8 ms·

> The details are stunning. Nearly 20% of responders reported sexual coercion or quid-pro-quo. Doesn't surprise me. A couple years ago my co-founder and I were

> The details are stunning. Nearly 20% of responders reported sexual coercion or quid-pro-quo. Doesn't surprise me. A couple years ago my co-founder and I were at a startup event, and an investor came up to another founder next to us and made a comment like, "Oh, you're way too hot to be a startup founder, what are you doing here?" It's a tricky problem to really make sense of though just because investors are so diverse. You've got things like: - People who got an MBA and for whom investing is their actual career. - Founders who exited their own startup and now it's their hobby or second career. - People who made a couple million dollars as doctors or lawyers and are now taking it up as a hobby in their 50s. - People who made tens or hundreds of millions of dollars from crypto or whatever in their early 20s and have now lost all touch with reality. - People who quietly manage family offices who occasionally add a startup to their portfolio. Not that it necessarily matters from the founder's perspective. But it's just a very different problem than addressing sexual harassment in tech companies, because you have a mix of people doing it as a career and people doing it for completely different reasons.

glibgil 8y ago
> It's a tricky problem to really make sense of though just because investors are so diverse Are you suggesting that traditional VCs and traditional tech leaders are less rapey than the list above? That seems like wishful thinking! Meta: these downvotes are wild. -4 at present. Someone makes a bullshit, hand wringing, concern trolling comment about how this is a "tricky problem" and that it cannot be pinned on VCs and tech leaders because of schlocky retired doctors and bitcoin barons. The statistics don't back that up as cited by a sibling commenter. What's funny about downvotes like this is that it's not even a social deterrent. I can get +4 for a one word comment as long as it's funny, but if I callout someone for getting the vapors and saying "not all men" I get wild downvotes
- scoggs 8y ago
  I think they might mean nailing specific people down to a tech company specifically. I could be wrong, though.
moorhosj 8y ago
>It's a tricky problem to really make sense of though just because investors are so diverse. Are they? I think it could be argued that investors are one of the least diverse groups. Analysis of 1,500 investors: ==70% are white ==40% of venture investors have attended Stanford or Harvard ==One percent of venture capitalists are Latinx and only three percent are black. -https://blog.usejournal.com/where-did-you-go-to-school-bde54d846188 https://blog.usejournal.com/where-did-you-go-to-school-bde54...
- glibgil 8y ago
  Don't forget ==82% are male
  - stretchwithme 8y ago
    And, apparently, women are in a position to change that if they want to. https://www.businessinsider.com/infographic-women-control-the-money-in-america-2012-2?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/infographic-women-control-th...
    - Alex3917 8y ago
      I guarantee if you follow the links they cite as 'sources', they will just cite other infographics or news articles.
      - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
        It's not that, they're just not explaining the reasons. For example, women control a majority of assets in large part because they statistically live longer than men. This makes them a higher percentage of the population in general, but a much higher percentage of the population of retirees with retirement savings. And they do most consumer spending because they're typically the ones who do the shopping for the family, even if on average half or more of the money is from the husband. The numbers are largely accurate. Though it's not clear how many 80 year old widows are inclined to invest their nest egg in a startup.
lasekar 8y ago
Well without even knowing or looking at the person, I can say he sounds too dumb to be an investor, what was he doing there?
- wpietri 8y ago
  Ah, the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Smart people can be assholes. Indeed, their smarts can make them much more effective abusers, as they're better able to escape notice and/or talk their way out of trouble when caught.
  - lasekar 8y ago
    lol, seems like you missed the point, just like how hot women can be founders too, dumb people can also be investors. I was merely making a counter comment to his comment.
pq0ak2nnd 8y ago
Or when the CEO (petite woman) and co-founder (old man) go to VC meetings and everyone thinks the the co-founder is in charge and the CEO is his secretary. Shit like this is rampant.
api 8y ago
> "Oh, you're way too hot to be a startup founder, what are you doing here?" People who are having trouble understanding why this kind of thing is harassment should try changing gender to something else. For example, imagine if you heard: "Whoa, listen to that Southern accent! Surprised to hear that here." "You're a Christian? Didn't know anyone who believed in that stuff would be in engineering..." "Sure you want to start a startup? You look like you need to lose some weight and sitting in a chair all day coding's not going to help..." ... and so on. I actually heard a version of the Southern accent example once. Classism and place-ism are things too. It wasn't long ago that students in some universities were advised to lose their Southern accent if they wanted to get work as engineers.
- XCabbage 8y ago
  I'm not sure what point you expect these examples to make. The second two are straightforward insults - which describing someone as "hot" is not - and the first one would be seen as completely harmless by many (perhaps most) people.
  - munchbunny 8y ago
    > The second two are straightforward insults That's exactly the point: if you can switch some group labels around and make an insult, then don't use the version involving gender.
    - XCabbage 8y ago
      The difference between the "hot" example and the "fat" example is not just switching some group labels around! The "hot" example is complimenting the recipient's appearance and expressing (presumably pleasant) surprise at their presence. The "fat" example is insulting the recipient and explicitly advising them against being there. We can imagine examples of weird and uncomfortable compliments that are in some way related to the demographics of the recipient - like someone attempting to flirt by telling a French man "Your voice is way too sexy for you to be a founder" or a well-built black man "You look way too athletic to be a founder". These seem about as socially inept as the "way too hot" example and strike me as reasonable analogues. But the examples in the post I replied to higher in this chain are nothing like this.

glibgil 8y ago

> It's a tricky problem to really make sense of though just because investors are so diverse Are you suggesting that traditional VCs and traditional tech leaders are less rapey than the list above? That seems like wishful thinking! Meta: these downvotes are wild. -4 at present. Someone makes a bullshit, hand wringing, concern trolling comment about how this is a "tricky problem" and that it cannot be pinned on VCs and tech leaders because of schlocky retired doctors and bitcoin barons. The statistics don't back that up as cited by a sibling commenter. What's funny about downvotes like this is that it's not even a social deterrent. I can get +4 for a one word comment as long as it's funny, but if I callout someone for getting the vapors and saying "not all men" I get wild downvotes

scoggs 8y ago
I think they might mean nailing specific people down to a tech company specifically. I could be wrong, though.

moorhosj 8y ago

>It's a tricky problem to really make sense of though just because investors are so diverse. Are they? I think it could be argued that investors are one of the least diverse groups. Analysis of 1,500 investors: ==70% are white ==40% of venture investors have attended Stanford or Harvard ==One percent of venture capitalists are Latinx and only three percent are black. -https://blog.usejournal.com/where-did-you-go-to-school-bde54d846188 https://blog.usejournal.com/where-did-you-go-to-school-bde54...

glibgil 8y ago
Don't forget ==82% are male
- stretchwithme 8y ago
  And, apparently, women are in a position to change that if they want to. https://www.businessinsider.com/infographic-women-control-the-money-in-america-2012-2?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/infographic-women-control-th...
  - Alex3917 8y ago
    I guarantee if you follow the links they cite as 'sources', they will just cite other infographics or news articles.
    - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
      It's not that, they're just not explaining the reasons. For example, women control a majority of assets in large part because they statistically live longer than men. This makes them a higher percentage of the population in general, but a much higher percentage of the population of retirees with retirement savings. And they do most consumer spending because they're typically the ones who do the shopping for the family, even if on average half or more of the money is from the husband. The numbers are largely accurate. Though it's not clear how many 80 year old widows are inclined to invest their nest egg in a startup.

lasekar 8y ago

Well without even knowing or looking at the person, I can say he sounds too dumb to be an investor, what was he doing there?

wpietri 8y ago
Ah, the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Smart people can be assholes. Indeed, their smarts can make them much more effective abusers, as they're better able to escape notice and/or talk their way out of trouble when caught.
- lasekar 8y ago
  lol, seems like you missed the point, just like how hot women can be founders too, dumb people can also be investors. I was merely making a counter comment to his comment.

pq0ak2nnd 8y ago

Or when the CEO (petite woman) and co-founder (old man) go to VC meetings and everyone thinks the the co-founder is in charge and the CEO is his secretary. Shit like this is rampant.

api 8y ago

> "Oh, you're way too hot to be a startup founder, what are you doing here?" People who are having trouble understanding why this kind of thing is harassment should try changing gender to something else. For example, imagine if you heard: "Whoa, listen to that Southern accent! Surprised to hear that here." "You're a Christian? Didn't know anyone who believed in that stuff would be in engineering..." "Sure you want to start a startup? You look like you need to lose some weight and sitting in a chair all day coding's not going to help..." ... and so on. I actually heard a version of the Southern accent example once. Classism and place-ism are things too. It wasn't long ago that students in some universities were advised to lose their Southern accent if they wanted to get work as engineers.

XCabbage 8y ago
I'm not sure what point you expect these examples to make. The second two are straightforward insults - which describing someone as "hot" is not - and the first one would be seen as completely harmless by many (perhaps most) people.
- munchbunny 8y ago
  > The second two are straightforward insults That's exactly the point: if you can switch some group labels around and make an insult, then don't use the version involving gender.
  - XCabbage 8y ago
    The difference between the "hot" example and the "fat" example is not just switching some group labels around! The "hot" example is complimenting the recipient's appearance and expressing (presumably pleasant) surprise at their presence. The "fat" example is insulting the recipient and explicitly advising them against being there. We can imagine examples of weird and uncomfortable compliments that are in some way related to the demographics of the recipient - like someone attempting to flirt by telling a French man "Your voice is way too sexy for you to be a founder" or a well-built black man "You look way too athletic to be a founder". These seem about as socially inept as the "way too hot" example and strike me as reasonable analogues. But the examples in the post I replied to higher in this chain are nothing like this.