4 ms·

Disclaimer up front: I work for a Tesla competitor, any opinions are solely my own. From the linked article: > "And now NHTSA testing shows that the #1, #2 an

by csours 8y ago

Disclaimer up front: I work for a Tesla competitor, any opinions are solely my own. From the linked article: > "And now NHTSA testing shows that the #1, #2 and #3 cars with the lowest likelihood of injury in a collision are the Tesla Models 3, X and S in that order." https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-model-3-nhtsa-safety-claims/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-model-3-nhtsa-safet... https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/national-highway-traffic-safety-administration-issues-statement-about-new-car https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/national-highway-traffi... > "NHTSA does not distinguish safety performance beyond that rating, thus there is no "safest" vehicle among those vehicles achieving 5-star ratings." Perhaps stop making claims that are not backed by the source you claim to use.

1123581321 8y ago
The CNET article you linked says: “Over email, a Tesla spokeswoman did offer more explanation on the probability-of-injury statistic. NHTSA compiles raw injury data in a load of spreadsheets every year, and it computes the overall probability of injury, listing it as a Vehicle Safety Score in its published results. That's where Tesla pulled the data from, and you can check this year's results for yourself on regulations.gov.” It seems that NHTSA is only disputing that they hand out an official “safest vehicle” rating, not that Tesla did that well in their data. I would say that the claim is backed up if going by the actual results and not the capped, publicized rating. I’m curious what you thought when you came across that part of the article.
- dwighttk 8y ago
  Man regulations.gov is a terrible site. The only document I could find that contained "vehicle safety score" was: https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=NHTSA-2015-0119-0001 https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=NHTSA-2015-0119-0001
  - csours 8y ago
    It's linked from the CNET article: https://www.regulations.gov/docket?D=NHTSA-2017-0037 https://www.regulations.gov/docket?D=NHTSA-2017-0037
- csours 8y ago
  Disclaimer again: These are solely my own opinions. > "I’m curious what you thought when you came across that part of the article." Several things: 1. I think Tesla vehicles are very safe. 2. I think there are several reasons NHTSA does not rank vehicles on safety. Also NHTSA specifically does not allow companies to claim a specific rank using NHTSA data. 3. I think not all real world factors may be accounted for in tests. 4. I think tests get harder over time, so Tesla is well prepared for future tests. 5. I think Tesla has a history of bending the rules in their press releases, including making other safety claims that are not supported by the agencies they quote. 6. I think with autonomous vehicles we will be able to log safety incidents per user-mile in various conditions and have really comparable data - and it's a shame we don't already have that. 7. The score mentioned is based on tests, not real world data. Without real world data, you can't say whether a vehicle is actually safe or not. I can't speak for NHTSA, but I feel that is their point of view.
goshx 8y ago
Thanks for the disclaimer. Obviously the NHTSA does not want the trouble, but the "lowest probability of injury" came from their tests. Apparently they were not supposed to make this public. Truth is, comparing the videos side by side with other 5 star rating vehicles it is pretty clear which one is safer.
- Latteland 8y ago
  I think the fair comparison is something like above a certain level nhtsa wants to say they are all good with little to distinguish them, but there are numeric differences. Like rating a moving from 1 to 5 stars. There is little discernable difference between a 4.8 and 4.9, but you could say "rated better than that 4.8 movie". I think tesla was the top on some numeric scale and nhtsa doesn't want to talk about small differences.
  - goshx 8y ago
    The thing is... the difference is significant. Check this video out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxw_LSPBlGo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxw_LSPBlGo There are many others. The current 5 star cars were the best available in the industry, but it does not mean that nothing significantly better can exist. Tesla is pushing the industry forward with this.
    - csours 8y ago
      Disclaimer again: solely my own opinions. This is where you have to consider the whole safety design. In the video, the pole does intrude into the cabin more on non-Tesla vehicles; however, that means that more (de)-acceleration is passed on to the occupants of the Tesla. That is the purpose of crush zones, and also why no-context footage of crash tests can be very misleading. Additionally, there are side curtain airbags that will deploy before the pole actually gets to where the occupants' head would be.

by csours 8y ago

1123581321 8y ago

The CNET article you linked says: “Over email, a Tesla spokeswoman did offer more explanation on the probability-of-injury statistic. NHTSA compiles raw injury data in a load of spreadsheets every year, and it computes the overall probability of injury, listing it as a Vehicle Safety Score in its published results. That's where Tesla pulled the data from, and you can check this year's results for yourself on regulations.gov.” It seems that NHTSA is only disputing that they hand out an official “safest vehicle” rating, not that Tesla did that well in their data. I would say that the claim is backed up if going by the actual results and not the capped, publicized rating. I’m curious what you thought when you came across that part of the article.

dwighttk 8y ago
Man regulations.gov is a terrible site. The only document I could find that contained "vehicle safety score" was: https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=NHTSA-2015-0119-0001 https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=NHTSA-2015-0119-0001
- csours 8y ago
  It's linked from the CNET article: https://www.regulations.gov/docket?D=NHTSA-2017-0037 https://www.regulations.gov/docket?D=NHTSA-2017-0037
csours 8y ago
Disclaimer again: These are solely my own opinions. > "I’m curious what you thought when you came across that part of the article." Several things: 1. I think Tesla vehicles are very safe. 2. I think there are several reasons NHTSA does not rank vehicles on safety. Also NHTSA specifically does not allow companies to claim a specific rank using NHTSA data. 3. I think not all real world factors may be accounted for in tests. 4. I think tests get harder over time, so Tesla is well prepared for future tests. 5. I think Tesla has a history of bending the rules in their press releases, including making other safety claims that are not supported by the agencies they quote. 6. I think with autonomous vehicles we will be able to log safety incidents per user-mile in various conditions and have really comparable data - and it's a shame we don't already have that. 7. The score mentioned is based on tests, not real world data. Without real world data, you can't say whether a vehicle is actually safe or not. I can't speak for NHTSA, but I feel that is their point of view.

goshx 8y ago

Thanks for the disclaimer. Obviously the NHTSA does not want the trouble, but the "lowest probability of injury" came from their tests. Apparently they were not supposed to make this public. Truth is, comparing the videos side by side with other 5 star rating vehicles it is pretty clear which one is safer.

Latteland 8y ago
I think the fair comparison is something like above a certain level nhtsa wants to say they are all good with little to distinguish them, but there are numeric differences. Like rating a moving from 1 to 5 stars. There is little discernable difference between a 4.8 and 4.9, but you could say "rated better than that 4.8 movie". I think tesla was the top on some numeric scale and nhtsa doesn't want to talk about small differences.
- goshx 8y ago
  The thing is... the difference is significant. Check this video out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxw_LSPBlGo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxw_LSPBlGo There are many others. The current 5 star cars were the best available in the industry, but it does not mean that nothing significantly better can exist. Tesla is pushing the industry forward with this.
  - csours 8y ago
    Disclaimer again: solely my own opinions. This is where you have to consider the whole safety design. In the video, the pole does intrude into the cabin more on non-Tesla vehicles; however, that means that more (de)-acceleration is passed on to the occupants of the Tesla. That is the purpose of crush zones, and also why no-context footage of crash tests can be very misleading. Additionally, there are side curtain airbags that will deploy before the pole actually gets to where the occupants' head would be.