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Except China can't be measured in the same terms that a Western economy can be. The US can't just decide to forget all of it's debt, in the way China can given

Except China can't be measured in the same terms that a Western economy can be. The US can't just decide to forget all of it's debt, in the way China can given they have a command economy with the government playing a role in every business. Communist parties have nationalized entire economies in the past, and to suggest they won't do the same again is ignoring many of the actions that Xi Jinping has taken to bring back Marxist thought into the country. Should the CCP decide to reset all debt, they could likely get away with it through measures that insure a lack of debt collection doesn't cause a dominoeing effect.

jhabdas 8y ago
Communism... what's that? They're a Democratic Republic with a Constitution and a Bill of Rights.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  On paper, yes. In practice, no. A one-party "democratic republic" is not a democratic republic. A country that's doing what China is doing in Xinjiang to the Uighurs isn't a country with a bill of rights that matters. I'll agree that China is not at the moment particularly communist/marxist. That doesn't make them a democracy.
- amphibian87 8y ago
  A democratic republic with a president for life? They're communist.
- trepanne 8y ago
  > They're a Democratic Republic with a Constitution and a Bill of Rights. You seem to be unaware of the role of the Communist Party in Chinese government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China Xi is currently consolidating power into more of a straight dictatorship, though. It's pretty interesting to watch.
adventured 8y ago
China can and should be measured by the same terms as Western economies, they're bound by the same constraints. There's nothing literally magical about China and their government isn't omnipotent, no more than the Soviets were. The primary debt problem in the US, is the public debt of the US Government. The US Govt can decide to 'forget' their debt, they're going to use inflation to do it over time (that is, quantitative easing, debt monetization). US Government debt will increasingly be held internally as a percentage, as it expands by $700b-$1t per year. There are no external buyers for that much debt and they can't afford the high interest rates it will take to attract that much private capital over time (it'd rapidly swamp the US budget), only the Fed will be able to keep up with it. They'll follow the Japan recipe, holding rates artificially low perpetually to keep debt cheap, while debasing the dollar to stealth default on the debt in order to reduce its real value vs the economy and government finances. That's how Western nations forget their debts.
- mempko 8y ago
  > The primary debt problem in the US, is the public debt of the US Government. This is absolutely false. The US has been in debt it's entire existence. Debt is a problem for the private sector, not the public sector. Why? Because the debt the US is denominated in dollars, which it has the sole ability to create. Imagine a household with the same power, let's say you "adventured" are able to print "adventure dollars". When you give out these adventure dollars, you run a deficit of X adventure dollars. You are now X dollars in "debt". That's exactly how public debt is measured. It's silly to think the US could not pay any debt denominated in dollars.
fiter 8y ago
Who will have to take the loss on the canceled debt? Who lent the money?
woodandsteel 8y ago
>Communist parties have nationalized entire economies in the past, and to suggest they won't do the same again is ignoring many of the actions that Xi Jinping has taken to bring back Marxist thought into the country. Yes, he could do that, but the problem is that state-capitalist economies do poorly in the modern world. That's why Dung Xiaoping abandoned Maoism and turned to the free market in the first place.
- mempko 8y ago
  All capitalist economies are State Capitalist economies. A free-market capitalist economy is a fiction.
  - woodandsteel 8y ago
    That's utter nonsense. Are you claiming that in the US today, Trump or his subordinates decides exactly what will be produced and who will be the heads of all enterprises, like was the case of, for instance, Stalin and Soviet Union? By the way, the term "state capitalism" was invented to communicate that the economy in the Soviet Union was radically different from either a free market economy or the anarchistic, democratic socialist economy that the Bolscheviks had promised.

jhabdas 8y ago

Communism... what's that? They're a Democratic Republic with a Constitution and a Bill of Rights.

AnimalMuppet 8y ago
On paper, yes. In practice, no. A one-party "democratic republic" is not a democratic republic. A country that's doing what China is doing in Xinjiang to the Uighurs isn't a country with a bill of rights that matters. I'll agree that China is not at the moment particularly communist/marxist. That doesn't make them a democracy.
amphibian87 8y ago
A democratic republic with a president for life? They're communist.
trepanne 8y ago
> They're a Democratic Republic with a Constitution and a Bill of Rights. You seem to be unaware of the role of the Communist Party in Chinese government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China Xi is currently consolidating power into more of a straight dictatorship, though. It's pretty interesting to watch.

adventured 8y ago

China can and should be measured by the same terms as Western economies, they're bound by the same constraints. There's nothing literally magical about China and their government isn't omnipotent, no more than the Soviets were. The primary debt problem in the US, is the public debt of the US Government. The US Govt can decide to 'forget' their debt, they're going to use inflation to do it over time (that is, quantitative easing, debt monetization). US Government debt will increasingly be held internally as a percentage, as it expands by $700b-$1t per year. There are no external buyers for that much debt and they can't afford the high interest rates it will take to attract that much private capital over time (it'd rapidly swamp the US budget), only the Fed will be able to keep up with it. They'll follow the Japan recipe, holding rates artificially low perpetually to keep debt cheap, while debasing the dollar to stealth default on the debt in order to reduce its real value vs the economy and government finances. That's how Western nations forget their debts.

mempko 8y ago
> The primary debt problem in the US, is the public debt of the US Government. This is absolutely false. The US has been in debt it's entire existence. Debt is a problem for the private sector, not the public sector. Why? Because the debt the US is denominated in dollars, which it has the sole ability to create. Imagine a household with the same power, let's say you "adventured" are able to print "adventure dollars". When you give out these adventure dollars, you run a deficit of X adventure dollars. You are now X dollars in "debt". That's exactly how public debt is measured. It's silly to think the US could not pay any debt denominated in dollars.

fiter 8y ago

Who will have to take the loss on the canceled debt? Who lent the money?

woodandsteel 8y ago

>Communist parties have nationalized entire economies in the past, and to suggest they won't do the same again is ignoring many of the actions that Xi Jinping has taken to bring back Marxist thought into the country. Yes, he could do that, but the problem is that state-capitalist economies do poorly in the modern world. That's why Dung Xiaoping abandoned Maoism and turned to the free market in the first place.

mempko 8y ago
All capitalist economies are State Capitalist economies. A free-market capitalist economy is a fiction.
- woodandsteel 8y ago
  That's utter nonsense. Are you claiming that in the US today, Trump or his subordinates decides exactly what will be produced and who will be the heads of all enterprises, like was the case of, for instance, Stalin and Soviet Union? By the way, the term "state capitalism" was invented to communicate that the economy in the Soviet Union was radically different from either a free market economy or the anarchistic, democratic socialist economy that the Bolscheviks had promised.