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FT8 – Tipping Point for Ham Radio?
- hanoz 8y agoIs there any way I can pick this up using an RTL-SDR dongle?
- BenjiWiebe 8y agoYes. Make sure you are using direct sampling, attach a long wire, string it up. Use an audio pipe to pipe the audio from your SDR software into the WSJT-X software, which also lists the default frequencies for a given mode. Enjoy!
- wbl 8y agoAs someone about to start working HF after a long time with a technician license I didn't use I think low power digital modes are a valuable addition. But there is something to be said for PSK31's conversational nature.
- GlenTheMachine 8y agoThere's a variation of FT8, JS8CALL, that allows for text chat and data transmission. http://js8call.com http://js8call.com Seems to me that, especially for EmComm, this could be a total game changer. Field radio with small antennas, low power requirements, and nearly worldwide reach.
- kawfey 8y agoI feel like in an emergency situation, voice would still be the preferred mode since ARES and other HF radio organizations are dispatched to fill in coverage gaps that would have been there otherwise. You also need a working computer with the latest software, a digital interface, and have practiced digital mode operating skills.
- geofft 8y agoIn an emergency situation I'll probably have my cell phone, too. What I'd love to have is an app (or packaged web app using WebAudio) that encodes/decodes PSK31 so I can plug in an audio cable from my iPhone to my Baofeng and start typing.
- GlenTheMachine 8y agoI agree. So, why not a JS8CALL app? As I understand it, the real go-to mode for EmComm is still CW. Which implies very experienced operators. At some point in the future, you'll have more operators experienced with digital modes than Morse code. So...
- geofft 8y agoA CW app should also be doable....
- VLM 8y agoDroidPSK works great, along with many other apps for other modes; android only AFAIK.
- wbl 8y agoAn embedded processor should have the horsepower for the mode. Kit idea?
- AWildC182 8y agoThis has one unspoken bonus feature: Not having to talk to an octogenarian about politics. I know it sounds silly, but I suspect this is one of the huge features driving it's success. Amateur radio is plagued by bad actors and grumpy old men, along with the general age imbalance that makes it fairly unpleasant for young people and extremely unpleasant for anyone who sounds vaguely feminine...
- silman 8y agoAs someone who went from nothing -> Amateur Extra when i was 23 (25 now) from a random spurt of inspiration to learn ham radio and then promptly did nothing with the license i agree with this. I don't know exactly what i was expecting from getting the license but i will say that i didn't expect it to basically just be dominated by old conservative men who don't appreciate younger folk stepping in on their air space. I have yet to actually speak to anyone because i don't feel like there is anything i would want to say. Part of me was excited to do things like decode ISS transmission or send digital packets around the world; but i wanted to ease into the higher cost HF equipment with a simple and cheap as chips baofeng UHF/VHF radio (i know, its garbage but i like i said i wanted to ease into the hobby) and when i discovered there was nothing to do but listen to old men rant i just shelved the radio. I considered getting the bitX40 but never ended up doing it because i don't own the house i rent and putting an antenna up seems like a lot of work for a place i might move from soon. Admittedly maybe my problem was getting a baofeng UHF/VHF instead of something that i can plug into my computer and do digital modes with. But no one was really around to help me decide what to choose or give me insight into what i may want to do with my new AE powers.
- mmaunder 8y agoGuys, no one is forcing you to listen to that stuff. Get off the voice bands, get on digital and you'll have a blast. Here's a fun talk at Defcon from Balint Seeber, a ham who focuses on security, to get you in the right headspace. I attended this and the group of 6 of us that hung out afterwards with Balint was some of the most impressive people I've met at Defcon. One had built a bug sniffer. Another was intercepting satellite comms over Iraq. And Balint had a prototype SDR board he shared with us. So much fun. https://youtu.be/cHtHBqSZE4k https://youtu.be/cHtHBqSZE4k Yes, there is a community of rag chewers who use the voice bands, especially lower HF, to keep in touch with friends. That's a tiny part of the hobby and community.
- tibbon 8y agoI've got my technicians license, and have no idea what he's talking about. Can someone explain? Even the AARL page on this that's the top google hit doesn't jargon check itself at all: http://www.arrl.org/news/ft8-mode-is-latest-bright-shiny-object-in-amateur-radio-digital-world http://www.arrl.org/news/ft8-mode-is-latest-bright-shiny-obj...
- AWildC182 8y agoWhat would you like explained? I know the tech doesn't cover a lot regarding HF (which this is largely for). Sunspots? Propagation? Digital modes?
- mediocrejoker 8y agoWhat is FT8 and why is it controversial with hams?
- GlenTheMachine 8y agoIt's a digital mode that has impressive ability to hear weak signals. Which means you can have a small, inexpensive radio, a really suboptimal antenna, and still make worldwide contacts. The basic mode only allows you to make contact, it doesn't allow for discussions or data transfer. It's simply a “I'm here, and I can hear you” mode. It's controversial because a) to some hams, conversation is the reason to be on the air; and/or b) hams can be opinionated and grumpy, and some feel like if you haven't spent $5k on your radio/built your radio from scratch/exclusively use Morse code/devoted five acres of land to a 200 foot tall tower with a Yagi antenna you aren't doing it right. DX (long-distance communications) is an exclusive club. FT8 makes it a lot less exclusive. There's always resistance to that.
- mediocrejoker 8y agoThanks that makes it more understandable.
- lightlyused 8y ago
- oakwhiz 8y ago“Is FT8 damaging amateur radio?” It seems to be achieving the goal of global communications while making better use of limited spectrum to do so. I can't see that as being damaging as it really is an advancement in the state-of-the-art.
- jquinby 8y agoExactly so, and moreover, during a solar minimum, when HF propagation is sub-par even in OK conditions. The weak-signal stuff is what got me interested in upgrading from tech to general, and then extra. Every new thing over the decades has been met with the same "this is killing ham radio" response.
- bjt2n3904 8y agoI've yet to use FT8, but it's wonderful seeing the ham community invest in newer protocols that incorporate things like forward error correction! Many of the popular protocols, like PSK31 and AX.25 are getting long in the tooth. There's a beauty to their simplicity, but it leaves much to be desired. Though SDR is a bit of a misnomer, extracting data out of an audio signal with DSP on commodity hardware is becoming the new way to do radio. It certainly will never replace analog voice in terms of simplicity and availability, but it's definitely breathing life into the hobby!
- esaym 8y agoI'm trying hard to figure out what these "modes" are. Even after watching a video[0] I'm still not sure what is really going on. Is the whole point just to acknowledge 'pings' from other transmitters? Seems kind of pointless but I assume I'm missing something.... [0]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzXkIvoqvAY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzXkIvoqvAY
- AWildC182 8y agoMost "modes" like AM/FM and maybe SSB are like physical layer protocols, essentially just modulation schemes. A number of digital modes also maybe fall into this category as well as morse. FT8 is more of an application layer technology. It uses frequency shift key as it's physical layer but also has other abstractions at work like error correction and some session state management. It's not the only mode that could be described this way either, just the most popular right now.
- xvf22 8y agoWhile that may be true of this mode what it has evolved into is JS8CALL[0] which allows for something like IRC over HF (freeform chat). [0]http://js8call.com http://js8call.com
- jg42 8y agoSort of. The "rules" to establish a contact generally state that you have to exchange some data, but doesn't define "data". Mostly this devolves into a simple piece of data - your grid coordinate is one example. During contests (yes, there are amateur radio contests), a signal report (strength and clarity expressed as 2 digits) would be accepted. With a low bandwidth mode like this, there is not much possibility of transmitting more than a few bits of data. So a grid square and callsign are about all that will fit.
- Steltek 8y ago"Modes" would be much better named as "protocols" (like "Ethernet" or "IP"). Originally it was rudimentary analog protocols: AM, FM, Morse/CW that were decoded with simple circuits where "mode" might have been more appropriate.
- 8y ago
- jjacobs0 8y ago"Zero sunspots but working DX on FT8!" I don't get it. I thought sunspots killed radio communications?
- dbcurtis 8y agoMore sunspots are associated with increased solar flux, which cause ionization in the upper atmosphere. HF (3-30MHz) communication is generally enhanced by increased ionization (to a coarse first-order approximation -- the nuances fill many books and are not entirely understood.) At other frequencies, sunspots may or may not be a good or bad thing, depending on your definition of "good" and "bad".
- AWildC182 8y agoSimple explanation, sunspots energize the atmosphere making it easier for lower frequency signals to bounce off the upper atmosphere back down to the ground allowing longer range because you're not horizon limited.
- Vendan 8y agoDX is a term for a long distance contact. Increased sunspot activity results in increasing ionosphere ionization, resulting in an increase in the refracting power of the ionosphere. Higher refracting power means radio waves can be bent more, resulting in longer distance communication (also, the ionosphere bends lower frequencies better, so you get an increase in the MUF, or Maximum Usable Frequency that will get bent back to the earth.)
- exabrial 8y agoDepends on the band and your application. So what the HAM radio operators are doing is bouncing signals off the ionosphere. With more sunspots active, the ionosphere is more electrically charged, making is easier to bounce signals off of. People have bounced signals off of the ion trails of meteorites, space shuttle reentry, and other absurd stuff :)
- topspin 8y ago> I thought sunspots killed radio communications? They can. Sunspots can also greatly enhance radio communications. Outside of amateur radio this effect is rarely appreciated; ordinary radio service users usually only become aware of sunspots when they interfere with communication. Amateurs, however, operate on many different frequencies, and they achieve communication under unusual, rapidly changing conditions. They often use solar activity to their advantage. The story mentions "10m DX." This is ham speak for the 10 meter or 30 megahertz band (the high end of the 3-30 MHz "high frequency" or HF band, which is extremely low frequency by today's standards) long range (DX; multiple "hop", frequently international) communication. Using traditional modes the 10 meter band is presently "closed" to long distance communication, meaning you get nothing but static when you listen and no one detects your transmissions. The lack of solar activity is the reason the band is closed. When solar activity is high (lots of sunspots) one can use a low cost transceiver, a small antenna and an easily obtained license and reach people thousands of miles away.
- mmaunder 8y agoJT65 is amazing for weak signals. So this is quite exciting. More data on the specs: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSJT_(amateur_radio_software)#FT8 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSJT_(amateur_radio_software...
- platz 8y agoSo is FT8 is to ham radio as WebAssembly is to the internet?
- howard941 8y agoFrom the balance of comments on this article you'd think FT8 was saving ham radio from itself. /death of ham radio predicted, film at 11
- setquk 8y agoIt’s been dying for about 30 years I understand. Kenwood, Yaesu and Icom all went bankrupt 20 year ago. Home owners associations stopped all antennas being erected and power lines and ADSL finished the charred smouldering remains off. Now I’m going to lock myself in the basement with my guns and cans of beans.
- HowTheSausageIs 8y agoThe FT8 developers have an amazingly strong knowledge of information theory as well as the many practical considerations of communication over an RF channel. Feature addition and bug fixing are slow because the developers don't believe in abstraction, and instead code as if the only option were a direct carryover of FORTRAN 77 conventions into C++. There's no longer a public repo but https://sourceforge.net/p/wsjt/wsjtx/ci/master/tree/mainwindow.cpp#l7380 https://sourceforge.net/p/wsjt/wsjtx/ci/master/tree/mainwind... is representative of current code.
- MisterTea 8y agoInteresting. But as a non-ham I find the article chock full of ham jargon which leaves me completely lost. > What happened to take an esoteric mode designed for multi-hop E skip on VHF and overnight turn it into a worldwide phenomenon across all bands from 2200m through 70cm? In other words, what makes FT8 a killer app? Indeed. What does make FT8 the killer app? Anyone care to break this down in layman's terms that an EE with basic radio knowledge can understand?
- sevensor 8y agoSo, multi-hop E-skip is a way that the signal can propagate through the ionosphere. (E-layer skip: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporadic_E_propagation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporadic_E_propagation). 2200m and 7cm are wavelengths. FT8 is a digital mode that can transmit a very restrictied amount of information -- basically your callsign and where you are. Exchanging this information is enough for a contact, or QSO. The debate is about whether it's still about communication when you can't really talk to people using FT8. Edit: And contacts are basically how hams keep score. You used to send postcards to the people you'd talked to. Old hams have binders full of them.
- MisterTea 8y agoAh, I think I understand. I remember hearing the term, "shooting skip", which I understand as slang CB users used for talking to people past the horizon using the ionosphere to bounce the radio waves. So if I understand correctly this is a game hams play where you try to skip your signal as far as possible and see if you get a ping? If I am understand this properly, this successful exchange earns you a point and the old timers used post cards as score keeping, as once the ping was established they could each mail each other. I assume FT8 is text only?
- ianburrell 8y agoFT8 and other weak signal modes can work with more noise and less signal than conventional modes. Which makes possible to communicate with the current poor HF propagation, or with lower power devices and longer distances. It does this by using low bandwidth (50 Hz), low bit rate (6 bit/s), and error correction. The other special thing about FT8 is that it only does contacts, with binary messages for doing the exchange.
- Jemm 8y agoBy FT8 do they mean FT8 Call?
- bigjimmyk3 8y agoFT8Call has been renamed to JS8Call (and also mentioned upthread).
- zokier 8y agoI feel like I'm missing some context here; why is FT8 controversial in the first place?
- joezydeco 8y agoI'd just like someone to de-jargonize the whole article.
- Custardian 8y agoGlobal communication in amateur radio was previously only been possible using high power transmissions (which requires a full license). FT8 makes global communication achievable for beginner amateur radio folk. Some amateur radio practitioners think if you want global communications without learning radio theory, use your ISP or SIM provider.
- someguydave 8y agoBut knowing “radio theory” isn’t enough to have global SSB conversations on HF. You need a high antenna and reasonably high power, something which most of the population will never be able to have because of how harshly antennas are judged by others in the real estate market.
- VLM 8y agoHam radio is an incredibly large hobby much like model railroading or warhammer40K or photography or RC aircraft or sex or ... computer programming. Similar to every other area of human activity thats ever existed and ever will, tiny sub-group Z will always trash talk everyone doing sub-group A thru Y as not enjoying the model railroading hobby the 'correct' way or not using the 'correct' editor/IDE or not doing the correct thing in the bedroom or whatevs. So its discussing the usual collision of "whoa this new activity (fad?) is becoming super popular outta no where" with the usual "What I've been doing for 50 years is the only correct way to do it" There's nothing inherently wrong or bad or incorrect about SSB analog voice modulation on wavelengths near 80 meters; but you can't expect life long aficionados of that particular sub-group to be excited about some rapidly growing subgroup they're not interested in. So thats the "FT8 is killing ham radio" Now as for why any of this matters, the analog HF SSB crowd has cornered the national USA hobby club such that QST magazine etc promotes 80M SSB operation in the USA as being the "only real ham radio" and then the usual political fallout and drama.
- pongo_000 8y agoI was listening to some CW last night on 40m while working on compiling WSJT-X 2.0. What struck me is that of the several QSOs they were slow enough for me to follow in my head, the total exchange of information was about the same as with an FT-8 contact. Oh, there were the “filler” items like name and QTH and “73 73 es CUL” and human error corrections, but the information payload in the CW QSOs was not significantly higher than an FT-8 QSO. The typical CW QSO took about 5-10 minutes to complete. The FT-8 QSO (with essentially the same data payload) took one minute. If anything, FT-8 represents a more efficient way of exchanging information than CW. It’s doubtful the “death” of ham radio will cone about at the bits of a more efficient mode than CW.
- hexo 8y agoBut, what is FT8???? :(
- hexo 8y agoBut wait. What it actually is? Modulation? Radio? I just didn't get it from the article, so please explain (explanatory article is ok too).
- knorker 8y agoLow bitrate modulation of short messages. The messages are signal reports, and a whole two-way contact is literally automated multi-message back-and-forth.
- ssimpson 8y agodigital messages encoded in a format then transmitted using frequency shift keying for the data to audio. it has 15 sec transmit/receive cycles and due to the error correction involved has very few characters that are actually transmitted.
- vidanay 8y agoIsochronous Twitter for ham radio except only 13 characters. It's great!
- hatsunearu 8y agoI think the FCC should remove the 300 baud limit for HF which is super arbitrary and limiting for real digital modes. That limit makes modes that are quite distant from modern day commercial digital modulations viable--FT8, JT65, and so on being examples. They are primarily asynchronous MFSK detectors with tons of symbols--pretty weird design and a work around of the 300 baud limit. We can't get cool stuff like QAM, high rate PSK, and other nice modes working because of this arbitrary old rule.
- ac29 8y agoCurious, what about the symbol rate limit limits you from using, say 8PSK or 16QAM? Is it that it also effectively limits channel bandwidth to something that isn't practical to transmit and/or receive with higher order modulation?
- hatsunearu 8y agoSuper late but good question. I should ask some seasoned hams about this. I'm curious as well.