49 ms·
The Macbook Pro chassis before the OLED touchstrip. I'm a web developer and learned on MBPs. The touchpad was the right size, the keys had the right amount of t
by wishinghand 8y ago
The Macbook Pro chassis before the OLED touchstrip. I'm a web developer and learned on MBPs. The touchpad was the right size, the keys had the right amount of travel, the form factor and weight were perfect.
Right now I'm considering moving to developing on a Galaga Pro and using Windows/WSL. I've got most things setup on my desktop how I like using HyperTerm (I had too much trouble with Cmder), VS Code, and ZSH. I can't seem to figure out how to install PHP 7.2 correctly to work on Laravel, nor get my GPG and SSH keys for Github working.
The bright side is if I move to Windows I wouldn't have to give up very many programs, or they have some rough but useable equivalents (Spectacle, Sequel Pro, Gifox, Bear).
I was tempted to go with Elementary on the Razer Blade Stealth, but I still want 32gb of RAM, and Propellerheads Reason doesn't work on Linux.
- ramses0 8y agoWSL is terrible. It's basically a tech demo (look up what happens if you `cp` a file from `C:\...` to `/home/user` versus `copy` or going the other direction. It's alright to boot up a linux "VM" using docker, but then you have to pay extra for windows pro or whatever so you can unlock hypervisor privileges. I recently bought an extra SSD to put into the windows desktop I bought and am happily running linux, don't miss windows since I put it on there (even some steam games are quite nice and convenient). Anyway, just look into WSL before you bet the farm on it.
- dcow 8y agoInteresting... I haven’t had any issues using WSL recently (since they fixed the networking stack).
- waterhouse 8y agoI tried WSL briefly and discovered that the overhead of forking processes is annoyingly high, just like when I'd used cygwin in the past. (Maybe I should have expected that, but...) Try doing something like: time for i in $(seq 1 100); do /bin/pwd; done | wc Compare on Linux (or even Mac OS) vs WSL. I was disappointed.
- zerkten 8y agoDid you report this as an issue? They seem to be fairly responsive to feedback. Would be interesting to see what their take is.
- llampx 8y agoI believe Windows Defender is responsible for a lot of the IO overhead within WSL. You can get around that by marking your development directory as "don't scan" within Defender.
- Goz3rr 8y agoI don't see the issue with this, they clearly warn you not to modify the WSL filesystem from Windows because you'll break it: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2016/11/17/do-not-change-linux-files-using-windows-apps-and-tools/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2016/11/17/do-n... They advertise it as being useful for development work, and it perfectly fulfills that purpose for me
- owenwil 8y agoI use it daily with zero issues. I don't know why people keep perpetuating this, but it works great, as if it were native.
- H1Supreme 8y agoSame. I've found it to be really great overall. The default colors are basically unusable (looking at you, blue), but the functionality leaves little to be desired.
- WorldMaker 8y agoThe Command Line team recently updated the default colors (especially a less terrible blue), but unfortunately it doesn't auto-apply to existing profiles for backwards compatibility concern reasons. Highly recommend grabbing the ColorTool and updating to the new colors if you get a chance. https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/08/02/updating-the-windows-console-colors/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/08/02/upda... https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/08/11/introducing-the-windows-console-colortool/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/08/11/intr...
- jes5199 8y agohuh. I tried to run our rails app in WSL, and it was so slow that it was unusable
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- kiksy 8y agoI too use it daily on multiple machines (albeit Windows Pro with Hyper-V) and it's changed my day to day dev work dramatically. Combined with Docker there is no reason for me to even look at MacOS or running Linux natively (which I have done before for years.) For me it's the best thing to come out of Microsoft in a long time.
- qorrect 8y ago> For me it's the best thing to come out of Microsoft in a long time. Agreed, I think it's an amazing feature. Have been a full time linux user for 20 years, my new laptop is BIOS locked ( ugh ) so I _cant_ install linux ( didnt know that before buying it ) , but it's actually not an issue because of WSL, it's exactly what I always wanted in Windows.
- Infernal 8y agoWhat laptop is it? Was it part of an OEM sort of purchase through an employer, or something consumer off-the-shelf?
- geekbird 8y agoPlease name and shame the brand, so we can avoid it. A BIOS that prevents you from installing Linux should be illegal IMO. When my Windows laptops get too old and slow for the latest Windows plus patches, I get another 3 to 5 years of life out of them by installing Linux. I still have a little Dell laptop that I first put into service in 2004 as a Windows box, converted it to Linux in 2009, and it still runs.
- overcast 8y agoI moved my development side to WSL on the PC after giving up hope that Apple is ever going to replace my 2008 MacPro tower. The experience has essentially been flawless, and I'd consider it basically magic on how well it works. Best of both worlds. Any future Apple is just going to be whatever is cheapest as a daily driver, while the PC is going to handle heavy lifting from now on (Gaming, Development, Editing).
- DeepWorker 8y agoI'm a grad student and I'm using WSL for working on coding assignments. The only gripe I have is that it doesn't support launching IDEs (or any GUI applications for that matter) yet. You can jump through hoops by using an Xserver to connect to WSL but I haven't tried that out.
- bfrydl 8y agoThis is not accurate. I used WSL professionally for 2 years until recently switching back to Linux for unrelated reasons¹. The only issue I have had with WSL is filesystem performance. However, that is largely a result of the real-time virus protection in Windows Defender. Real-time protection is practically useless and slows down the rest of your computer as well, so disabling it is a pretty easy fix. WSL is actually a fantastic piece of software. I can't believe how easy it is to install literal Arch Linux onto my Windows machine. It's also fairly simple these days to integrate VS Code with it. ¹ I've gradually lost enough vision in both eyes that I frequently lose track of the mouse cursor, so I switched to Linux for i3wm and better keyboard controls. Otherwise I would likely still be using Windows + WSL.
- geuis 8y agoCompletely agree. Just started at a company about a month ago and was given a 2017 MacBook Pro. After 2 weeks of hating the entire experience (keyboard and touchbar) I asked for an older 2015 machine. Got it, much better now.
- tannhaeuser 8y agoI just opted for an Ubuntu notebook in exchange for a MBP. At my new gig they let you choose between a MBP and a Thinkpad 470 (with two monitors each), and I think Ubuntu is WAY better for development. Saying this as someone who used Macs from 2003-2015 almost exclusively.
- fishtoaster 8y agoI hear ya. I just payed $600 to get the top case replaced on my mid-2014 mbp. With any luck that'll buy me another year or two of good use out of this thing because there's very little compelling about the new models. I wouldn't mind 32gb of faster ram and a slight CPU boost, but not at the cost of a worse, more error-prone keyboard with no hardware escape button and an awkwardly large trackpad. I'm sure I could get used to all of those things eventually, but ideally there are more things in a new laptop that I want than things I have to get used to.
- function_seven 8y agoApple has ditched so many cool things in the MacBook line. 1) MagSafe. I know they really want to go all in on USB-C, but the original MagSafe connector was awesome. Even the weaker 2.0 version was nice. There were two instances where that connector saved my laptop. 2) The laser-drilled power indicator. That was so cool. It looked like the light magically appeared through the aluminum. Now there's no indication whatsoever if your laptop is on or asleep or off. 3) The 2007-2011 keyboards. The ones with the real travel. Even the 2012 version with slightly reduced travel was okay. But my 2007 MacBook had the best laptop keyboard I'd ever used. 4) HDMI and SD Card slot. These are the kinds of things that you happen to need when you least expect it. When you're least likely to have that dongle with you. They're also thin ports that will fit nicely without bulking up the chassis. 5) Of course, function keys and an ESC key. I'm going to keep my 2012 MBP going as long as I can. But when it dies or is no longer supported, I'm pretty sure ThinkPad is where I'm headed.
- wishinghand 8y agoI forgot to list magsafe as one of those awesome things that was lost. I could take or leave the power indicator but it was kind of cool. It's such a no brainer that I'm surprised it's not been copied. Apple must have patented it too well.
- disillusioned 8y agoMy understanding was that they purchased the company that specialized in the laser perforation and all of the proprietary equipment required to make the metal thin enough for the light to shine through, which is a big part of the reason we haven't seen it elsewhere. And yeah, probably IP too.
- KozmoNau7 8y agoBang & Olufsen have the same thing on some of their products, as does Koenigsegg for the center console in their cars.
- treffer 8y ago
- Boulth 8y ago> nor get my GPG and SSH keys for Github working. This definitely works, I've used it back in the day (needs "enable-ssh" in config).
- wishinghand 8y agoGood to know. I was following instructions for Windows on Github and just felt ultra dense as it kept not working.
- infogulch 8y agoI always just installed git for Windows and put keys in my user\.ssh folder and that's worked for me for as long as I can remember. What issues is everyone having? Am I just missing something?
- Boulth 8y agoThey are using GPG Authentication subkeys for SSH. I have them on a smartcard and it works really well (you can also connect Yubikey 4C to Android via OpenKeychain and login to servers using Termbot on the go using hardware stored keys - secure and convenient!).
- infogulch 8y agoAh so I'm just much more cavalier with my ssh keys. The 4C looks interesting though, thanks for the recommendation!
- Boulth 8y agoNowadays it's probably 5C, or 5 if you need USB-A connector. An added benefit of Yubikey backed keys is touch to use so that you need to physically touch the token to use the key. A critical matter when using ForwardAgent! [0]: https://developers.yubico.com/PGP/Card_edit.html https://developers.yubico.com/PGP/Card_edit.html
- 8y ago
- radley 8y agoI'll just add: 17" MBP...
- ChristianGeek 8y agoA lighter version with a retina screen, updated internals, and 2015 MBP style keyboard? Yes, please!
- ReverseCold 8y agoFor Laravel development on Windows, use https://laragon.org/ https://laragon.org/
- wishinghand 8y agoThanks for this. I'll check it out.
- vijayp 8y agoThe design is terrible. I never use the touchpad for anything regular keys wouldn't do better. The keyboard on my 2017 MBP13 failed three times in the year I've owned it. The first time, the Apple Store person "cleaned" the keyboard, fixed things for a while. A couple of weeks later, the problem came back. I insisted on a better solution, and they replaced the keyboard. Five months later, a different key failed, and the Apple Store people sent it to Memphis. This time, it came back with one of the "new and improved" keyboards. They also replaced the screen because of 'delamination' which I hadn't noticed. The total amount they spent to repair this computer is approaching the cost of the machine at this point! So far, the new keyboard hasn't failed yet but I'm not holding my breath…
- smohare 8y agoI personally find function keys useless (I’m mostly in Vim and map things to leader + mnemonic key sequences), so the Touch Bar tends to offer more value for things like media control. It really boils down to personal use, rather than a fundamentally flawed design.
- fiddlerwoaroof 8y agoYeah, I’ve been interested in the touchbar as a way to get emacs-mode-specific shortcut keys.
- nexensis 8y agoI had a similar experience with a top spec late 2016 MBP, which I switched to from a PC for web development. It was my first and last Apple product. After opening the lid one day there was a loud crackling noise and the speakers were both blown. To repair it, the Apple store had to replace the entire top case (top half of the chassis including keyboard, trackpad, speakers) and also replaced the battery, which would have cost ~£500. I got it back two weeks later after dealing with a smug 'Genius' who treated me like an idiot. He also claimed that the software diagnostics were clean, so there was nothing wrong with the laptop. I had to drive 1 1/2 hours each way to the store for a second time during business hours just to argue in person with them, because the speakers were clearly broken. The exact same problem happened twice more over the next year, taking two weeks to fix each time. The final time was outside of the 1yr AppleCare warranty, and they wanted to replace the top case, battery and logic board for ~£800. Coupled with the useless touch bar, 16GM RAM cap, awful display scaling issues/confusion when external monitors were attached, sluggish performance for video editing and OS updates that broke the machine, it convinced me to avoid Apple products completely. I got a full £3100 refund after 18 months under EU consumer law and build a powerful desktop PC (16 core ThreadRipper, 32GB RAM, 1080ti) with £1500 left over.
- markatkinson 8y agoYou should give Ubuntu an experimental try. I have only ever used Windows most my life, but for hobby projects I use Ubuntu/PopOS!. If you are doing Web development I highly recommend that over Windows. Just last night I tried to setup a Phoenix project on a fresh install of windows and after 5 hours I was still installing C++ build tools, setting up path variables etc etc. It honestly is a world of pain. I remember setting up the same project on Ubuntu in five minutes. Not to mention it is infinitely more responsive.
- wishinghand 8y agoI'm trying to eventually move to just a laptop with an eGPU as both my work and game machine. I'd love to ditch Windows for Linux now that Valve's Proton is a thing. However I've spent too much money on Propellerhead's Reason and its Rack Extensions to easily give it up. Bitwig and Ardour are of course 1st class choices for a digital audio workstation on Linux, but I just found out that VSTs are OS specific as well. No matter what I end up doing, I'll miss texting from my computer through iMessage.
- markatkinson 8y agoThat is exactly what I am doing. I just got an Aero 15 with a 1060gb, which I honestly think will suffice for most games I play. But if I ever get into more graphically demanding games I can hook up an eGPU and throw in a 1080Ti or something.
- smilesnd 8y agoThat might be true, but on the flip side I have had things go horribly wrong with ubuntu where it either took me more then half a day hacking away at it, or worse case I just reinstalled ubuntu all together. Bad upgrades that break dependencies, video card drivers failing in strange ways, a bad boot that just drops me in grub, and etc. I even jump ship on distos when they annoyed me so much I wanted them dead. I mainly run lubuntu for my desktop needs and every now and then I think gentoo wouldn't do this to me gentoo might take 3 days for a upgrade to complete, but it wouldn't fail me like lubuntu is right now. Plus systemd makes me scream at night.
- 8y ago
- kgc 8y agoWSL is very, very slow. Be warned.
- tonto 8y agoIt's really not slow, I use it for everyday work in webdev and I basically have very few complaints
- smilesnd 8y agoWith anything involving virtual hardware and such it is hit and miss across the board. Even if both your machines have 16GB doesn't mean your ram functions perfectly. I have a linux box that has a failing hard drive in it that causes the folder program to crash when it fails to read from it. If I didn't understand it was a failing hard drive issue I would either blame linux disto or the folder program.
- owenwil 8y agoI use it every day. It really is perfectly fine!
- lasagnaphil 8y agoYes, it felt quite slow in certain situations (the last time I’ve tried). Because the WSL works by emulating syscalls from Linux, anything related to I/O can be quite slow...
- orf 8y agoIt's not quite the same as emulation, and the overhead is less. It natively supports these syscalls, and in some cases the syscalls trigger the same code as their windows counterparts In others, like fork, entirely new and unique code is ran.
- KerrickStaley 8y agoI really like my Dell Precision 5520. They keyboard is a little inferior to Mac or ThinkPad, but in most other aspects there is good attention to detail, and it has good Linux drivers.
- kiksy 8y agoYou may have heard it before, but I would recommend using Docker over faffing about trying to install PHP etc on the host. For Laravel look into https://laradock.io/ https://laradock.io/ . Very simple to get a full environment setup. Looking into how Docker works properly takes some time, so there is some overhead with that, but being able to switch environments between projects, test upgrading libs etc and instantly being able to switch back has been a game changer for me.
- nailer 8y ago> Right now I'm considering moving to developing on a Galaga Pro and using Windows/WSL. I've got most things setup on my desktop how I like using HyperTerm (I had too much trouble with Cmder) Hyper's got a few critical bugs, and Cmd is just ConEmu). If you want iTerm2 like functionality on Windows, Terminus destroys Hyper, ConEmu, Alaciritty and everything else. https://github.com/mikemaccana/powershell-profile https://github.com/mikemaccana/powershell-profile
- noir_lord 8y agoMy recommendation would be a ThinkPad with Fedora. I have 32GB of RAM in mine and they are easy to open, service and upgrade :). I use both and the last year has been the single best year I've had with Linux in terms of 'it just works', before that I used Ubuntu and while it was generally fine I prefer Fedora. The cinnamon spin is superb and it makes windows 10 feel clunky by comparison on the daily usability.
- doktrin 8y agoAfter my 2017 mbp developed several concurrent issues (screen, keyboard, speakers) I switched back to running Ubuntu on a lenovo x model. I'm satisfied, honestly, and won't be returning to Apple until they veer off this almost comical form-over-function course they're on (and that frankly seems unlikely)
- tootie 8y agoI never liked Mac touchpads and hate even worse when Windows PCs copy them. Having left and right-click buttons is 1000x more ergonomic.
- IOT_Apprentice 8y agoThe PC implementations are really horrible. I have an HP Z Book 3 and the trackpad is unusable for me. I was desparate to get a mouse instead.
- chadash 8y agoIf you want 32gb of RAM, it's not an option, but I recently bought a Lenovo Carbon X1 laptop and it's really great [1]. I used to develop on a 2015 Macbook Pro, which was a fantastic computer, but I don't like the new ones as much. I've also used a 2017 Dell XPS 13 and it was good, but the Lenovo feels better to me. Things that make it great: 1) Slightly larger screen at 14" is very nice, but the overall computer is still lighter than a MBP. 2) Keyboard is fantastic 3) Build quality feels like it can hold up to more abuse than MBP or Dell XPS 4) Has USB-C ports, but also has old USB-A style ports, so no need for adapters. I dual boot with Windows and Linux. For better or worse, I still need to use Excel sometimes and LibreOffice's version doesn't cut it. The only thing I miss about macOS over Ubuntu is the ability to install Microsoft Office (without using Wine). [1] plug for Costco who sells a nicely loaded (i7 processor, 16gb RAM, 512GB hard drive) version for $1500, or $1400 on sale.
- rkangel 8y agoWould you not be better with a VM for Excel, if that's all you need Windows for? At a previous job I persuaded IT to build a Windows VM with all of their normal stuff in, so that I could boot Linux natively - it was a good way of working.
- pc86 8y ago> I can't seem to figure out how to install PHP 7.2 correctly to work on Laravel Overall probably a net benefit for society honestly, if it means less PHP in production. (I kid)
- thepratt 8y agoI would suggest using a docker image with a mounted volume for development - there are alternatives, vagrant being one of them. As your production server will _most likely_ be a flavour of linux, this can help weed out "works on my machine" issues.
- imlina 8y agoThe macbook pro 2018 keyboard makes me want to cry. My fingers don't flow the rate my brain does anymore :(
- nil_pointer 8y agoI completely agree about the 2015 gen MBP. Unfortunately the Galaga Pro is disappointing in it's own way: only 2-3 hours battery life.
- Ayesh 8y agoCheckout Laragon (laragon.org). It comes with php, nginx/Apache, mysql/mariadb, etc in a way that you can swap them out. Cmder is nicely integrated and the binaries can be added to PATH, so they will work in Cmder or a y other shell too.