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I swear, every time I read an article on HN about salary it gives me anxiety. I'm perpetually worried that I'm not earning as much as I should be earning. I do

I swear, every time I read an article on HN about salary it gives me anxiety. I'm perpetually worried that I'm not earning as much as I should be earning. I don't think it is healthy but I can't look away.

rebolek 8y ago
I'm not worried, I know it.
moneil971 8y ago
If you are making enough to live comfortably and save for the future, you're doing better than the majority of the population, don't worry about the comparisons!
tw1010 8y ago
Never evaluate yourself based on an abstracted metric of a population, without considering inescapable underlying correlated factors in the negative direction. (If all you know is reported salaries from anonymous people, then you don't know how much stress this distribution of people are under, and you don't know what tradeoffs they've had to make that you might not be willing to make, such as enough free time to enjoy the world of literature for instance.)
gnulinux 8y ago
I have the same problem. I'm actually intentionally underpaid because this way (1) I have less anxiety about getting fired (2) I have less problems with imposter syndrome (3) I worry less about being underpaid since I know I'm underpaid. I know most people will think this is extremely irrational, but I'm paid about 3 times more than I can spend (I live very cheap and am happy this way) so I already save 2/3 of my take home paycheck. At this point, having better mental health and working in a nice company that lets me solve hard software problems is the most important thing, imho.
- Sharlin 8y ago
  > I know most people will think this is extremely irrational I think that's perfectly reasonable. I find it hard to believe it would be "extremely irrational" to most people. Maybe I'm underestimating the extent to which money is fetishized in your culture (I presume the US). Also, being able to save 2/3 of your net salary is... a ludicrously privileged position, underpaid or not.
  - gnulinux 8y ago
    > Maybe I'm underestimating the extent to which money is fetishized in your culture I worked in the Bay Area and currently in Boston. I live in the startup culture. > Also, being able to save 2/3 of your net salary is... a ludicrously privileged position, underpaid or not. Yes! We software engineers are lucky. Even when we're underpaid (I'm paid $90k and my friends with similar experience, same education, same interest/skills are paid $150k--$250k) we can afford to have a comfortable life. It seems like I won't be able to afford to buy a house any time soon compared to say a Google engineer making $300k a year, but that's the only disadvantage I can think of now. (I hate mortgage and what not)
    - ljf 8y ago
      Amazing saving, at that rate just 10 years away from 'retiring' or living on the same money you give yourself today, forever... http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/15/a-brief-history-of-the-stash-how-we-saved-from-zero-to-retirement-in-ten-years/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/15/a-brief-history-of... Though if I ever get close to this the plan isn't to retire just to have total choice of the work I do.
    - aliston 8y ago
      How is it possible to save 2/3rds of a 90k salary in Boston? After tax, that's probably about 64k, which means you manage to live on 21k a year? The average studio in Boston rents for more than that a year...
      - gnulinux 8y ago
        I'm very young (21) so no need for a studio. My current rent is $900 including everything. I'm extremely conscious of what I eat to a paranoia level so I never eat out (except when I go out on a date with a girl or a close friends) so I cook home (I have a Trader Joe's literally next to my house) and my monthly food expense is $200. With various other stuff (gym, phone, entertainment, Uber etc...) I spend less than $1500 a month. I bike, so no transportation expense. My take home is ~$6000 a month. That lets me save around $4000/$4500 a month and $3000 on "bad" months (need to buy stuff, furniture etc...). I live comfortable enough that I don't know what I would do if I spent more than $1500 a month. I spend 90% of my free time in gym anyway :-)
- justaguyhere 8y ago
  I know I am getting underpaid, but I am okay with it. For me, it is the ratio of money and stress that matters. Lets say I get 20% hike but it comes with 50% more stress. I'd say no thanks and be happy with what I got. Better work is welcome, but more stress isn't.
  - airstrike 8y ago
    What if it's a 2,000% hike with 100% more stress?
    - gnulinux 8y ago
      I think there is definitely a stress ceiling after which I wouldn't accept any paycheck to let me do the job. But this is my personal opinion, I would imagine more stress => less demand on the job market => higher paycheck. For me, money isn't the end goal, but a necessary part of the adventure. When you play RPGs you don't try to make crazy money, you make enough to buy things you want in the game. That's kinda sorta how I see my financial situation.
      - airstrike 8y ago
        I hear you... Money isn't the end-goal for me either. I'm just hoping I'll be able endure the stress long enough so I can retire early (at age ~50) and enjoy a virtually stress-free retirement but we'll see...
    - azhenley 8y ago
      The other element I always consider is the risk. Right now the GP knows the amount of stress the job causes. Changing jobs has risk about his/her ability to estimate the stress caused by the new job. I have a tendency to ignore things like stress (hard to measure) when selecting a job while overvaluing things that are easy to measure.
  - allthecybers 8y ago
    I made a similar calculation a while ago when I moved from working at small companies to enterprise level tech and cybersecurity positions. My goal is to maximize the amount of money that can be made without the stress, pressure and demand of the job overtaking the enjoyment of the compensation. Admittedly, I could be making more money and being more aggressive in my career but ultimately I am satisfied with the balance I have found.
- nbeleski 8y ago
  > working in a nice company that lets me solve hard software problems is the most important thing A thousand times this. Working for a small company it is expected that they won't be able to pay a highly competitive salary, but I have quite a few benefits. However the most important part by far is being able to work solving software problems. Sometimes when doing explorative work I actually get to implement and (hopefully) reproduce recent scientific papers results. The highly technical work plus the low-pressure enviroment has been great for my mental health. I even get to leave early the days I have classes, with no reduced pay.
- wjossey 8y ago
  I applaud you for finding a way to manage your anxiety, which allows you to live a sustainable and full life. You only get so many years on this earth, so live it however you want! Best of luck to you.
- not_real_acct 8y ago
  In my experience, there's very little correlation between salary and longevity. There definitely seems to be a correlation between salary and "demand." For instance, Kubernetes is really hot right now, and there's a limited supply of people who know it, so people that know it can make upwards of $200K. OTOH, you could be the world's greatest Windows admin and you'll be lucky to make half that, because there's a million people who know Windows. TLDR: specialization is more lucrative than sheer hard work and expertise.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    Yes, although you always need to be looking toward the future. The market for Y2K consultants, even "world class" ones, wasn't so good in 2002. (Admittedly for a variety of reasons in addition to the obvious one.)
- eweise 8y ago
  I could see being underpaid actually causing you to get fired if it was a perceived signal for how valuable you are.
- foobarandgrill 8y ago
  I do the exact same thing, so you're not alone
- dtech 8y ago
  You are of course free to do this, but you bring up 3 points, let's inspect them. I'm assuming you're being underpaid by $6k or more a year. 1: Fair, but should you worry about getting fired? Even if you are in danger, if save 2/3 of your paycheck for every month of work you can afford a month of unemployment with no adjustment in lifestyle, that's already large, but you could increase this padding by having a market-conforming salary. 2: Is this worth $500+ a month to you? If so, I'd suggest you seek a therapist, because that is a much healthier long-term way to solve this problem. 3: Well yes... You can also try to not worry about it while earning more. A nice company, normal hours and a good and interesting job is certainly worth an enormous intangible amount! However, all things being equal I would not recommend you keep being intentionally underpaid.
  - anothergoogler 8y ago
    You're ignoring the fact that most highly paid positions come with a lot of bullshit. Depending on the position and company, that could be overwork, ridiculous politics, or the inability for your work to have any impact. I still make good money by my standards, but it's $65k less than my highest pay (cash, not RSUs). No regrets. I find your advice that somebody not maximizing their earnings "seek a therapist" a bit tone-deaf.
- arountheworld 8y ago
  You can get used to any salary in few months. You could be earning 2x as you currently are and feel exactly the same after a couple of months.
  - paulgrant999 8y ago
    make more. eventually, you hit a wall where you have to move to buy overpriced shit, that fits your new "salary". What do you think a billionaire does with his money? How much shit can you buy before you simply, run out of shit to buy?
    - arountheworld 8y ago
      You may assume that would happen, but unless you really have a thing to show off, you'll keep a similar lifestyle and just watch your savings account growing. I know very few people who permanently changed their behaviour after a sudden change in their earnings. This is of course just anecdotal evidence.
      - paulgrant999 8y ago
        Clearly you have not seen lotto winners. Or wall street people:) Or the really wealthy. ;) What your talking about, is upper-middle, lower-high. Eventually if you make enough cash, you will hit that limit. Sort of the whole "ball-washer" bit by Lewis Black.
        arountheworld 8y ago
        But I am clearly not talking about lotto-winners, but someone who gets 2x salary, who may behave weird first couple of months and then becomes "normal". I fully agree about the lotto winners though. I had witnessed it actually as my school friend's parents won. For lack of a better description - they have become like animals with unlimited money, but money ended quickly though.
        8y ago
SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
As a Canadian, I've learned to just not worry. I can't compare myself to the creme del la silicon valley crop, and that's ok. And as a millennial "work until I die" seems very natural as well.
efields 8y ago
If you're worried apply for another job and tell the hiring manager on the other end what you're expecting for a salary. Don't be ludicrous, but maybe ask for 20% more than you're making. See what they say. If they don't blink and want you to come in, you're right: you're not making enough. I've gotten, "Well, we should probably stop this call soon because my cap is X and you're asking for more than that." It was reassuring.
- onion2k 8y ago
  My advice is be to be ludicrous. Ask for far more than you think you're worth. As most people undervalue themselves you'll often find companies saying yes, or at least negotiating down to more than you'd have asked for if you capped your wage raise to 20%. If they hire you you'll then be faced with the feeling that you're out of your depth, overpaid, and incapable of doing the job you took, but that's a different set of problems.
  - Xcelerate 8y ago
    > My advice is be to be ludicrous. For recruiters who contact me from companies that aren’t my usual area of career interest, I do this to see what the upper bound is. It once backfired on me. Shortly after finishing grad school, a recruiter contacted me about a quantitative finance position and asked what range I was looking for. I replied “about $350k”. He responded, “We can work with that.” I think I had to scrape my jaw off the floor. I didn’t go any further with the process because the job seemed to require extensive travel and 80+ hour work weeks (and who knows if I could have even passed their rigorous interview process), but his reply was quite the revelation for someone who had never been in the workforce.
    - fossuser 8y ago
      I think quants can get 350k - 700k, extremely high compensation is the main draw of finance and what the positions seem to lead with.
      - 8y ago
ryandrake 8y ago
Don’t sweat these. Every HN salary thread, people come out of the woodwork to note that their sister’s roommate’s brother works at Facebook and makes $300k, therefore all tech workers everywhere in Silicon Valley make that much on average. For some reason, people here love to take outlier employees at outlier companies and hold them up as averages.
- chipotle_coyote 8y ago
  Yeah, this is something I always wonder. Every time salaries come up here the anecdotal numbers batted around as "standard" in Silicon Valley get higher, and every time I neurotically search around the net for corroborating information and find little to none. I don't doubt these high salary figures are real, but I have doubts they represent the median.
  - aaaaaaaaaab 8y ago
    It’s almost like trolling. “The average penis is 8 inch”
    - i_made_a_booboo 8y ago
      *18 inches
  - chillacy 8y ago
    Those numbers are probably TC (total compensation) which includes stocks and sometimes bonuses. If you go on Blind you can see people are receiving offers in that ballpark from Facebook and Google, who seem to be in a bidding war of sorts for talent.
    - twblalock 8y ago
      All of the valley is in a bidding war for talent right now. I don't think there has ever been a better time to be a software engineer. There was a while when startups were more attractive for compensation than FAANGs, but the big companies really stepped up their game. Nowadays you can work at a startup and hope to make a few million dollars in the unlikely event that it IPOs and you got in early enough to have a lot of shares, or you can work at a FAANG and be guaranteed to make a million dollars every 4-5 years, or even more frequently, and you'll have better benefits too.
ianlevesque 8y ago
Maybe an unpopular opinion but the pay gap is real and getting on the right side of it after years removes so much stress. Go apply.
40acres 8y ago
I'm worried and it's given me cause of action to prepare for interviews at companies that I know pay more for SWEs than my current company. To me, I see rising trends in terms of cost of healthcare, cost of buying a home, schooling for kids, kids themselves, caring for aging parents, etc. I just think "Damn, even with a salary that is way above median for the country, can I realistically reach all my goals in 'due time'?". Right now I'm not sure if the answer to that question is yes, but I know that when looking at some of the salaries I see around there that grabbing a job at that salary can definitely ease my anxiety. Preparing for SWE interviews is definitely a rat race, and I may need to move to a high COL area to earn these types of salaries, but it's a trade-off I'm willing to make to help ensure that I can reach the goals I've set for myself.
rhexs 8y ago
I get this same feeling reading the bogleheads.org investment forum. It's mostly comprised of the 1%, and while the investing advice really is wonderful, a lot of the questions asked are to the tune of "Is 3-10 million dollars enough to retire?" and "can I afford a 1 million dollar house making 510K a year?" The life advice they offer has a different set of (mostly comical) issues. Mostly revolves around various permutations of "I worked 30-40 years at a company and got a pension paying out 10-20x what I contributed. If millennials would just work harder, they too could do that!"
cannam 8y ago
I find them endlessly fascinating as well. My feelings are 1. Stop using the word "earning". We get paid, we don't necessarily earn our pay. Detach your pay from your perception about the work you do, and detach both from the value in the rest of your life. That may help you to take more money as well, if it turns out that that's what you really want. 2. As sibling comment says, it may be worth taking a pay cut in order to do something niche that interests you. I did this a long time ago and haven't regretted or reversed it. It returns the feeling of control to you. 3. Check out the country-wide or global statistics. I don't get paid all that much by HN standards, but I'm still in the top decile for my (rich) country. 4. People are very good at cutting cloth to what is available, and at making accommodations with it, so long as they are happy in other ways. I've had friends who get paid ten times what I do, and they are still living on the edge - one financial shock or employment setback and they're in trouble. My situation is no less secure than theirs.
- Jach 8y ago
  Related to #1, I'd also suggest stop using the phrase "should be" in respect to "earning" / "paid", at least if the goal is to reduce anxiety or plan on how to accept or change the number. If it's just complaining, though, "should" language is pretty natural and fine... The amount you get paid is a fact. It's comparable to other facts, but the comparisons themselves are also just facts. Maybe they and other facts will help you make a case for raising it (or to your manager, a case for lowering it), but if those arguments are couched in "should" language they are probably less likely to succeed.
- acjohnson55 8y ago
  > Stop using the word "earning". We get paid, we don't necessarily earn our pay. Beautifully put. I kind of want to frame this, because it captures the brutal honesty of compensation.
zer00eyz 8y ago
The answer: talk about how much your making - write the number down and publish it. The whole cultural bias against talking about how much money one makes has to go away - it serves no one except the people writing checks.
- mooreds 8y ago
  How much do you make? :)
  - zer00eyz 8y ago
    Depends on the month and client and contract. My friends and family rate has drifted down as low as $75 an hour recently, and I have gone as high as $400 an hour but it is uncommon. I don't "work" that much and make just shy of 200k a year. I also round out the 40 hour weeks when I'm not billable by doing networking, marketing and tools development.
louiswilbrink 8y ago
To add to your anxiety: right now might be the best time to negotiate for life-changing salary in your lifetime. All the market drivers are in place to make companies compete for senior/principle talent. Your salary is always a symptom of these economic drivers, not your tenure in the field. Your financial well-being will be defined by negotiating during these goldrushes. Taking a “good” salary during these times could be the biggest mistake of your career. Sleep on that!
blevin 8y ago
"Humans are designed not to be happy, but to pursue happiness -- including wealth and status. Unfortunately, such a pursuit partly promotes unhappiness. Discomfort with our current lot gives us the drive for absolute & relative success -- an evolutionarily useful trait." from a footnote in Anti Ilmanen, _Expected Returns_
Stryder 8y ago
The key is to accept that you'll never "earn as much as you should", let it go, and just live your life, find problems worth solving, and solve them. The rat race pays you one price in your hand while simultaneously taking another one out of your back pocket.
_qbxp 8y ago
I get the same weird anxiety reading these threads. I was making 50k base as a post-doc, anxious about ex-academic friends making 80k in the "real world". Then I got a corporate job making ~$120k, and felt anxious that I wasn't making the ~$150k some of my bosses and friends were making. Switched jobs, making ~$200k in a small southern city, and I come into threads like this ("$500k comp at FAANG) feeling anxious that I'm not making enough in my mid-thirties and don't have enough saved up for retirement. The crazy thing is, going from 50k to 200k, I can't honestly pinpoint whether I'm signficantly happier or not. So I try to not get envy about even the more ridiculous salaries. How does one get off the hamster wheel and feel content enough with salary to just live?
- Aeolun 8y ago
  Recognize that getting more salary is a fun goal to strive for, that might even get you some more options, but that you’ll be fine forever at your current salary regardless. I guess I’ve made it one of my goals to strive for more, but If I’d end my career at my current salary that would still be a solid endgame.
- efuquen 8y ago
  ~200k in a small southern city if you adjust for cost of living is about equivalent to $500k at a FAANG in SF/NYC. When you know people who brag about how cheap their $2000 a month tiny studio in an old poorly maintained building in midtown Manhattan you'd understand you have it pretty good making a salary like that in a place you actually have the freedom to move around without running into someone and easily afford a really nice house & property. https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/compare/little-rock-vs-new-york-manhattan https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/compare...
RaceWon 8y ago
A good sales manager in a busy new car dealership will make 140K a year. A general sales manager is at 165K. A General manager could be over 200K... these folks typically have a HS diploma in their pocket.

rebolek 8y ago

I'm not worried, I know it.

moneil971 8y ago

If you are making enough to live comfortably and save for the future, you're doing better than the majority of the population, don't worry about the comparisons!

tw1010 8y ago

Never evaluate yourself based on an abstracted metric of a population, without considering inescapable underlying correlated factors in the negative direction. (If all you know is reported salaries from anonymous people, then you don't know how much stress this distribution of people are under, and you don't know what tradeoffs they've had to make that you might not be willing to make, such as enough free time to enjoy the world of literature for instance.)

gnulinux 8y ago

I have the same problem. I'm actually intentionally underpaid because this way (1) I have less anxiety about getting fired (2) I have less problems with imposter syndrome (3) I worry less about being underpaid since I know I'm underpaid. I know most people will think this is extremely irrational, but I'm paid about 3 times more than I can spend (I live very cheap and am happy this way) so I already save 2/3 of my take home paycheck. At this point, having better mental health and working in a nice company that lets me solve hard software problems is the most important thing, imho.

Sharlin 8y ago
> I know most people will think this is extremely irrational I think that's perfectly reasonable. I find it hard to believe it would be "extremely irrational" to most people. Maybe I'm underestimating the extent to which money is fetishized in your culture (I presume the US). Also, being able to save 2/3 of your net salary is... a ludicrously privileged position, underpaid or not.
- gnulinux 8y ago
  > Maybe I'm underestimating the extent to which money is fetishized in your culture I worked in the Bay Area and currently in Boston. I live in the startup culture. > Also, being able to save 2/3 of your net salary is... a ludicrously privileged position, underpaid or not. Yes! We software engineers are lucky. Even when we're underpaid (I'm paid $90k and my friends with similar experience, same education, same interest/skills are paid $150k--$250k) we can afford to have a comfortable life. It seems like I won't be able to afford to buy a house any time soon compared to say a Google engineer making $300k a year, but that's the only disadvantage I can think of now. (I hate mortgage and what not)
  - ljf 8y ago
    Amazing saving, at that rate just 10 years away from 'retiring' or living on the same money you give yourself today, forever... http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/15/a-brief-history-of-the-stash-how-we-saved-from-zero-to-retirement-in-ten-years/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/15/a-brief-history-of... Though if I ever get close to this the plan isn't to retire just to have total choice of the work I do.
  - aliston 8y ago
    How is it possible to save 2/3rds of a 90k salary in Boston? After tax, that's probably about 64k, which means you manage to live on 21k a year? The average studio in Boston rents for more than that a year...
    - gnulinux 8y ago
      I'm very young (21) so no need for a studio. My current rent is $900 including everything. I'm extremely conscious of what I eat to a paranoia level so I never eat out (except when I go out on a date with a girl or a close friends) so I cook home (I have a Trader Joe's literally next to my house) and my monthly food expense is $200. With various other stuff (gym, phone, entertainment, Uber etc...) I spend less than $1500 a month. I bike, so no transportation expense. My take home is ~$6000 a month. That lets me save around $4000/$4500 a month and $3000 on "bad" months (need to buy stuff, furniture etc...). I live comfortable enough that I don't know what I would do if I spent more than $1500 a month. I spend 90% of my free time in gym anyway :-)
justaguyhere 8y ago
I know I am getting underpaid, but I am okay with it. For me, it is the ratio of money and stress that matters. Lets say I get 20% hike but it comes with 50% more stress. I'd say no thanks and be happy with what I got. Better work is welcome, but more stress isn't.
- airstrike 8y ago
  What if it's a 2,000% hike with 100% more stress?
  - gnulinux 8y ago
    I think there is definitely a stress ceiling after which I wouldn't accept any paycheck to let me do the job. But this is my personal opinion, I would imagine more stress => less demand on the job market => higher paycheck. For me, money isn't the end goal, but a necessary part of the adventure. When you play RPGs you don't try to make crazy money, you make enough to buy things you want in the game. That's kinda sorta how I see my financial situation.
    - airstrike 8y ago
      I hear you... Money isn't the end-goal for me either. I'm just hoping I'll be able endure the stress long enough so I can retire early (at age ~50) and enjoy a virtually stress-free retirement but we'll see...
  - azhenley 8y ago
    The other element I always consider is the risk. Right now the GP knows the amount of stress the job causes. Changing jobs has risk about his/her ability to estimate the stress caused by the new job. I have a tendency to ignore things like stress (hard to measure) when selecting a job while overvaluing things that are easy to measure.
- allthecybers 8y ago
  I made a similar calculation a while ago when I moved from working at small companies to enterprise level tech and cybersecurity positions. My goal is to maximize the amount of money that can be made without the stress, pressure and demand of the job overtaking the enjoyment of the compensation. Admittedly, I could be making more money and being more aggressive in my career but ultimately I am satisfied with the balance I have found.
nbeleski 8y ago
> working in a nice company that lets me solve hard software problems is the most important thing A thousand times this. Working for a small company it is expected that they won't be able to pay a highly competitive salary, but I have quite a few benefits. However the most important part by far is being able to work solving software problems. Sometimes when doing explorative work I actually get to implement and (hopefully) reproduce recent scientific papers results. The highly technical work plus the low-pressure enviroment has been great for my mental health. I even get to leave early the days I have classes, with no reduced pay.
wjossey 8y ago
I applaud you for finding a way to manage your anxiety, which allows you to live a sustainable and full life. You only get so many years on this earth, so live it however you want! Best of luck to you.
not_real_acct 8y ago
In my experience, there's very little correlation between salary and longevity. There definitely seems to be a correlation between salary and "demand." For instance, Kubernetes is really hot right now, and there's a limited supply of people who know it, so people that know it can make upwards of $200K. OTOH, you could be the world's greatest Windows admin and you'll be lucky to make half that, because there's a million people who know Windows. TLDR: specialization is more lucrative than sheer hard work and expertise.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Yes, although you always need to be looking toward the future. The market for Y2K consultants, even "world class" ones, wasn't so good in 2002. (Admittedly for a variety of reasons in addition to the obvious one.)
eweise 8y ago
I could see being underpaid actually causing you to get fired if it was a perceived signal for how valuable you are.
foobarandgrill 8y ago
I do the exact same thing, so you're not alone
dtech 8y ago
You are of course free to do this, but you bring up 3 points, let's inspect them. I'm assuming you're being underpaid by $6k or more a year. 1: Fair, but should you worry about getting fired? Even if you are in danger, if save 2/3 of your paycheck for every month of work you can afford a month of unemployment with no adjustment in lifestyle, that's already large, but you could increase this padding by having a market-conforming salary. 2: Is this worth $500+ a month to you? If so, I'd suggest you seek a therapist, because that is a much healthier long-term way to solve this problem. 3: Well yes... You can also try to not worry about it while earning more. A nice company, normal hours and a good and interesting job is certainly worth an enormous intangible amount! However, all things being equal I would not recommend you keep being intentionally underpaid.
- anothergoogler 8y ago
  You're ignoring the fact that most highly paid positions come with a lot of bullshit. Depending on the position and company, that could be overwork, ridiculous politics, or the inability for your work to have any impact. I still make good money by my standards, but it's $65k less than my highest pay (cash, not RSUs). No regrets. I find your advice that somebody not maximizing their earnings "seek a therapist" a bit tone-deaf.
arountheworld 8y ago
You can get used to any salary in few months. You could be earning 2x as you currently are and feel exactly the same after a couple of months.
- paulgrant999 8y ago
  make more. eventually, you hit a wall where you have to move to buy overpriced shit, that fits your new "salary". What do you think a billionaire does with his money? How much shit can you buy before you simply, run out of shit to buy?
  - arountheworld 8y ago
    You may assume that would happen, but unless you really have a thing to show off, you'll keep a similar lifestyle and just watch your savings account growing. I know very few people who permanently changed their behaviour after a sudden change in their earnings. This is of course just anecdotal evidence.
    - paulgrant999 8y ago
      Clearly you have not seen lotto winners. Or wall street people:) Or the really wealthy. ;) What your talking about, is upper-middle, lower-high. Eventually if you make enough cash, you will hit that limit. Sort of the whole "ball-washer" bit by Lewis Black.
      - arountheworld 8y ago
        But I am clearly not talking about lotto-winners, but someone who gets 2x salary, who may behave weird first couple of months and then becomes "normal". I fully agree about the lotto winners though. I had witnessed it actually as my school friend's parents won. For lack of a better description - they have become like animals with unlimited money, but money ended quickly though.
        8y ago

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago

As a Canadian, I've learned to just not worry. I can't compare myself to the creme del la silicon valley crop, and that's ok. And as a millennial "work until I die" seems very natural as well.

efields 8y ago

If you're worried apply for another job and tell the hiring manager on the other end what you're expecting for a salary. Don't be ludicrous, but maybe ask for 20% more than you're making. See what they say. If they don't blink and want you to come in, you're right: you're not making enough. I've gotten, "Well, we should probably stop this call soon because my cap is X and you're asking for more than that." It was reassuring.

onion2k 8y ago
My advice is be to be ludicrous. Ask for far more than you think you're worth. As most people undervalue themselves you'll often find companies saying yes, or at least negotiating down to more than you'd have asked for if you capped your wage raise to 20%. If they hire you you'll then be faced with the feeling that you're out of your depth, overpaid, and incapable of doing the job you took, but that's a different set of problems.
- Xcelerate 8y ago
  > My advice is be to be ludicrous. For recruiters who contact me from companies that aren’t my usual area of career interest, I do this to see what the upper bound is. It once backfired on me. Shortly after finishing grad school, a recruiter contacted me about a quantitative finance position and asked what range I was looking for. I replied “about $350k”. He responded, “We can work with that.” I think I had to scrape my jaw off the floor. I didn’t go any further with the process because the job seemed to require extensive travel and 80+ hour work weeks (and who knows if I could have even passed their rigorous interview process), but his reply was quite the revelation for someone who had never been in the workforce.
  - fossuser 8y ago
    I think quants can get 350k - 700k, extremely high compensation is the main draw of finance and what the positions seem to lead with.
    - 8y ago

ryandrake 8y ago

Don’t sweat these. Every HN salary thread, people come out of the woodwork to note that their sister’s roommate’s brother works at Facebook and makes $300k, therefore all tech workers everywhere in Silicon Valley make that much on average. For some reason, people here love to take outlier employees at outlier companies and hold them up as averages.

chipotle_coyote 8y ago
Yeah, this is something I always wonder. Every time salaries come up here the anecdotal numbers batted around as "standard" in Silicon Valley get higher, and every time I neurotically search around the net for corroborating information and find little to none. I don't doubt these high salary figures are real, but I have doubts they represent the median.
- aaaaaaaaaab 8y ago
  It’s almost like trolling. “The average penis is 8 inch”
  - i_made_a_booboo 8y ago
    *18 inches
- chillacy 8y ago
  Those numbers are probably TC (total compensation) which includes stocks and sometimes bonuses. If you go on Blind you can see people are receiving offers in that ballpark from Facebook and Google, who seem to be in a bidding war of sorts for talent.
  - twblalock 8y ago
    All of the valley is in a bidding war for talent right now. I don't think there has ever been a better time to be a software engineer. There was a while when startups were more attractive for compensation than FAANGs, but the big companies really stepped up their game. Nowadays you can work at a startup and hope to make a few million dollars in the unlikely event that it IPOs and you got in early enough to have a lot of shares, or you can work at a FAANG and be guaranteed to make a million dollars every 4-5 years, or even more frequently, and you'll have better benefits too.

ianlevesque 8y ago

Maybe an unpopular opinion but the pay gap is real and getting on the right side of it after years removes so much stress. Go apply.

40acres 8y ago

I'm worried and it's given me cause of action to prepare for interviews at companies that I know pay more for SWEs than my current company. To me, I see rising trends in terms of cost of healthcare, cost of buying a home, schooling for kids, kids themselves, caring for aging parents, etc. I just think "Damn, even with a salary that is way above median for the country, can I realistically reach all my goals in 'due time'?". Right now I'm not sure if the answer to that question is yes, but I know that when looking at some of the salaries I see around there that grabbing a job at that salary can definitely ease my anxiety. Preparing for SWE interviews is definitely a rat race, and I may need to move to a high COL area to earn these types of salaries, but it's a trade-off I'm willing to make to help ensure that I can reach the goals I've set for myself.

rhexs 8y ago

I get this same feeling reading the bogleheads.org investment forum. It's mostly comprised of the 1%, and while the investing advice really is wonderful, a lot of the questions asked are to the tune of "Is 3-10 million dollars enough to retire?" and "can I afford a 1 million dollar house making 510K a year?" The life advice they offer has a different set of (mostly comical) issues. Mostly revolves around various permutations of "I worked 30-40 years at a company and got a pension paying out 10-20x what I contributed. If millennials would just work harder, they too could do that!"

cannam 8y ago

I find them endlessly fascinating as well. My feelings are 1. Stop using the word "earning". We get paid, we don't necessarily earn our pay. Detach your pay from your perception about the work you do, and detach both from the value in the rest of your life. That may help you to take more money as well, if it turns out that that's what you really want. 2. As sibling comment says, it may be worth taking a pay cut in order to do something niche that interests you. I did this a long time ago and haven't regretted or reversed it. It returns the feeling of control to you. 3. Check out the country-wide or global statistics. I don't get paid all that much by HN standards, but I'm still in the top decile for my (rich) country. 4. People are very good at cutting cloth to what is available, and at making accommodations with it, so long as they are happy in other ways. I've had friends who get paid ten times what I do, and they are still living on the edge - one financial shock or employment setback and they're in trouble. My situation is no less secure than theirs.

Jach 8y ago
Related to #1, I'd also suggest stop using the phrase "should be" in respect to "earning" / "paid", at least if the goal is to reduce anxiety or plan on how to accept or change the number. If it's just complaining, though, "should" language is pretty natural and fine... The amount you get paid is a fact. It's comparable to other facts, but the comparisons themselves are also just facts. Maybe they and other facts will help you make a case for raising it (or to your manager, a case for lowering it), but if those arguments are couched in "should" language they are probably less likely to succeed.
acjohnson55 8y ago
> Stop using the word "earning". We get paid, we don't necessarily earn our pay. Beautifully put. I kind of want to frame this, because it captures the brutal honesty of compensation.

zer00eyz 8y ago

The answer: talk about how much your making - write the number down and publish it. The whole cultural bias against talking about how much money one makes has to go away - it serves no one except the people writing checks.

mooreds 8y ago
How much do you make? :)
- zer00eyz 8y ago
  Depends on the month and client and contract. My friends and family rate has drifted down as low as $75 an hour recently, and I have gone as high as $400 an hour but it is uncommon. I don't "work" that much and make just shy of 200k a year. I also round out the 40 hour weeks when I'm not billable by doing networking, marketing and tools development.

louiswilbrink 8y ago

To add to your anxiety: right now might be the best time to negotiate for life-changing salary in your lifetime. All the market drivers are in place to make companies compete for senior/principle talent. Your salary is always a symptom of these economic drivers, not your tenure in the field. Your financial well-being will be defined by negotiating during these goldrushes. Taking a “good” salary during these times could be the biggest mistake of your career. Sleep on that!

blevin 8y ago

"Humans are designed not to be happy, but to pursue happiness -- including wealth and status. Unfortunately, such a pursuit partly promotes unhappiness. Discomfort with our current lot gives us the drive for absolute & relative success -- an evolutionarily useful trait." from a footnote in Anti Ilmanen, _Expected Returns_

Stryder 8y ago

The key is to accept that you'll never "earn as much as you should", let it go, and just live your life, find problems worth solving, and solve them. The rat race pays you one price in your hand while simultaneously taking another one out of your back pocket.

_qbxp 8y ago

I get the same weird anxiety reading these threads. I was making 50k base as a post-doc, anxious about ex-academic friends making 80k in the "real world". Then I got a corporate job making ~$120k, and felt anxious that I wasn't making the ~$150k some of my bosses and friends were making. Switched jobs, making ~$200k in a small southern city, and I come into threads like this ("$500k comp at FAANG) feeling anxious that I'm not making enough in my mid-thirties and don't have enough saved up for retirement. The crazy thing is, going from 50k to 200k, I can't honestly pinpoint whether I'm signficantly happier or not. So I try to not get envy about even the more ridiculous salaries. How does one get off the hamster wheel and feel content enough with salary to just live?

Aeolun 8y ago
Recognize that getting more salary is a fun goal to strive for, that might even get you some more options, but that you’ll be fine forever at your current salary regardless. I guess I’ve made it one of my goals to strive for more, but If I’d end my career at my current salary that would still be a solid endgame.
efuquen 8y ago
~200k in a small southern city if you adjust for cost of living is about equivalent to $500k at a FAANG in SF/NYC. When you know people who brag about how cheap their $2000 a month tiny studio in an old poorly maintained building in midtown Manhattan you'd understand you have it pretty good making a salary like that in a place you actually have the freedom to move around without running into someone and easily afford a really nice house & property. https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/compare/little-rock-vs-new-york-manhattan https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/compare...

RaceWon 8y ago

A good sales manager in a busy new car dealership will make 140K a year. A general sales manager is at 165K. A General manager could be over 200K... these folks typically have a HS diploma in their pocket.