especially ones pointing at Hillsong) would be useful to improve this discourse.
Multicomp 8y ago
What kind of technology stack(s) do you guys use?
- victorhooi 8y ago
  Would love to know this as well =).

packetslave 8y ago

The other 900lb gorilla in the contemporary Christian music world today is Bethel Church, in Redding CA. They've put out as much if not more of than Hillsong in terms of the music played in contemporary churches these days. Too bad their great music hides some "interesting" theology, IMHO.

jonshariat 8y ago
Yes, Jesus Culture is the other big player in the space.
- peterburkimsher 8y ago
  There's also IHOP, Passion 268Generation (Chris Tomlin, Matt Redman, David Crowder Band), and Worship Central from the UK (Tim Hughes, Ben Cantelon).
  - packetslave 8y ago
    oh, Passion is a good one. I don't normally associate Tomlin, etc. with them because they're all such huge solo artists these days (vs. someone like Kristian Stanfill). Chris Tomlin is especially big in terms of writing songs that modern churches play. There's a reason we called it "Good Good Grief, We're Playing This Again?" on my worship team :-)

armandososa 8y ago

I've been playing in worship groups for +20 years now and I'm currently leading the youth band in a very small church and here are two things that I've been noting recently: Hillsong's music and most "mainstream" music that come from white english-spoken megachurches have lyrics that talk about "grace","love" and "God accepting you as you are". While the themes on worship music coming from South America (and I think black churches in US too) are more about "Joy", "Freedom" and "God, the mighty warrior defeating his enemies and delivering his people". I found that really interesting. The other thing is that even while Hillsong's and similar music is very shallow and simplistic, it is becoming increasingly difficult to perform with simple, cheap instruments. So small and poor bands like ours lose appeal against the ones in megachurches with lots of instruments, talent-pool and technology. I, for one, I'm embracing this and going for a rock-punk attitude for my little worship band.

thrmsforbfast 8y ago
The difference in emphasis you noticed (grace, love, and acceptance vs. joy, freedom, and deliverance) has deep historical roots that go back much further than colonial history. As an exercise, even the apostles -- and the prophets before them -- can be read in terms of which side of this dichotomy they preferred in their rhetoric. If you read the bible every year and choose a list of themes/topics to focus on, this is an interesting one. Another really interesting fact: this difference in style correlates much better with demographics than with doctrine/dogma/congregation. There was a dissertation or maybe book about this, but I can't seem to find it at the moment.
- akoshodi 8y ago
  The Book "Misreading Scripture with Western Eyes" reveals how cultural biases influence how we interpret/misinterpret the Bible. One of the examples given was the difference between our (western) individualistic culture and the collectivist culture which the Bible was written.
Twirrim 8y ago
There's another interesting language difference to look at, both within the history of Western worship, and in various countries. Western worship has become heavily "I/Me" based, where historically it was more "Us/We" based. To the point it's starting to drive me crazy. Worship is becoming almost entirely selfish. A group of individuals having an individual experience, instead of a group of people having a collective, binding, experience with God.

bbrodriguez 8y ago

While not directly rated to Hillsong, there's an interesting series of episodes from Gimlet Media's StartUp podcast called Church Planting that dives down to reveal more day to day operations on how church plants that start small like Hillsong grow into bigger churches. Lot of the aspects of pitching to established investor churches, growth hacking, etc. have a lot more in common to a startup company than a church and pastors more like founders. Church plants that can adapt have a more successful growth. I think it provides an interesting perspective into how "successful" churches like Hillsong that started by meeting in a high school end up turning into megachurches across 6 continents.

nickelcitymario 8y ago

I just wanna say, I clicked through to the comments expecting this to be a diatribe against christians and christianity, and I am thoroughly pleased to see that's not the case. As a (struggling with faith) christian, I tend to think my fellow tech heads will mock me if it comes up. And yet this post has been really respectful, largely just debating the merits of the article rather than as an opportunity to attack. Kudos, hackers, for proving civility still exists. I'm tickled pink.

Danielalonso91 8y ago
Dude, I totally second your comment. That's the very first thing I thought as I initially scrolled through the comments. I tip my hat, both to Christians for not being scared to express their beliefs, and to non-Christians for showing respect.
dmix 8y ago
This isn't Reddit, that's for sure...

p0d 8y ago

I’ve been playing bass in churches for 30 years. I really enjoy listening to Hillsong’s music and playing it. In the 80s we had lively songs and pensive songs. I enjoy the modern style of quiet songs which become epic anthems.

Danielalonso91 8y ago

I'm having a hard time absorbing and getting through all the high-quality insights and contributions. There's no doubt that there are a lot of very intelligent people here. Very happy to be a part of this community.

zygotic12 8y ago

Sorry but where are my downvote buttons?

JshWright 8y ago
Your account had very low karma. There is a minimum threshold of karma required in order to down vote (in order to encourage participation in the conversation, rather than just downvoting topics you don't like).
- zygotic12 8y ago
  Sorry yes understood thanks.
zygotic12 8y ago
I didn't say I was going to use them downvoters!!! But if I'm going to hell anyway I do think 'Conquered the music industry' to be a wee bit strong, no?

dmlab 8y ago

Outside the church, this Guy Sebastian type music doesn't cut the mustard. Speaking as an Australian - most of us find Hillsong vaguely threatening. It's a Sydney thing really. I sound negative but in reality, good on the church for enjoying their own music.