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American Mercenaries Were Hired to Assassinate Politicians in the Middle East
- sonnyblarney 8y agoWow, what a cluster-F of an operation, I often think these guys are overrated. Also, Green Berets don't have much in the way of experience or training on these specific kinds of things, in fact very, very few American forces will. I hope these guys are sanctioned back in the US.
- skeptic_69 8y agoSeals do a lot of direct action. Someone more qualified should explain how much direct action they do. I think a lot.
- sonnyblarney 8y agoNot only are there very, very few Seals, an even smaller fraction of them have ever actually done anything like this. Also Green Berets are way more towards 'Army' than anything like this. The US forces do not run around knocking off people like this very often. Now I don't have hyper specific insight, but I'll bet $1000 that not even Seals do 'explosive based drive-by assassinations' either. Because it's just not in the playbook. Regular forces, Green Berets, Rangers etc. have nothing to do with this kind of stuff. I have military experience, though not American, and I don't keep up with it.
- qaq 8y agoIsn't this what SAD/SOG would be doing?
- sonnyblarney 8y agoI really don't think Western powers are in the assassination business at all, at least not anymore. Unless they are 'wanted' type bad guys, like hardcore terrorists. There are so many ways for it to fallout. That explosion for example, what a bunch of idiots, they almost killed themselves ... and can you imagine if there were children? Most US journalists and pretty much all foreign journalists would want that scoop of a story, and they're smart. I mean - this video got out ...
- dbuder 8y agoAbduction/kidnapping is more common, most of the time they are training locals though, just read the job ad.
- 394549 8y agoAmerican private military companies like this one and Blackwater need to be abolished.
- CapitalistCartr 8y agoWe've had mercenaries since the Pharaohs of Egypt. Its as likely to work as abolishing prostitution, politics, or drinking.
- 394549 8y agoMercenaries may always exist, but American ones don't have to. Participation in them should be made illegal, and all these private military companies should forbidden to operate until they find another line of business or liquidate themselves. If some former soldier or former general wants to become a mercenary, let him renounce his citizenship and go find a new home. The only military forces in the US should be explicit parts of official US military.
- JoeAltmaier 8y agoIts a curious job - murder for hire? I don't think it actually is legal in the US.
- dragonwriter 8y agoGiven that the US is not, in fact, at war with Yemen, it doesn't seem to be legal outside the US for US citizens or people within US jurisdiction when doing any planning, etc., related to it; see, U.S. Code tit. 18, ch. 45, particularly §§ 956, 958, and 960. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-45 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-45
- sonnyblarney 8y agoWe've had extortion and murder as well, your argument doesn't really help. Modern nation states can 100% regulate themselves on the use of irregular forces - there are situations for them, and many not. They could be doing some enhanced security, some types of armed guards ... but not anything tactical, certainly not anything mission oriented or directed kinds of violence.
- mnm1 8y agoSeems to me like the only terrorists in this story are the American mercenaries and UAE government that hired them.
- legostormtroopr 8y agoGiven all the talk of tech companies (like Buzzfeed) taking Saudi money, and the actual public assassination of a reporter by the Saudis in the last week, I find it really coincidental and convenient that an article is released right now talking about US assassinations in the Mid East.
- pjc50 8y agoTwo sides of the same coin: these are ""private"" mercenaries fighting on behalf of the UAE in the multi-faceted war in Yemen. UAE are allied with Saudi there.
- jsonne 8y agodeleted
- bilbo0s 8y agoIranian propaganda would be keeping a big, bright, spotlight squarely on Khashoggi. They don't want anyone in the MidEast thinking about anything else right now. That's part of the reason it's so critical for us to get out in front of this thing. The Saudis need to understand that they have gone too far this time. (We probably should have drawn the line when they kidnapped the prime minister of another nation. We should've never let them get away with that.)
- jsonne 8y agoI mean the article pretty explicitly lumps this together with the Saudis and even goes so far as to call it part of a proxy war against Iran. "The UAE and Saudi Arabia lead an alliance of nine countries in Yemen, fighting what is largely a proxy war against Iran. The US is helping the Saudi-UAE side by providing weapons, intelligence, and other support." Seems its in their interest to pile on against the Saudis with even more evidence of wrongdoing. (Not that I'm a staunch supporter of the Saudi regime by any means. Just interesting timing is all.)
- bilbo0s 8y agoThe Saudis probably. A not so subtle demonstration of their ability to air our dirty laundry if we get too upset about them offing that journalist.
- rjain15 8y agoI wonder what would have Senator John McCain thought about this program? Miss him.
- adamnemecek 8y agodoes his track record indicate he was particularly anti this?
- forgotmysn 8y agoit does, yes. he was very against the privatization of the military and intelligence services
- dragonwriter 8y agoHe was against the privatization of certain US military and intelligence functions, but I'm not aware of him being against foreign states hiring US military or intelligence contractors for similar functions.
- Balgair 8y agoPrivatization of military functions was a key reason for the downfall of the Roman Republic. Troops became loyal to generals, not to the Republic herself, as the general became the paymaster/generator of funds. The echos are getting louder.
- gnulinux 8y agoIt's not clear to me why Roman Empire would be relevant in this case. Society, economy, politics, military, culture, technology, wars, the life of soldiers... a lot of things were different back then.
- Balgair 8y agoRoman Republic, not the Empire. There are always lessons in history, even accounting for the differences between an agrarian and digital society. Private militaries have proven to be rather fickle when it comes to rights v. might.
- oh_sigh 8y agoI'm guessing this is in the news because of the Khashoggi murder. An important point here is that this was orchestrated by the UAE government, and the Americans involved were private individuals who were not operating with any kind of sanction or approval from the US government.
- pjc50 8y ago> not operating with any kind of sanction or approval from the US government. Not officially, no, but if US intelligence isn't keeping track of them they're not doing their job properly, and I doubt they would be allowed to attack US-allied targets.
- Apocryphon 8y agoI know that the novelty of Buzzfeed delivering hard-hitting journalism has been known for the last three or so years already, but this is one hell of a heavy subject for them to be reporting on.
- BaldricksGhost 8y agoThis is not the Buzzfeed of old. This story is something you'd expect from the NY Times or the Washington Post.
- cocacola1 8y agoI believe the difference is this is BuzzFeed News, not BuzzFeed. BuzzFeed News, from what I understand, is fairly solid. BuzzFeed itself keeps the lights on, because hard hitting news doesn't.
- swagtricker 8y agoWhat the hell?! Isn't this what we pay the CIA for? I mean seriously, what are my black-ops tax dollars funding these days?
- dragonwriter 8y ago> What the hell?! Isn't this what we pay the CIA for? No, we don't pay the CIA to fight UAEs wars. I mean, sometimes that happens, but it's not their central function. > I mean seriously, what are my black-ops tax dollars funding these days? Presumably, unless you are a UAE taxpayer, not this, except perhaps very indirectly.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- entropie 8y agoAnd the CIA pays the mercs or the people that pay the mercs.
- Nasrudith 8y agoIntelligence agents try to use proxies whenever possible - local assets are deniable, blend better, know less, and are more expendible.
- cwkoss 8y ago> what are my black-ops tax dollars funding these days? Domestic propaganda
- jsoc815 8y agoWell done, cwkoss. Well done. That is all.
- arminiusreturns 8y agoThis is one of the reasons I refused to become a merc after the Corps. I knew guys that were getting payed 160k tax free for this type of stuff, but there was always something deep inside that told me it would not be worth it and that it conflicted with my dedication to the principles of the constitution. I'm glad I stayed away. Eventually the merc business was saturated and the pay dropped dramatically anyway.
- ttul 8y agoHmm. SDE at Facebook for $250K, or life-risking merc in Yemen for $160K albeit tax free. Tough call.
- booleandilemma 8y agoBetter dating prospects for the merc though.
- tdb7893 8y agoIn all seriousness is dating as a software engineer difficult? I would've thought that with the money and consistent free time it wouldn't be that bad.
- blattimwind 8y agoIt is not.
- 1337biz 8y agoIn this world there are hunters and farmers.
- scythe 8y agoIt depends on your personality, cultural background/preferences, and lifestyle as well as the more traditional factors like appearance, race, height, etc. Some kinds of people like to date "techies", but other kinds of people don't. But you personally may feel more compatible with someone in the second category, which can be frustrating. For many software engineers, dating can be very easy; for others, not so easy. (NB. Bay Area perspective.)
- paganel 8y agoCan't say how good or bad those mercenaries were but I can definitely say that the info coming from the UAE intelligence services was dog-s.it. For instance, they were not even able to correctly spell the name of the Toyota Hilux, they mis-spelled it as "Haloux" (?!?). (https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2018-10/15/15/asset/buzzfeed-prod-web-01/sub-buzz-10774-1539633470-14.jpg?downsize=800:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2018-10/15/1...) I'm pretty sure that an intelligence-gathering organization that cannot spell/remember the name of one of the most used Toyota models in the Middle East is not good at providing correct geo-coordinates or the target's meeting times.
- bilbo0s 8y ago>providing correct geo-coordinates or the target's meeting times... Something tells me the intelligence people in the UAE were only relaying that information, not providing it. Anyone who thinks no other intelligence agencies were involved in this is being willfully naive.
- paganel 8y agoI agree with that, but apparently they're not even able to correctly copy a 5-letter word, I'd say that relaying sensitive info (like the location of an assassination target) is a little more prone to making errors. Plus, the article mentions that at the beginning the mercenaries were given totally inadequate weapons, I find that's kind of related to the organizational mess.
- empath75 8y agoIt’s a transliteration from Arabic.
- paganel 8y agoApparently they also transliterated the meeting hour of their target’s wrong.
- nwatson 8y ago>>> If the [American] mercenaries had killed a civilian in the street, who would have even investigated? Like what?... is the U.S. government the ultimate arbiter of actions of Americans overseas? Like is there no "local" rule of law? Clearly the jurisdiction is the country where assassinations and collateral damage occur. The country may have inadequate resources to investigate and prosecute, or may not have the "moral standing" to do so adequately, but quit the American myopia already. What a stupid question.
- varenc 8y agoActually, the USA claims “extraterritorial jurisdiction” on some laws concerning citizens. It's a crime for a US citizen to commit murder out of the country. The situations this comes up seem rare, but it happens. The mercenaries in this article got UAE military ranks explicitly to avoid this. Another instance that sadly comes up more often is sexual offenses involving children. If you engage in child prostitution in a foreign country even where it's “legal”/illegal-but-not-enforced you can be prosecuted and jailed on your return to the US. Collecting evidence for these extraterritorial offenses must be harder though. Would be interesting if these offenses can even be used for extradition. Some links: https://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/08/us/us-is-now-pursuing-americans-who-commit-sex-crimes-overseas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/08/us/us-is-now-pursuing-ame... https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/citizens-guide-us-federal-law-extraterritorial-sexual-exploitation-children https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/citizens-guide-us-fede... 18 U.S.C. §956 - “Conspiracy to kill, kidnap, maim, or injure persons or damage property in a foreign country” - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/956 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/956
- mywittyname 8y agoAlso bribery.
- skeptic_69 8y agoonly tangentially related but I have always thought that Executive Outcomes is such an ominous and great name..
- smsm42 8y agoI'm not sure what is particularly surprising in this article. Surely if somebody is working as a warrior for hire, than people would hire them to do warrior stuff. Is the point here that the particular mercs are ex-US Army soldiers? In this case, I wonder if one has acquired a particular set of skills (yeah, I know, the movie reference) in the Army, and wants to monetize them in civilian market, what would be the better option? I mean, assassinations of course is not a good way of earning money, and certainly immoral in most cases, but as you can, regrettably, expect a certain number of trained software security professionals to become criminals, so you can expect from warfare specialists? Is there any way around it?
- sorokod 8y agoThat is some laid back attitude to murder. Are you also cool with the "warriors" "monetizing" their skills in the US " civilian market" ?
- smsm42 8y ago> That is some laid back attitude to murder. No, I specifically pointed out it being immoral, and criminal. Though being engaged in war or warlike scenarios, one can expect that certain situations would require confrontation that ultimately can get people killed. This is what happens in war. This is why armies exist. And if it's legitimate for US Army, why isn't it legitimate for UAE Army? And if certain person can kill other people under the star-spangled banner, why the same person can't do it under other flags? Of course there are unjust wars, but I don't see how anything changes whether it's under US flag or UAE flag. > Are you also cool with the "warriors" "monetizing" their skills in the US "civilian market" ? Depends on how they monetize them. If it's a justified self-defense (e.g. somebody tries to assassinate a prominent political figure, her security detail reacts and kills the assassin) - sure, if it's aggression (somebody hires ex-military to assassinate a prominent political figure) - not so much.
- knodi123 8y ago> Is the point here that the particular mercs are ex-US Army soldiers? of course not. it's pretty straightforward. the point is that these were assassinations. We're comfortable with mercs doing things like "defend a convoy", "defend a target", "eliminate all hostiles in an area", etc. that's a FAR cry from "make this man die. we won't say why, but here's the address of his mosque, and if you want to blow up his whole workplace, that's fine."
- 40acres 8y agoSnake wasn't lying when he said "War has changed". Mercenaries are as old as war itself but this type of operation seems like its on a completely different level. Post WW2 it seems like most conflicts are being fought via guerrilla warfare. When you have a theatre of war that essentially a couple of rural provinces having some skilled American soldiers with a decade of experience of war seems highly valuable.
- ilamont 8y agoThe team began to develop what Gilmore called “esprit de corps.” They flew a makeshift flag featuring a skull and crossed swords — a kind of Jolly Roger on a black background — and painted that emblem onto their military vehicles and their living quarters. Sounds like something a bunch of teenagers would do after reading Soldier of Fortune magazine, but these are grown, highly trained professional soldiers without any real oversight, or, it seems, moral compass. If you have 30 minutes, read "The Crimes of SEAL Team 6" (1). It goes very much against the "good guys" media narrative that emerged after the OBL raid and Captain Phillips rescue. Many members have joined such elite units for noble reasons and served with honor, but there is also an undercurrent of savage brutality in some units that was not only tolerated, but even encouraged: Some of those photographs, especially those taken of casualties from 2005 through 2008, show deceased enemy combatants with their skulls split open by a rifle or pistol round at the upper forehead, exposing their brain matter. The foreign fighters who suffered these V-shaped wounds were either killed in battle and later shot at close range or finished off with a security round while dying. Among members of SEAL Team 6, this practice of desecrating enemy casualties was called “canoeing.” The canoeing photos are dramatic documentary evidence of the extreme and unnecessary violence that began to occur during multiple high-risk, exhausting, and traumatizing tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan. “There is and was no military reason whatsoever to split someone’s skull open with a single round,” said a former SEAL Team 6 leader. “It’s sport.” The former SEAL Team 6 leader said that he first noticed canoeing in 2004, and that it does occur accidentally on the battlefield, but rarely. He said canoeing became “big” in 2007. “I’d look through the post-op photos and see multiple canoes on one objective, several times a deployment,” the retired SEAL said. When SEAL Team 6 operators were occasionally confronted about the desecration, the SEAL leader said, they’d often joke that they were just “great shots.” ... During the first deployments in both Iraq and Afghanistan, it was common practice to take fingers, scalp, or skin from slain enemy combatants for identification purposes. One former SEAL Team 6 leader told me that he feared the practice would lead to members of the unit using the DNA samples as an excuse to mutilate and desecrate the dead. By 2007, when Howard and Red Squadron showed up with their hatchets in Iraq, internal reports of operators using the weapons to hack dead and dying militants were provided to both the commanding officer of SEAL Team 6 at that time, Capt. Scott Moore, and his deputy, Capt. Tim Szymanski. Howard, who declined to answer questions from The Intercept, rallied his SEALs and others before missions and deployments by telling them to “bloody the hatchet.” One SEAL I spoke with said that Howard’s words were meant to be inspirational, like those of a coach, and were not an order to use the hatchets to commit war crimes. Others were much more critical. Howard was often heard asking his operators whether they’d gotten “blood on your hatchet” when they returned from a deployment. Howard’s distribution of the hatchets worried several senior SEAL Team 6 members and some CIA paramilitary officers who worked with his squadron. https://theintercept.com/2017/01/10/the-crimes-of-seal-team-6/ https://theintercept.com/2017/01/10/the-crimes-of-seal-team-...
- CobrastanJorji 8y agoI have no idea what the laws are around this. If the US military offers me, a civilian, $10,000 to murder some guy in Syria, and I do it, and it comes to light, should I expect to get sued? Prosecuted? Am I protected by any treaties?
- varenc 8y agoAssuming you’re not actually in the military...if there was sufficient evidence I believe you could get prosecuted on your return to the US. The mercenaries in the article got UAE military ranks to avoid this. 18 U.S.C. §956 - “Conspiracy to kill, kidnap, maim, or injure persons or damage property in a foreign country” - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/956 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/956 Conversely, if you’re a foreign citizen but you murder a US citizen while abroad, that’s a crime in the US and you’d be jailed if they could ever get you here. 18 U.S.C. §1119 - “Foreign murder of United States nationals” - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1119 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1119
- jpatokal 8y agoThe US military has plenty of professionals for this kind of thing. The grey area here is other countries hiring US civilians, particularly when they're notionally inducted into the other country's armed forces (= no longer civilians) and the murder happens in a theater of war.
- mjevans 8y ago"Spear Operations Group, according to three sources, arranged for the UAE to give military rank to the Americans involved in the mission, which might provide them legal cover." "Aside from moral objections, for-profit targeted assassinations add new dilemmas to modern warfare. Private mercenaries operate outside the US military’s chain of command, so if they make mistakes or commit war crimes, there is no clear system for holding them accountable. If the mercenaries had killed a civilian in the street, who would have even investigated?" In this case the questions have easy answers. Some country recognized the individuals as having a rank in their military, and they were on a mission sanctioned by that country. Thus it is the same as if any other soldier from that country had committed such actions (accident, target, otherwise). However that does highlight other questions. What is a country? What is the distinction between warriors: * for a country in an official capacity? * Is an external entity fulfilling an official contract acting in such a capacity? (Historically, yes) * for a country in a resistance capacity? * for an entity not recognized as a country in any possible capacities? * fighting for their own sense of honor/justice? In the easy cases it might be possible to judge the relative morally correct side by the actions of those involved. In an absolute sense if all were to suddenly act in ways perceived as good and respectful that would be good overall. In another the minimum required force to remove the unjust from the power to inflict that upon others would also be justice. Yet it is also important to ask why they have this power and are tolerated; solving those issues is surely the longer term justice.
- jstanley 8y ago> In the easy cases it might be possible to judge the relative morally correct side by the actions of those involved. In fact this is extremely easy. Any person who murdered another person has done an immoral action, no matter how many layers of bureaucracy it's been dressed up in.
- borski 8y agoAre you advocating for the military to not exist?
- 8y ago
- fapjacks 8y agoNo. This is bullshit. I am telling you, from personal experience, that there are claims in this article that are completely bullshit, and stand out as being completely bullshit. Whoever this "journalist" is writing about has sold Buzzfeed quite a cool story, bro. I'm not doubting that assassinations are carried out by mercenaries, which is not even a little bit unusual historically. I only skimmed the last third of the article because it's such outlandishly bad and wholly unbelievable storytelling. And as someone that spent more than a couple of years looking at the universe through black hot thermal, something about that footage is not quite right. I could spend hours unraveling the tall tale Buzzfeed has spun here for you all today. Just a few of the claims that are outright false or smack heavily of exaggerated bullshit: "... the US doesn’t ban mercenaries. And with some exceptions, it is perfectly legal to serve in foreign militaries, whether one is motivated by idealism or money. With no legal consequences ..." False. Totally false. You jeopardize your American citizenship by serving in a foreign military ranked as an NCO or above. It is the exception to do this without huge problems and not the norm. For example serving in the IDF as part of your Return. I know because I personally had an offer to join an allied European military in order to take a teaching position at their infantry school. And the US government is putting people in jail that went to fight in Syria and Iraq with e.g. PKK. "If the [reserve special forces] soldiers are not on active duty, he added, they are not obligated to report what they’re doing." 100% false. You need a waiver signed by your chain of command (up through battalion commander) to do anything remotely like this, which would absolutely need to be approved, taking security contractor work like this, overseas. You absolutely are obligated not just to report to your chain of command but to get a waiver. I know because I personally have friends that did contracting work while in the guard, and I know the hoops they had to jump through. "During a live-fire training mission he led, back in his Navy days, he says he accidentally shot another SEAL." You couldn't "choose to leave the Navy" after that. This would be a huge fucking problem. Probably a discharge. Possibly jail time. "the number of special operations forces has more than doubled since 9/11, from 33,000 to 70,000. That’s a vast pool of crack soldiers selected, trained, and combat-tested by the most elite units of the US military" Seventy thousand maybe if you include all of the REMF POGs doing paperwork, but nobody could reasonably call these people "crack soldiers" and compare them to an 18B. It looks like Buzzfeed as been Buzzfed. Somebody sold them a story that is almost certainly equal parts unbelievable exaggeration and complete and total bullshit. And even if the footage is real -- and I do not believe it is 100% genuine -- they're deliberately zooming in on the area where the "mercenary" is firing his weapon in order to obscure what appear to be rounds landing at his feet. It looks like he's provoked into firing. Do not believe anything these people are telling you. It is almost certainly invented for clicks or some other reason.
- AcerbicZero 8y agoHaving spent several years deployed to the Middle East stories like this always seem to be somewhat difficult to navigate. I seriously considered going back overseas as a contractor (IT) after my deployments, but in the end it just wasn't a good fit for me. In this case, it looks like the problem here is that the UAE wants to pay someone to kill "terrorists" for them, and the US is either ignoring, or somewhat supporting, the conflict in Yemen. There isn't an easy solution to that problem, but a good start IMO would be to get the US out of the ME political games, because no one is innocent in those.
- afroboy 8y agoWho define terrorists? you? if you ever seen what happen in Yemen is definitely UAE and Saudi are the terrorists.
- pmorici 8y agoIt sounds like the main source of this story is the owner of the private mercenary company. It seems like he thinks publicizing his teams actions will some how drum up business.
- ajmurmann 8y agoWhy do we tolerate mercenaries at all? Obvious moral issues aside they also shrink our much cheaper pool of soldiers. Shouldn't any government strongly deter its citizens from doing mercenary work? As a civilian I don't want to encounter people like this on my daily life. If want them locked up like any other murderer.
- soared 8y agoHow are mercenaries different than regular soldiers? One is directly employed by the government, one is contracted by the government. Other commenters here have shown the contractors are nearly entirely defensive anyways.
- ajmurmann 8y agoEconomically: we pay soldiers comparatively little. Not sure if that's good or bad but it's certainly different for mercenaries. Morally: it's different to kill because you volunteered to defend your country than because you need some money.
- 3131s 8y ago> Other commenters here have shown the contractors are nearly entirely defensive anyways. Please prove this.
- qiqing 8y agoExcerpt from the end of the article: > For his part, Gilmore said he “would have preferred that this stay off the radar.” But he decided to speak to BuzzFeed News because “once this comes out there’s no way that I’m going to stay out of it, so I’d prefer to own it. And I’m not going to try to hide from what I did.” > “It’s still,” he said, “some variety of the future of warfare.” > Gilmore is out of the mercenary business. He has since found himself in another gray-zone line of work, albeit one that’s far less dangerous. He said he’s with a California company that plans to make cannabis oil for vaporizers.
- anon49124 8y agoTerms like "democracy" and "peace process" have different meanings: one to you-and-I, and another to the diplomacy corps. To diplomats, these terms usually mean "whatever America wants" because it has, traditionally, had the global, neocolonial power to tell most other countries, in many (but not all) contexts, what to do in the international order. When news reports mention these "dog-whistle" or vague terms, consider that they have alternate meanings that aren't made clear by most journalists.
- pytyper2 8y agoOf course, why would we outsource something that sensitive?
- vectorEQ 8y agohow is this news?
- baud147258 8y agoI found funny to see that link right in the middle of the article: https://bzfd.it/mercenaries https://bzfd.it/mercenaries