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This is one of the reasons I refused to become a merc after the Corps. I knew guys that were getting payed 160k tax free for this type of stuff, but there was a
by arminiusreturns 8y ago
This is one of the reasons I refused to become a merc after the Corps. I knew guys that were getting payed 160k tax free for this type of stuff, but there was always something deep inside that told me it would not be worth it and that it conflicted with my dedication to the principles of the constitution. I'm glad I stayed away. Eventually the merc business was saturated and the pay dropped dramatically anyway.
- ttul 8y agoHmm. SDE at Facebook for $250K, or life-risking merc in Yemen for $160K albeit tax free. Tough call.
- booleandilemma 8y agoBetter dating prospects for the merc though.
- tdb7893 8y agoIn all seriousness is dating as a software engineer difficult? I would've thought that with the money and consistent free time it wouldn't be that bad.
- blattimwind 8y agoIt is not.
- 1337biz 8y agoIn this world there are hunters and farmers.
- scythe 8y agoIt depends on your personality, cultural background/preferences, and lifestyle as well as the more traditional factors like appearance, race, height, etc. Some kinds of people like to date "techies", but other kinds of people don't. But you personally may feel more compatible with someone in the second category, which can be frustrating. For many software engineers, dating can be very easy; for others, not so easy. (NB. Bay Area perspective.)
- munchbunny 8y agoIt's not, or at least not directly because you're a software engineer. However, some areas where software engineers tend to congregate (I'm mostly talking about Silicon Valley) have some pretty skewed demographics, so if you're a straight male in San Francisco, it's going to be harder for you.
- nostrademons 8y agoIn Silicon Valley it's terrible, largely because of the skewed gender ratio, gender-segregated employment & hobbies, and culture of working all the time. Even if you get a date and have time to go on it there's a good chance you'll have nothing to talk with her about. In most other cities (even just going an hour north to SF) it's fine. "Software engineer" used to have a nerd stigma a generation ago, but that hasn't been the case in a decade or more, and nerds can do fine with women.
- staticautomatic 8y agoA) First date is mostly about listening. B) If 100% of your hobbies and life interests are gender-specific things that you can't talk about on dates, you might wanna branch out a little. C) A and B also apply to women.
- nostrademons 8y agoWell, I'm happily married and my wife is a Silicon Valley native, so ultimately I "succeeded" at the dating game. It was pretty miserable while I was in it, though. Silicon Valley is not really a place where the culture encourages "branching out a little", nor does it attract people who are interested in that. This is self-reinforcing: people who were born here and aren't interested in tech tend to move up to SF/Berkeley/Oakland while they're single, which have greater cultural diversity. I was in some sense lucky: I met my wife when she had recently moved back from Peru and was re-establishing her career here. Another year or so and she probably would've moved to Berkeley.
- gscott 8y agoWhat I have learned about a first date is it is to try to get a second date. Try to be yourself but not to strange. If you are trying to act like someone else the woman sees right through it.
- Simon_says 8y ago> B) If 100% of your hobbies and life interests are gender-specific things that you can't talk about on dates, you might wanna branch out a little. That's condescending. Maybe I choose my interests for my enjoyment rather than other peoples'.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- noobermin 8y agoNot everyone has the experience or requisite knowledge to take a developer job.
- bilbo0s 8y ago>Not everyone has the experience or requisite knowledge to take a developer job... Or to become a contractor. No one's gonna pay you 160k and trust you to operate in Yemen just because you play militia on the weekends with some overweight guys from your state and you won a marksmanship match once out at your local shooting range.
- atulmadhugiri 8y agothat's making a lot of assumptions
- jorblumesea 8y agoHow many ex-military folks can pass the FB phone screen, let alone whiteboard? (How many software engineers, for that matter?) For the military, where officers are making even less than a SDE 1 at Microsoft, this is insane amounts of money. Equivalent to 3 years of salary for NCO or enlisted. I hate the "why doesn't X just become a software engineer" attitude.
- jonathankoren 8y agoHonestly, it's probably no different than anyone else controlling for skill set. They're just people.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- walrus01 8y agoNote that the $160k is for people with a very different skill set, who might be ex-army rangers or marines, who could be making $30k managing a Waffle House somewhere in middle america otherwise. In the case of US contractors (PAE, Fluor, Bechtel etc operating in Iraq, Afghanistan) there is also the tax factor, known to all overseas contractors. I am not precise on the dates and figures here, but something like the first $85k of gross income is completely untaxed, if they remain outside of the USA more than 325 days per year. And no state income taxes because they're not a resident of any state. Something tells me that these guys have 100% of their payroll for whatever they were doing handled domestically within the UAE, and aren't declaring it to the IRS, however.
- bluedino 8y agoOr they could get a desk job or warehouse manager job with their security clearance in the US for like $90k.
- walrus01 8y agoIf their skill set is more on the pointy end of the stick, however, they may not qualify for that. There's a lot of civilians going around the federal contracting job market who have a few years of experience working as a middle-management fobbit at LSA Anaconda in Iraq, or similar, who will get that job before another applicant who is an ex army ranger who did 5 rotations through Kapisa and Kunar provinces.
- bilbo0s 8y agoNot if it's a warm body desk job that requires a security clearance. A lot of those jobs are fairly up front about informing all the applicants that veterans will be given preference.
- afarrell 8y ago"fobbit" means refers to military personnel, so they would be beneficiaries of veteran preferences. How many of those jobs with veteran preference are yet more specific about giving preference to infantry or those who have directly been in combat?
- arminiusreturns 8y agoMany of the guys getting that 160 would never be the type to be able to make 250 in SV. Being good at killing doesn't exactly translate well to the civilian world job market... though it is a specialized skillet that not just anybody can do. I'm lucky I had computers as a backup. Many combat vets aren't so lucky and it can make the transition to civilian life very hard.
- tomjakubowski 8y agoYou might enjoy "Barry", an HBO black comedy series which touches on this topic. The protagonist is a discharged Marine turned civilian hitman who discovers a passion for acting. He encounters a few fellow "killer Marines" who have had issues transitioning to civilian life.
- arminiusreturns 8y agoAlready watched and loved it. Can't wait for season 2. What's funny? Before the Marine Corps I was in LA to be an actor, headshots and Dennys job and all... the irony of life eh? Now I have scars and am probably too ugly for it, but it's funny to imagine where life could have gone.
- ben_w 8y agoThere are a lot of ugly actors out there, so no matter what scars you have, don’t let them get in the way of your passion. Heck, get famous and someone will ask for a body mod to look more like you.
- xtracto 8y ago> Now I have scars and am probably too ugly for it, Have you seen Danny Trejo? Like.. he is not the prettiest guy, but I still LOVE him, love his acting and the movies he has been in.
- idontpost 8y agoHey, if Mickey Rourke could have a career....
- gnulinux 8y agoPretty much everyone can be a merc but to be SDE in Facebook you need quite a bit of privilege to be well-educated or insane amount of self-discipline, motivation and focus to educate yourself. Apples&Oranges.
- skeptic_69 8y agoi think become a seal/green beret is pretty challenging !
- mywittyname 8y agoCorrect. It's straight-forward to get into the regular special forces. Anyone with slightly better than average intelligence and physique can make it. The elite special forces is a completely different ballgame. You need to be smarter and more fit than probably 90% of the population. Lots of these guys end up doing very well for themselves after leaving the military.
- SaltyBackendGuy 8y ago> regular special forces. Anyone with slightly better than average intelligence and physique can make it. From personal experience I can say this is incorrect. The 'regular' special forces are the Green Berets (Top 5% of the Army). Elite special forces (CAG/Delta) 5% of the 5%
- ryanwaggoner 8y agoYou have a ridiculously optimistic view of the US population if you think that 10% of us could become Navy SEALs.
- beaconstudios 8y agoif you go by YouTube comments, 10% already are.
- mywittyname 8y ago
- Retra 8y agoGee, if only everybody had that choice.
- GreeniFi 8y agoI found this and your follow-up comments to be very interesting. I wonder if I could ask you to comment on the psychology of men who do this. Do they feel fear? Do they experience guilt or contrition? If so, how do they manage these feelings? I guess it’s neurological outliers who self-select for these jobs. Whilst I have met a few security contractors over the years, I’ve never had the courage to ask them about their motivations and inner experience. I also realize that hit squads like this are a world away from the more regular experience of arranging security patrols of oil installations, but it’s apecifically these more atypical people I wonder about.
- arminiusreturns 8y agoOf course these types of people feel fear. Some more than others, some less. It depends on their training, and temperament, and the situation. Even in a combat unit it's highly likely at least one person is going to curl up into a ball and piss themselves while crying. Then there are the guys who run through a hail of bullets... I think of it like Heraclitus; “Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.” In the modern context, what equals out those numbers is largely training and muscle memory, so that once your adrenaline kicks in and your brain isn't fully functioning, you still know what needs to be done and can do it almost on autopilot. That can turn more of the 80 into the 9, so to speak, which is what a modern military needs.
- GreeniFi 8y agoI love that Heraclitus quote and it’s interesting to hear how training turns “targets” into “fighters”. However, I still wonder about the psychology of the mercenary asassin. Who are they, what stories do they tell themselves to justify their actions and does the 160k buy them peace of mind?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Nasrudith 8y agoAren't mercenaries also essentially encouraged to be war criminals by the Geneva Convention ironically? They are always unlawful combatants. They receive no protection from it and thus are encouraged to be brutal indirectly. While a seminal work the Geneva Convention had its own politicking embedded within like the bias against expanding rounds which are useful in a situationally tactical and ironically slightly humanitarian way by risking less overpenetration. There are some good arguments against mercenaries incentive wise as being bad for peace. Ironically Military Industrial Complexes have even worse incentives - an amoral actor (out to maximize gain and indifferent to suffering not inflicting it gratuitously) might want to start a war but it should be one they would win and survive. A MIC with the same lack of morality would care only about generating demand and not victory as seen as early as Civil War profiteers who sold shoddy goods. On the other hand one advantage a MIC has is they are content with cold wars and stockpiling. The underlying problem war for profit is sadly ancient - before there was such a thing as a MIC many would fight openly for the sake of plunder and profit.
- DrJokepu 8y agoThey’re not necessarily unlawful combatants, it really depends on the specific circumstances. The Geneva Conventions contain a few loopholes. For example, if the United States is a participating party in the conflict, US citizens are not unlawful combatants, even if they aren’t affiliated with the US armed forces.
- arminiusreturns 8y agoBring back letters of marque and writs of assistance?
- leetcrew 8y agohollow points are banned by the hague conventions, not geneva, and notably the us did not actually sign that section. it is sort of silly though. if i understand correctly, hollow points are not terribly useful in a typical military engagement because they are easily stopped by body armor. modern military rounds like 5.56 are designed to have a small cross-sectional area at impact to penetrate armor.
- danso 8y agoJust another anecdote: one of my best friends who managed to keep his liberal leanings while serving as a Marine sniper in Iraq, told me he found working for a contractor (forgot which one, but it wasn't Blackwater) for the State Department to have stricter rules of engagement than what he experienced during his tours of duty. The example he gave was a scenario in which he were to spot someone who appeared to be setting up an IED trap on a road. As a Marine, he'd be justified in shooting the suspected insurgent. But as a contractor, he was instructed to avoid conflict (and the ensuing controversy) unless he/the U.S. embassy were facing imminent danger -- so the preferred course of action would be to call in what he saw for someone else to deal with.
- dogma1138 8y agoThe ROE is stipulated in the contract if it’s not troop supplement or “combat advisory” the ROE will be very restrictive especially on the protection details contracts they are often not allowed to engage even at the clear signs of hostile action as long as it’s not targeted at them or US personnel. As in they can witness a whole village being razed and wouldn’t be allowed to fire a single shot whilst a soldier would be compelled to engage and for the most part an order not to do so will likely be an illegal one.
- walrus01 8y agoFormer contractor here: We were armed 24x7 and had VERY restrictive, defensive only ROE. I slept with a loaded VZ58 next to my bed for years. We drove around armed and wearing body armor whenever we left a compound or base. Our supervisors, the organization which employed our company, and their senior management were exceedingly clear that we were only authorized to aim or discharge a weapon in self defense. People reading articles like this may get the idea that the vast army of "contractors" which were shuffling around Iraq and Afghanistan in the 2003-2011 time frame were somehow in offensive roles. Even Blackwater had a fairly restrictive ROE. The actual number of contractors who were in any way proactively engaged in combat operations, usually embedded with an organization with the ANA or ANP, I would estimate at about 1% of the contractor population total. The remaining 99% were confined to a strictly defensive ROE. Nobody wanted to piss away their $170k a year, nearly tax free job because they'd mistaken something that wasn't a threat, for an actual threat. VBIED, BBIED and other threats to vehicles while driving around are not going to be solved by shooting at people anyways. In the entire multi year time period that I spent in operational areas, not a single person from the company that I worked for ever discharged a weapon, for any reason, outside of the shooting range.
- AcerbicZero 8y agoNo one calls them mercenaries and 160k is on the low end for PSD work, let alone what is described in this article.
- walrus01 8y ago160k is actually on the high end for PSD work now, with the contractor total staff numbers in Iraq/Afghanistan down to maybe 5-10% of what they were during the peak around 2007-2009. There are A LOT of guys out there who have 1, 2 or 3 years of experience doing something PSD related during the peak contractor-staff periods of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, who are back in the US doing very normal things right now. The salaries they're paying for US Citizen guards at the US Embassy in Kabul are around $90k at present. There's a sufficient number of people who really need the money that they can recruit and fill positions at that figure.
- arminiusreturns 8y agoBack when I got out in 07 that was about the going rate, give or take 40k and this is HN, I try not to use acronym bingo on audiences that might not know it. (and not all mercs are on PSD, a subset of the many different functions of a PMC)
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago> No one calls them mercenaries They are, though.
- dingaling 8y ago> No one calls them mercenaries The PMCs don't call themselves mercenaries. Everyone else does, though. And it's accurate: ’from Latin mercēnārius (“hired for money")’
- supergirl 8y ago> it conflicted with my dedication to the principles of the constitution I imagine being an assassin would conflict there a bit yeah
- lordnacho 8y ago> payed 160k tax free Tax free or after tax? Aren't Americans taxed worldwide?
- toomuchtodo 8y agoCombat zone tax exclusion. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/combat-zones https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/combat-zones
- vowelless 8y agoThere is a lot more money than that involved. A marine acquaintance mentioned high six figures around 2004 or or so.
- narag 8y agoEventually the merc business was saturated and the pay dropped dramatically anyway. I wonder what would happen if USA completely ends the operations that keep this people busy. How many of them are there? What are they supposed to do then? Office work?
- opsroller 8y agoYou mean $760k I hope? At least that’s how much I see people making.