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The tweet from the article is correct: "blockchain" is only popular because Bitcoin is an extremely profitable pyramid scheme / money laundering service. There

The tweet from the article is correct: "blockchain" is only popular because Bitcoin is an extremely profitable pyramid scheme / money laundering service. There are no use cases that aren't (already) better served by existing technology. We have: - databases - distributed databases - distributed hash tables - cryptographic signing - authentication I've heard all kinds of ideas that are just bad. Verifiable check in systems (use an app and a database), services were actually delivered (scan a barcode and use a database) supply chain tracking (scan a barcode and use a database). Do you need Sybil resistance from proof of work because your consensus system is public and trustless? Cool Bitcoin is your jam. Just try to avoid building an unusable currency this go around, although I can't imagine a single additional use for it, and to date no one else can either. Oh and also try and avoid broiling our planet with your energy use. Earth backup system is not yet online.

lawn 8y ago
> There are no use cases that aren't (already) better served by existing technology. Repeating for the N:th time on HN. * Porn * Donations to wikileaks * Pot * Sending money to Venezuela * Leaving Venezuela with your wealth intact * Payments without giving all transaction info third parties (PayPal, VISA, etc) * Digital payments for the unbanked These are all served better by cryptocurrencies than other alternatives. A common counterargument is fees are very high on Bitcoin. This is true but it's only an argument against Bitcoin not cryptocurrencies in general. See Bitcoin Cash for example.
- tim333 8y ago
  Not sure about digital payments for the unbanked. Are there any real cases of someone unbanked paying for something with crypto? I guess I can see how it could happen in theory.
  - UncleEntity 8y ago
    I would if it were easier/cheaper than going to the corner store and buying a Visa Gift Card to make online purchases.
  - lawn 8y ago
    For example many homeless people have smartphones but they can't get a bank account. It can be really hard to pay your bills if you don't have a bank account today. Adoption wise we have very long to go but the tech is here.
- lsorber 8y ago
  > These are all served better by cryptocurrencies than other alternatives. Excuse my ignorance, but why would that be the case?
  - lawn 8y ago
    The problem for porn and pot companies is while legal businesses credit card companies don't accept them. In the case of porn sites they're forced to go through third parties which charge very large fees for each transaction. Pot stores are also cash only. Unfortunately cash isn't possible to send digital which is what cryptocurrencies essentially want to be (the term "digital cash" is sometimes used). Interestingly there have been reports of pot stores going bankrupt when the nearby ATM has been removed. The difference between 3rd party services like credit cards, PayPal, Apple Pay etc and cryptocurrencies is that nobody can prevent a payment for any reason. This is also why it's better to donate to Wikileaks with cryptocurrencies instead of PayPal since PayPal can if they want to freeze Wikileaks account. In fact this has happened [0]. Another difference is that you don't need to trust a 3rd party to deliver your payment. This is why you can't send money to Venezuela via Western Union but you can with cryptocurrencies (as long as they have internet of course). Leaving Venezuela's border means you'll get searched and forced to leave all your belongings. It's therefore very hard to bring your wealth with you as you'll most probably lose it or you can't carry it. With Bitcoin for example all you need to do is memorize or write down a 12 word seed and you can bring as much money as you want with you. Finally it's very difficult to make digital payments in today's world if you can't get a bank account. In effect you're locked out of society pretty hard if this would happen to you. Cryptocurrencies are permissionless and is for everyone. [0]: https://wikileaks.org/PayPal-freezes-WikiLeaks-donations.html https://wikileaks.org/PayPal-freezes-WikiLeaks-donations.htm...
    - lsorber 8y ago
      Thank you for the comprehensive answer! TIL
- camgunz 8y ago
  These are all uses for Bitcoin, not uses for general blockchain tech, so they're not "additional" uses. But for what it's worth, I think Bitcoin itself is superfluous, being covered almost entirely by: - Gift cards - PayPal - Credit Cards - Cash / Cashier's Checks / Certified Checks / Money Orders / Wire Transfers It wasn't at all necessary to build Bitcoin, with its planet-destroying proof of work energy usage, to pay for porn. And besides, the essence of anonymous payments using Bitcoin is the tumbler, not Bitcoin itself (which is super easy to track, precisely because it's got a blockchain). P.S. If your "leaving Venezuela with your wealth intact" is a "national currencies can be unstable" argument, remember that Bitcoin is extremely unstable and has no system in place to regulate or stabilize it. In fact, because it's often at odds with government monetary policy, there's a base instability that will never go away.
  - lawn 8y ago
    You're right I was simply talking about cryptocurrencies. The point is cryptocurrencies is simply better at the use cases I presented. You're welcome to come with a better alternative, the ones you list simply doesn't cut it. > It wasn't at all necessary to build Bitcoin Actually Bitcoin was built to address the print on demand fiat currency driven by debt and unaccountable fractional reserve driven economy we have today. Giving people the ability to actually own their money for real and not just IOUs. That digital cash is an excellent use case to pay for porn online is just a coincidence, never the purpose. > with its planet-destroying proof of work energy usage As opposed to the planet-destroying energy consumption of the fiat institution today? Or the tobacco industry? Or the military? Or any number of stupid usages of energy (which dwarfs the Bitcoin usage) we have today? That it's somehow "planet-destroying" is just ignorant. It may be inefficient but it's self regulating and it cannot increase endlessly. > And besides, the essence of anonymous payments using Bitcoin is the tumbler, not Bitcoin itself Please see Monero or the shielded transactions of ZCash for how real anonymous payments look. Also the pseudo-anonymous nature of Bitcoin is already better than the precise data we give credit card companies today. > remember that Bitcoin is extremely unstable and has no system in place to regulate or stabilize it Bitcoin is very volatile yes. Yet it's amazingly stable compared to the inflation of 4000% in Venezuela. It will also become more stable as it becomes adopted more.

lawn 8y ago

> There are no use cases that aren't (already) better served by existing technology. Repeating for the N:th time on HN. * Porn * Donations to wikileaks * Pot * Sending money to Venezuela * Leaving Venezuela with your wealth intact * Payments without giving all transaction info third parties (PayPal, VISA, etc) * Digital payments for the unbanked These are all served better by cryptocurrencies than other alternatives. A common counterargument is fees are very high on Bitcoin. This is true but it's only an argument against Bitcoin not cryptocurrencies in general. See Bitcoin Cash for example.

tim333 8y ago
Not sure about digital payments for the unbanked. Are there any real cases of someone unbanked paying for something with crypto? I guess I can see how it could happen in theory.
- UncleEntity 8y ago
  I would if it were easier/cheaper than going to the corner store and buying a Visa Gift Card to make online purchases.
- lawn 8y ago
  For example many homeless people have smartphones but they can't get a bank account. It can be really hard to pay your bills if you don't have a bank account today. Adoption wise we have very long to go but the tech is here.
lsorber 8y ago
> These are all served better by cryptocurrencies than other alternatives. Excuse my ignorance, but why would that be the case?
- lawn 8y ago
  The problem for porn and pot companies is while legal businesses credit card companies don't accept them. In the case of porn sites they're forced to go through third parties which charge very large fees for each transaction. Pot stores are also cash only. Unfortunately cash isn't possible to send digital which is what cryptocurrencies essentially want to be (the term "digital cash" is sometimes used). Interestingly there have been reports of pot stores going bankrupt when the nearby ATM has been removed. The difference between 3rd party services like credit cards, PayPal, Apple Pay etc and cryptocurrencies is that nobody can prevent a payment for any reason. This is also why it's better to donate to Wikileaks with cryptocurrencies instead of PayPal since PayPal can if they want to freeze Wikileaks account. In fact this has happened [0]. Another difference is that you don't need to trust a 3rd party to deliver your payment. This is why you can't send money to Venezuela via Western Union but you can with cryptocurrencies (as long as they have internet of course). Leaving Venezuela's border means you'll get searched and forced to leave all your belongings. It's therefore very hard to bring your wealth with you as you'll most probably lose it or you can't carry it. With Bitcoin for example all you need to do is memorize or write down a 12 word seed and you can bring as much money as you want with you. Finally it's very difficult to make digital payments in today's world if you can't get a bank account. In effect you're locked out of society pretty hard if this would happen to you. Cryptocurrencies are permissionless and is for everyone. [0]: https://wikileaks.org/PayPal-freezes-WikiLeaks-donations.html https://wikileaks.org/PayPal-freezes-WikiLeaks-donations.htm...
  - lsorber 8y ago
    Thank you for the comprehensive answer! TIL
camgunz 8y ago
These are all uses for Bitcoin, not uses for general blockchain tech, so they're not "additional" uses. But for what it's worth, I think Bitcoin itself is superfluous, being covered almost entirely by: - Gift cards - PayPal - Credit Cards - Cash / Cashier's Checks / Certified Checks / Money Orders / Wire Transfers It wasn't at all necessary to build Bitcoin, with its planet-destroying proof of work energy usage, to pay for porn. And besides, the essence of anonymous payments using Bitcoin is the tumbler, not Bitcoin itself (which is super easy to track, precisely because it's got a blockchain). P.S. If your "leaving Venezuela with your wealth intact" is a "national currencies can be unstable" argument, remember that Bitcoin is extremely unstable and has no system in place to regulate or stabilize it. In fact, because it's often at odds with government monetary policy, there's a base instability that will never go away.
- lawn 8y ago
  You're right I was simply talking about cryptocurrencies. The point is cryptocurrencies is simply better at the use cases I presented. You're welcome to come with a better alternative, the ones you list simply doesn't cut it. > It wasn't at all necessary to build Bitcoin Actually Bitcoin was built to address the print on demand fiat currency driven by debt and unaccountable fractional reserve driven economy we have today. Giving people the ability to actually own their money for real and not just IOUs. That digital cash is an excellent use case to pay for porn online is just a coincidence, never the purpose. > with its planet-destroying proof of work energy usage As opposed to the planet-destroying energy consumption of the fiat institution today? Or the tobacco industry? Or the military? Or any number of stupid usages of energy (which dwarfs the Bitcoin usage) we have today? That it's somehow "planet-destroying" is just ignorant. It may be inefficient but it's self regulating and it cannot increase endlessly. > And besides, the essence of anonymous payments using Bitcoin is the tumbler, not Bitcoin itself Please see Monero or the shielded transactions of ZCash for how real anonymous payments look. Also the pseudo-anonymous nature of Bitcoin is already better than the precise data we give credit card companies today. > remember that Bitcoin is extremely unstable and has no system in place to regulate or stabilize it Bitcoin is very volatile yes. Yet it's amazingly stable compared to the inflation of 4000% in Venezuela. It will also become more stable as it becomes adopted more.