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I've been struggling with this for a while and you put it really well. However it frustrates me to no end, that customers are expected to do compensation shari

I've been struggling with this for a while and you put it really well. However it frustrates me to no end, that customers are expected to do compensation sharing with the employer. The nefarious thing about this is that the employer has put the negotiating for fair wages between the customer and employees instead of between the employees and the employer. End of the day its manageable as you say, just price in the tip - however I prefer places that have it priced in (same goes for tax).

tptacek 8y ago
Another way to look at it is that tipping lubricates the market pricing interface between customers and vendors. If they didn't allow tipping, restaurants would charge more to make up the difference (margins in service work are almost always very low). In a tipping system, when things are going well, everyone tips; if things aren't going so well, not so much. There's some wiggle room between the list price and the actual price, which might offset price stickiness. Either way, tipping is not an elaborate conspiracy. It might have been long ago, but today, it's just the way service work in the US is organized. If you want to crusade against the injustice of it, that's fine! But make sure your crusade is orthogonal to whether or not you actually tip. :)
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  > If they didn't allow tipping, restaurants would charge more to make up the difference (margins in service work are almost always very low). Neither good nor bad. > In a tipping system, when things are going well, everyone tips; if things aren't going so well, not so much. There's some wiggle room between the list price and the actual price, which might offset price stickiness. That's terrible! Instead of the burden being spread around, the restaurant still makes money and the employee doesn't!
  - derefr 8y ago
    The restaurant doesn't still make money—the under-tipped employees quit to seek better employment, and at the going wage the employer is offering, there is no further demand for that job to replace the employees who have quit. So fewer employees have to take on the slack of "doing more", and thus each one ends up making roughly as much in tips as before (at equilibrium, if they manage to take up that slack); or they don't manage to take up the slack, demand isn't matched to supply, and the business's total revenue decreases. The market is efficient... eventually.
    - MauranKilom 8y ago
      > at the going wage the employer is offering, there is no further demand for that job to replace the employees who have quit That assertion comes out of nowhere...
    - asdff 8y ago
      >The restaurant doesn't still make money—the under-tipped employees quit to seek better employment, and at the going wage the employer is offering, there is no further demand for that job to replace the employees who have quit. Is this not true with every company in every industry? Pay is a major reason why people leave a job for another. If an employer is struggling to find labor at a low ball price, they will raise their offer.
onetimemanytime 8y ago
>>However it frustrates me to no end, that customers are expected to do compensation sharing with the employer A debate, perhaps worth having. Meanwhile your server makes less than minimum wage because tips are expected to fill in the gap. A while back it was $2.13 an hour. Not giving him a tip is only going to ruin his day, not start a revolution. As of right now, the chicken dish cost $16 plus an unofficial but expected 15-20% tip. Do you have the roughly $20? if not, grab a few slices of pizza. Edit: I don't tip 20% when I grab a coffee at Dunkin. Oh no. Maybe leave them the loose change.
- CharlesW 8y ago
  > I don't tip 20% when I grab a coffee at Dunkin. Why not? Not a critique, just curious about your rationale when you note that "tips are expected to fill in the gap".
  - onetimemanytime 8y ago
    they make probably $10+ an hour and are not considered "tipped" employees, that's way more than a waiter's minimum (used to be $2.13 or so)
    - asdff 8y ago
      Employers pay the difference between tipped and untipped employee wages if the tips + wage don't beat minimum wage. However in regards to Dunkin Donuts, I'm not sure the employees can even accept or keep any tips themselves. Maybe a Dunkin Donuts regular can comment whether they can accept tips; many franchise restaurants have a no tipping policy.
      - gbear605 8y ago
        Employers are supposed to pay the difference, but often don't. At least at some Dunkins, employees split tips among everyone working, but it stays with the employees.
- mrep 8y ago
tedunangst 8y ago
It's division of labor. The owner pays for the employee to show up and make the store look open. You pay for the service actually rendered.
- Udik 8y ago
  Thanks, then I'll bring my own waiter.
  - snowwrestler 8y ago
    At a lot of restaurants, you do bring your own waiter. These also tend to be restaurants with no tipping. Think: McDonalds or Subway.
    - Symbiote 8y ago
      Isn't this exactly what the article is about? McDonalds and certainly Subway are more effort to the staff than passing over a pre-packed muffin in a coffee shop.

tptacek 8y ago

Another way to look at it is that tipping lubricates the market pricing interface between customers and vendors. If they didn't allow tipping, restaurants would charge more to make up the difference (margins in service work are almost always very low). In a tipping system, when things are going well, everyone tips; if things aren't going so well, not so much. There's some wiggle room between the list price and the actual price, which might offset price stickiness. Either way, tipping is not an elaborate conspiracy. It might have been long ago, but today, it's just the way service work in the US is organized. If you want to crusade against the injustice of it, that's fine! But make sure your crusade is orthogonal to whether or not you actually tip. :)

Dylan16807 8y ago
> If they didn't allow tipping, restaurants would charge more to make up the difference (margins in service work are almost always very low). Neither good nor bad. > In a tipping system, when things are going well, everyone tips; if things aren't going so well, not so much. There's some wiggle room between the list price and the actual price, which might offset price stickiness. That's terrible! Instead of the burden being spread around, the restaurant still makes money and the employee doesn't!
- derefr 8y ago
  The restaurant doesn't still make money—the under-tipped employees quit to seek better employment, and at the going wage the employer is offering, there is no further demand for that job to replace the employees who have quit. So fewer employees have to take on the slack of "doing more", and thus each one ends up making roughly as much in tips as before (at equilibrium, if they manage to take up that slack); or they don't manage to take up the slack, demand isn't matched to supply, and the business's total revenue decreases. The market is efficient... eventually.
  - MauranKilom 8y ago
    > at the going wage the employer is offering, there is no further demand for that job to replace the employees who have quit That assertion comes out of nowhere...
  - asdff 8y ago
    >The restaurant doesn't still make money—the under-tipped employees quit to seek better employment, and at the going wage the employer is offering, there is no further demand for that job to replace the employees who have quit. Is this not true with every company in every industry? Pay is a major reason why people leave a job for another. If an employer is struggling to find labor at a low ball price, they will raise their offer.

onetimemanytime 8y ago

>>However it frustrates me to no end, that customers are expected to do compensation sharing with the employer A debate, perhaps worth having. Meanwhile your server makes less than minimum wage because tips are expected to fill in the gap. A while back it was $2.13 an hour. Not giving him a tip is only going to ruin his day, not start a revolution. As of right now, the chicken dish cost $16 plus an unofficial but expected 15-20% tip. Do you have the roughly $20? if not, grab a few slices of pizza. Edit: I don't tip 20% when I grab a coffee at Dunkin. Oh no. Maybe leave them the loose change.

CharlesW 8y ago
> I don't tip 20% when I grab a coffee at Dunkin. Why not? Not a critique, just curious about your rationale when you note that "tips are expected to fill in the gap".
- onetimemanytime 8y ago
  they make probably $10+ an hour and are not considered "tipped" employees, that's way more than a waiter's minimum (used to be $2.13 or so)
  - asdff 8y ago
    Employers pay the difference between tipped and untipped employee wages if the tips + wage don't beat minimum wage. However in regards to Dunkin Donuts, I'm not sure the employees can even accept or keep any tips themselves. Maybe a Dunkin Donuts regular can comment whether they can accept tips; many franchise restaurants have a no tipping policy.
    - gbear605 8y ago
      Employers are supposed to pay the difference, but often don't. At least at some Dunkins, employees split tips among everyone working, but it stays with the employees.
mrep 8y ago

tedunangst 8y ago

It's division of labor. The owner pays for the employee to show up and make the store look open. You pay for the service actually rendered.

Udik 8y ago
Thanks, then I'll bring my own waiter.
- snowwrestler 8y ago
  At a lot of restaurants, you do bring your own waiter. These also tend to be restaurants with no tipping. Think: McDonalds or Subway.
  - Symbiote 8y ago
    Isn't this exactly what the article is about? McDonalds and certainly Subway are more effort to the staff than passing over a pre-packed muffin in a coffee shop.