7 ms·

Well to be honest all human history can be described down to greed - all wars, conquests, colonisation, banking, investing, stocks and more. It's all about maki

by f055 8y ago

Well to be honest all human history can be described down to greed - all wars, conquests, colonisation, banking, investing, stocks and more. It's all about making profit. Whatever bad you can say about blockchain and coins, one is undisputed - it's the first time in hundreds of years when an individual can print money and not be called a criminal. And that's a big shift of power. To elaborate: thanks to blockchain there's nothing stopping you to create a coin for your group, your neighbourhood or your town - or the internet - that if adopted, will be accepted. And thanks to blockchain that coin actually works, is hard to forge, crack or counterfeit. And the mainstream electricity argument is short-sighted. Humans need energy to evolve (fyi Kardashev scale). Bitcoin et al is the best incentive to actually create innovative, powerful and cheap energy sources.

dragontamer 8y ago
> Well to be honest all human history can be described down to greed - all wars, conquests, colonisation, banking, investing, stocks and more. It's all about making profit. Blockchain's early history was basically crypto-nerds trying to find a new application of cryptography. Back then, people would give away Bitcoins for free in "Bitcoin fountains", and discussion focused on protocol issues and other aspects of building the technology. Greed came into the picture long afterwards.
- f055 8y ago
  Well this scenario applies to so many fields. Social media was a fun way to interact with friends. Then people started to show off professionally and endorse products for cash. Greed. "Greed is good" ;)
  - dragontamer 8y ago
    I think "Greed can be good" is really what people should realize. Greed is bad in many situations. But if you design your system SUCH THAT Greed is good, then the system will survive. Bitcoin has a bit of "greed is good" built in: the bitcoin miners are the mechanism that provide timestamps to the whole system. But higher-levels of greed were not accounted for (ex: ASICs farms using up so much electricity that the carbon footprint of BTC is HUGE now).
NickM 8y ago
it's the first time in hundreds of years when an individual can print money and not be called a criminal...thanks to blockchain there's nothing stopping you to create a coin for your group, your neighbourhood or your town Local currencies have been created and used in many places all over the world for a long time, without needing anything like crypto. Nobody is being called a criminal over this, it's quite common. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_i...
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  ..and its always been ok to make coins. Its only printed money that was protected?
  - Balero 8y ago
    It's legal in the UK: https://bristolpound.org/ https://bristolpound.org/ Plenty of places take this money. I have never seen one in the flesh.
  - NickM 8y ago
    Nope, printed money is fine too. I used to live in Ithaca, NY, which had a fairly successful printed currency called the "Ithaca Hour": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Hours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Hours
    - XorNot 8y ago
      The only possibly illegal thing is you must settle your debts for state currency if your debtors request it. It's to ensure company scrip remains suitably illegal.
- f055 8y ago
  Yes, but which of these currencies are not operated by a registered or regulated entity?
dubya123 8y ago
>Bitcoin et al is the best incentive to actually create innovative, powerful and cheap energy sources. This is actually the most unintelligent comment I have ever seen on the internet. Congratulations, you have achieved something great here.
- f055 8y ago
  Please elaborate, I'm going for popcorn.
  - dubya123 8y ago
    You basically said something to the effect of "Purple elephants are the best incentive for solving world hunger."
    - f055 8y ago
      It's hard to understand your point when you don't lay out a readable argument, but I assume your biggest grief is with the word "best" – ok, "good" also fits. Still can't see why it's so unbelievable to you. Maybe you have to think it through?
    - swift532 8y ago
      It was a pretty bold claim lacking evidence but your analogy is way off base. His claim has one missing step, while yours is a journey of a thousand miles.
- go_blue_13 8y ago
  /r/IAmVerySmart
- dang 8y ago
  Personal attacks will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong another comment is. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't do this again.
sam_goody 8y ago
> an individual can print money and not be called a criminal. > there's nothing stopping you to create a coin for your group I am not sure this is still true, due to the recent actions by the SEC. Now that ICO's are considered securities, and they are governed by those laws, many people who ran successful ICOs are worried about jail, and many who thought of doing so are no longer. It is still true as long as you stay small enough to fly under government radar, but that is true if you printed your own local physical money as well, as many fairs and schools do.
- f055 8y ago
  Indeed it's sad, but at least "for a time, it was good". Still, that only applies to some parts of the world at the moment. And I hope the next generation of coins will mitigate these laws.
- sosuke 8y ago
  You can create a coin with very little effort and technical knowledge. An interview with one of the Turtlecoin developers was done where they created a new fork in a live 2 hour stream. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7oqPL_4uXM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7oqPL_4uXM Or see the same developers post on creating the Athena fork https://medium.com/@turtlecoin/altcoin-101-create-a-cryptonote-privacy-coin-clone-in-one-hour-f14bff7eb2fd https://medium.com/@turtlecoin/altcoin-101-create-a-cryptono...
bsenftner 8y ago
Have you ever heard of the term "commercial paper"? Look it up: it is any corporation with sound financials being able to "print money" - just using debt and financial instrument terms. But it's the same thing, and is available to any corporation with good credit.
- f055 8y ago
  Hmm, is it me or does the word "individual" mean something different than I think it means. Several commenters point me to various currencies that are operated by registered companies or government bodies. How is that related to what I am saying?
  - bsenftner 8y ago
    Any individual can be a corporation with a little paperwork and incorporation fees. Your statement "it's the first time in hundreds of years when an individual can print money and not be called a criminal" is not correct due the previous sentence being true.

by f055 8y ago

dragontamer 8y ago

> Well to be honest all human history can be described down to greed - all wars, conquests, colonisation, banking, investing, stocks and more. It's all about making profit. Blockchain's early history was basically crypto-nerds trying to find a new application of cryptography. Back then, people would give away Bitcoins for free in "Bitcoin fountains", and discussion focused on protocol issues and other aspects of building the technology. Greed came into the picture long afterwards.

f055 8y ago
Well this scenario applies to so many fields. Social media was a fun way to interact with friends. Then people started to show off professionally and endorse products for cash. Greed. "Greed is good" ;)
- dragontamer 8y ago
  I think "Greed can be good" is really what people should realize. Greed is bad in many situations. But if you design your system SUCH THAT Greed is good, then the system will survive. Bitcoin has a bit of "greed is good" built in: the bitcoin miners are the mechanism that provide timestamps to the whole system. But higher-levels of greed were not accounted for (ex: ASICs farms using up so much electricity that the carbon footprint of BTC is HUGE now).

NickM 8y ago

it's the first time in hundreds of years when an individual can print money and not be called a criminal...thanks to blockchain there's nothing stopping you to create a coin for your group, your neighbourhood or your town Local currencies have been created and used in many places all over the world for a long time, without needing anything like crypto. Nobody is being called a criminal over this, it's quite common. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_i...

JoeAltmaier 8y ago
..and its always been ok to make coins. Its only printed money that was protected?
- Balero 8y ago
  It's legal in the UK: https://bristolpound.org/ https://bristolpound.org/ Plenty of places take this money. I have never seen one in the flesh.
- NickM 8y ago
  Nope, printed money is fine too. I used to live in Ithaca, NY, which had a fairly successful printed currency called the "Ithaca Hour": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Hours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Hours
  - XorNot 8y ago
    The only possibly illegal thing is you must settle your debts for state currency if your debtors request it. It's to ensure company scrip remains suitably illegal.
f055 8y ago
Yes, but which of these currencies are not operated by a registered or regulated entity?

dubya123 8y ago

>Bitcoin et al is the best incentive to actually create innovative, powerful and cheap energy sources. This is actually the most unintelligent comment I have ever seen on the internet. Congratulations, you have achieved something great here.

f055 8y ago
Please elaborate, I'm going for popcorn.
- dubya123 8y ago
  You basically said something to the effect of "Purple elephants are the best incentive for solving world hunger."
  - f055 8y ago
    It's hard to understand your point when you don't lay out a readable argument, but I assume your biggest grief is with the word "best" – ok, "good" also fits. Still can't see why it's so unbelievable to you. Maybe you have to think it through?
  - swift532 8y ago
    It was a pretty bold claim lacking evidence but your analogy is way off base. His claim has one missing step, while yours is a journey of a thousand miles.
go_blue_13 8y ago
/r/IAmVerySmart
dang 8y ago
Personal attacks will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong another comment is. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't do this again.

sam_goody 8y ago

> an individual can print money and not be called a criminal. > there's nothing stopping you to create a coin for your group I am not sure this is still true, due to the recent actions by the SEC. Now that ICO's are considered securities, and they are governed by those laws, many people who ran successful ICOs are worried about jail, and many who thought of doing so are no longer. It is still true as long as you stay small enough to fly under government radar, but that is true if you printed your own local physical money as well, as many fairs and schools do.

f055 8y ago
Indeed it's sad, but at least "for a time, it was good". Still, that only applies to some parts of the world at the moment. And I hope the next generation of coins will mitigate these laws.
sosuke 8y ago
You can create a coin with very little effort and technical knowledge. An interview with one of the Turtlecoin developers was done where they created a new fork in a live 2 hour stream. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7oqPL_4uXM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7oqPL_4uXM Or see the same developers post on creating the Athena fork https://medium.com/@turtlecoin/altcoin-101-create-a-cryptonote-privacy-coin-clone-in-one-hour-f14bff7eb2fd https://medium.com/@turtlecoin/altcoin-101-create-a-cryptono...

bsenftner 8y ago

Have you ever heard of the term "commercial paper"? Look it up: it is any corporation with sound financials being able to "print money" - just using debt and financial instrument terms. But it's the same thing, and is available to any corporation with good credit.

f055 8y ago
Hmm, is it me or does the word "individual" mean something different than I think it means. Several commenters point me to various currencies that are operated by registered companies or government bodies. How is that related to what I am saying?
- bsenftner 8y ago
  Any individual can be a corporation with a little paperwork and incorporation fees. Your statement "it's the first time in hundreds of years when an individual can print money and not be called a criminal" is not correct due the previous sentence being true.