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US Lawmakers Urge Canada to Snub China's Huawei in Telecoms

68 points by nopacience 8y ago

sandworm101 8y ago
Given all the animosity between the countries at the moment (Made in America, NAFTA 2, Bombardier, boarder delays, the Saudi fiasco, pending legalization of pot) now is not the best time for the US to urge Canada to impose any new restrictions. Canada laughed the last time the US described it as a national security threat (aluminum/steel tariffs) it will laugh at this one too. Canada needs improved cellular services and it needs them now. Canada's cell networks are much more regulated than those of the US. They cover vastly larger areas and are much more expensive to access. The insertion of national security politics will only slow progress.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  I see the Chinese mobile market as a serious threat to US cellular markets & phone manufacturers, something USA (with lobbying & special interest money) & its trade war is likely trying to prevent with propaganda campaigns. I would like to see CA laugh this off.
- duxup 8y ago
  I get the conflict, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't possibly still be in Canada's best interest. Basing the response on school yard type diplomacy would be unwise.
  - sandworm101 8y ago
    Canada's best interests are different than those of the US. Improved Canada-Chinese relations are much more of a priority as Canada looks for new markets. Security takes a back seat to trade as their top trading partner (US) becomes more and more erratic.
    - 99052882514569 8y ago
      If you think the US is erratic, check out how China bullies its neighbours and always seeks to control the infrastructure of the countries that supply it with raw materials it needs. The way I see it, the US may be erratic, but it's still a country with the rule of law. China is a massive unknown because it's a dictatorship run by competent but unconstrained (and therefore sketchy and unpredictable) group of people. Even worse now that Xi is going to a full single-man dictatorial model.
      - prolikewh0a 8y ago
        >If you think the US is erratic, check out how China bullies its neighbours and always seeks to control the infrastructure of the countries that supply it with raw materials it needs. I see you've ignored nearly the entire Middle East and what the USA has done almost everywhere in the world throughout its history.
        theandrewbailey 8y ago
        USA doesn't go around giving loans to build infrastructure in countries that have no realistic way of paying them back, then leasing said infrastructure back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magampura_Mahinda_Rajapaksa_Port https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magampura_Mahinda_Rajapaksa_Po...
        adventured 8y ago
        > I see you've ignored nearly the entire Middle East and what the USA has done almost everywhere in the world throughout its history. Everywhere in the world throughout its history? That's a pretty amusing statement, given the US barely left its shores for the first 140 years of its history. The US didn't even have a serious standing military until after WW1, and more realistically just before WW2. Demonstrably the US has done dramatically more good in the world than it has ill. In the era of the US superpower, the world has never been better off. It's just as absurd to ignore the vast good the US has been responsible for, as it is to ignore the mistakes it has made.
- make3 8y ago
  [deleted]
  - Analemma_ 8y ago
    Then it’s too bad the United States cried wolf and now no one will take them seriously when it comes to real threats.
- otoburb 8y ago
  >>Canada needs improved cellular services and it needs them now. In what way does Canada require improved cellular service? I'm nodding my head to the other points you've made but this one puzzles me. If you're talking about pricing, then I would agree there given more numerous and more transparent wireless competition in other countries. Canada's mobile networks are generally comparable to advanced (but not cutting edge) cellular networks around the world.
  - sandworm101 8y ago
    Yes, in Toronto and Vancouver. But drop a random pin on a map of Canada and it is a different story. There are towns only 50km from downtown Vancouver that lack any reliable cell coverage. I've been involved in a few SAR events, at major tourist spots beside highways, where the lack of cell coverage was a huge issue. Canada's distances also mean that there remain a great many communities without wired internet services. Satellite is very expensive, and increasingly difficult at higher latitudes. Cellular-based broadband is the only realistic option. http://www.comparecellular.com/images/assets/coverage-maps/bell-coverage-map-english.png http://www.comparecellular.com/images/assets/coverage-maps/b... Setting aside the north, take a look at how much of BC lacks any real cell coverage.
    - otoburb 8y ago
      There's huge demand for cellular-based broadband. I wasn't aware that TELUS' wireless coverage in the Interior was so bad, and slightly surprised that there isn't more negative news coverage when TELUS and Bell tout "national coverage". I'm sure the CRTC's roaming caps[1] will change some of the profitability scenarios per set of cell-sites. I will note that Saskatchewan (through SaskTel) seems to cover the province quite well even outside of Regina and Saskatoon. Re. cellular-based broadband - while there is huge demand in rural regions, the pricing is challenging. Basically, cellular-based "broadband" usually operates at a loss, but at least it's a loss that more carriers are willing to shoulder, in (small) part due to the CRTC's renewed call for action to review "universal broadband service"[2] in 2019. [1] https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2018/2018-99.pdf https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2018/2018-99.pdf [2] https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/internet/internet.htm https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/internet/internet.htm
sbradford26 8y ago
>"grave concerns” I just want to know what these grave concerns are. If they are such a big deal then the details should be released to the public.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > the details should be released to the public Details have been released. The Wikipedia page provides a good compendium of Huawei's intellectual property rights abuses, espionage and security concerns, workforce treatment issues and sanctions violations [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies
coding123 8y ago
What's this latest trend about evil huawai lately? If there is something to report then they should report it.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  Propaganda during a trade war with China.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > If there is something to report then they should report it. There has been a lot of reporting on Huawei's sketchiness. The Wikipedia page [1] is a good starting point. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies
g8oz 8y ago
Apart from U.S pressure, another point to consider is that Huawei is widely believed to have conducted large scale theft of Nortel IP in the 2000s. It's crazy that Canada would think of rewarding such conduct with important telecom contracts. edit: https://business.financialpost.com/technology/nortel-hacked-to-pieces https://business.financialpost.com/technology/nortel-hacked-...
- Leary 8y ago
  Only one person has made that accusation: Brian Shields, and he does so without any evidence.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > Only one person has made that accusation: Brian Shields, and he does so without any evidence There was a lot of evidence of the hacking [1][2]. What was unsubstantiated was Brian Shields' belief that "the extensive cyberattacks on Nortel contributed to its downfall" [3]. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203363504577187502201577054?_nocache=1329206812142&user=welcome&mg=id-wsj https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203363504577187... [2] https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2400242,00.asp https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2400242,00.asp [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nortel#Hackers_had_free_access_for_years_without_being_detected https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nortel#Hackers_had_free_access...
CleaningWithMud 8y ago
It really isn't a good time for the US to "urge" Canada to do anything. There is no surplus of good will between the countries after Trump's bullying and insults. Canada can make its own decisions.
- mcguire 8y ago
  This is the same Canada they're trying to start a trade wea war wor with, right?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
levosmetalo 8y ago
OK, so if I have a Huawei mobile phone running Android OS, who gets my data? US or Chinese governments and agencies? Or maybe Russian hackers, cause they are the one controlling the world and have access to everything?
uiri 8y ago
Based on Huawei's existing presence in Ottawa a couple years ago, I'd say that this ship has already sailed. Canada isn't going to kick out any of the companies that scooped up bits of what used to be Nortel.
- otoburb 8y ago
  Note that this isn't about kicking Huawei out of the existing network deployments (2G where it still exists, 3G & 4G/LTE). This is about not letting Huawei compete for 5G network infrastructure bids. I understand the national security concerns, but it should be noted that real incremental costs will be incurred if Canada agrees, especially for Canadian carriers who already have Huawei RAN[1], Packet Core[2] or GiLAN[3] (or worse, an entirely E2E bundled deal) infrastructure in place servicing their current needs. Huawei almost always has the lowest RFP bid prices, and through a combination of factors generally ends up on most RFx vendor short-lists. Their success is undeniable, and scares many. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_access_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_access_network [2] http://www.3gpp.org/technologies/keywords-acronyms/100-the-evolved-packet-core http://www.3gpp.org/technologies/keywords-acronyms/100-the-e... [3] https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/reference_architectures/2017/html/deploying_mobile_networks_using_network_functions_virtualization/background#gilan https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/reference_arch...
jason46 8y ago
Is there any reason info showing this company to be any more evil than any other China based cell company? Just curious why they seem to be targeted more than others.
mrschwabe 8y ago
Notice Telus is issuing Huawei routers to new households here in Canada. Telus, Bell, Rogers - the 3 monopolies here on internet - means you could have about a third or more of the country transitioning to Chinese hardware; that is a lot. As a Canadian citizen, I urge Canada to snub Huawei too. Doing business with businesses based in China for any reason should be met with extreme criticism simply based on the human rights atrocities that are happening there all the time; not to mention Chinese government's dismantling of free speech in Hong Kong [0] and its continued aggression towards the independent and separate country of Taiwan [1]. China's businesses should fix China's government before they expect to be rewarded with lucrative international deals to the scale that Telus (and Apple, et all) is awarding them. https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/14/beijing-taking-hong-kong-back-100-years-says-baggio-leung-new-convener-pro-independence-group-hknf/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/14/beijing-taking-hong-ko... https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/11/exclusive-beijing-tells-foreign-consulates-hong-kong-refrain-attending-taiwan-national-day-events/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/11/exclusive-beijing-tell...
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  Based on all of that, you shouldn't be doing business with the USA either.
  - azinman2 8y ago
    US isn’t doing anything like what China is doing with the Uyghurs.
    - Leary 8y ago
      The US just bomb Muslims with drones instead, much more humane.
      - stickfigure 8y ago
        Scale is a significant differentiating factor.
jorblumesea 8y ago
Given the cozy relationship between the Chinese government and Chinese telecoms, it's probably best to avoid any Chinese made electronics for infrastructure, if possible. Chinese military agents are even implicated in attacks on Western companies to help their own corporations. The scale at which companies work with the government and how the government funds companies makes it very hard to trust any Chinese company.
- endorphone 8y ago
  Fair points, but you can search/replace Chinese with American and the statements are arguably as true. From cozy relationships to telecoms, to compromising electronics for their own ends, to engaging in industrial espionage for US organizations (including against companies of allies -- the CIA and NSA are both engaged in economic espionage, and share useful information with corporate partners). It is a bit strange seeing the US yelling the warnings about China when really they just gained a peer doing the same things.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > you can search/replace Chinese with American and the statements are arguably as true Not really. American companies can and do defy the American executive branch. Rule of law and an independent judiciary are things in America. They are not in China.
    - endorphone 8y ago
      Rule of law and an independent judiciary are things in America A rule of law that is profoundly flexible to achieve whatever the US government wants to do. From secret courts and directives that you can't talk about, to the wholesale capture of telco traffic (with telco complicity, of course). And that rule of law allows the massive US intelligence establishment to do virtually anything internationally (which is the context that we're talking about), from sabotaging systems, performing economic espionage and stealing trade secrets, to murder. Virtually the same trappings and illusions of controls exist in China as well. Both countries do the same thing, and to an international country are interchangeable. The overall context to these discussions, however, is that the US is somehow good and China is somehow bad, so it's different.
jtregunna 8y ago
> As a Canadian citizen, I urge Canada to snub Huawei too. I'm not a fan of Huawei, but I am a fan of retaining our sovereignty. If the US wants the privilege of suggesting how we should run our country, then perhaps they should work on their end to repair the bilateral relationship. Currently, my vote is to tell them "Mind your own damned business."
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > If the US wants the privilege of suggesting how we should run our country, then perhaps they should work on their end to repair the bilateral relationship This article is based on the comments of two Senators, one a Republican who ran against Trump and the other a Democrat, asking Canada to do something. Given how close the American and Canadian economies are, it is of American concern that information which crosses north of the border might become vulnerable to Chinese exfiltration.
  - jtregunna 8y ago
    Sure, just saying, Canada should review any orders it makes towards telecom companies (full disclosure, I started and ran a telecom company from 2001 until 2010) from entirely a Canadian perspective and not account for any input from the US; doubly so given how the US government (like it or not, Trump is their president and reflects their government internationally) has treated Canada over the last year and a half.
    - r00fus 8y ago
      Sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
      - jtregunna 8y ago
        Uh, not my intent. I'm trying to illustrate that Canada has command and control regulations regarding telecommunication providers that operate in the country, and there are requirements for Canadian control. If equipment were factored into such decisions, that could go a way into resolving this problem. Though it'd probably create others. And for completeness, it's still Canada's decision to make, the rhetoric the US has been sending our way has left many of us feeling like the once good friend and neighbour, has decided that we're a threat to their national security. EDIT: Clicked too soon.
majia 8y ago
All the security concern about Huawei may actually make its devices more secure in the long run. The heightened scrutiny by various players not only deter Chinese government from conducting blatant hacks, but also expose many conventional vulnerabilities that pose a greater threat for most businesses. For example, UK intelligence agency has a joint testing center with Huawei to vet its source code and hardware design. It's really hard to find this kind of capable and independent party to perform such comprehensive security audit.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > All the security concern about Huawei may actually make its devices more secure in the long run This makes no sense. Nobody argues for purchasing a product based on a manufacturer's history of security failings.
  - majia 8y ago
    I didn’t say this is a reason to buy Huawei. I’m suggesting a side effect of security concern is improved security. To make secure software/hardware, it is really valuable to have people of different backgrounds to take a look. This is what many other venders do not have.
techVentureStar 8y ago
But isn't canada part of united states. Canadians should be grateful for all the good things Amurica did to them.
- dang 8y ago
  Please don't do this here.
balabaster 8y ago
Urge what now? Do you know who makes the rules over what I can and can't buy? Yes, that's right. Me. U.S. Lawmakers don't get a say, sorry. I'll buy what I want, thanks. The arrogance is astounding.
captainmuon 8y ago
Stupid question, but aren't essentially all routers made in China? Maybe not neccessarily by natively Chinese companies, but for sure in Chinese factories owned 51% by Chinese citizens? Or are there recommendable domestic options? What's the difference security-wise between a Huawei device and, say, a Motorola device made in China? I've used a Huawei LTE router from a German telco before and thought it was a pretty solid product, but given the recent headlines I find it hard to judge what's a legitimite concern and what's just "red scare".
- tracker1 8y ago
  It's hard to tell... China's government has definitely been involved in cyber-attacks to further business interests throughout the world. They've developed better soft skills and fostered a lot of relationships to that end. Some of these actions are entirely natural, others completely unscrupulous. It really depends and it's hard to be objective. In the end, I think it's been very ill advised for the U.S. Govt to allow so much of its' essential communications and other technical infrastructure to be delivered by foreign entities given domestic capability. I think we're only now starting to realize how much risk has been levied and how dangerous this has really been. Not just to domestic businesses, but to our own security. The advice to Canada isn't necessarily bad, however I'm not sure that I would trust U.S. entities any further given the amount of cyber-warfare coming from all sides, and spying all around. Larger countries should definitely work to at least form their own assembly plants for most goods if they're able to support that. It can at least minimize a lot of the risks.
diego_moita 8y ago
China is creepy and Huawei is not reliable. But, for Canada, being overly dependent on the US is much worse. I don't want this country to become a Northern Puerto Rico.
- dang 8y ago
  > China is creepy Nationalistic slights will get you banned here. Please don't do this again. Edit: looks like we had to warn you about this once before.
supergirl 8y ago
we should buy NSA made routers instead.
supergirl 8y ago
I would not trust a single word coming out of these politicians. they are basically spreading fud.

68 points by nopacience 8y ago

Given all the animosity between the countries at the moment (Made in America, NAFTA 2, Bombardier, boarder delays, the Saudi fiasco, pending legalization of pot) now is not the best time for the US to urge Canada to impose any new restrictions. Canada laughed the last time the US described it as a national security threat (aluminum/steel tariffs) it will laugh at this one too. Canada needs improved cellular services and it needs them now. Canada's cell networks are much more regulated than those of the US. They cover vastly larger areas and are much more expensive to access. The insertion of national security politics will only slow progress.

prolikewh0a 8y ago
I see the Chinese mobile market as a serious threat to US cellular markets & phone manufacturers, something USA (with lobbying & special interest money) & its trade war is likely trying to prevent with propaganda campaigns. I would like to see CA laugh this off.
duxup 8y ago
I get the conflict, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't possibly still be in Canada's best interest. Basing the response on school yard type diplomacy would be unwise.
- sandworm101 8y ago
  Canada's best interests are different than those of the US. Improved Canada-Chinese relations are much more of a priority as Canada looks for new markets. Security takes a back seat to trade as their top trading partner (US) becomes more and more erratic.
  - 99052882514569 8y ago
    If you think the US is erratic, check out how China bullies its neighbours and always seeks to control the infrastructure of the countries that supply it with raw materials it needs. The way I see it, the US may be erratic, but it's still a country with the rule of law. China is a massive unknown because it's a dictatorship run by competent but unconstrained (and therefore sketchy and unpredictable) group of people. Even worse now that Xi is going to a full single-man dictatorial model.
    - prolikewh0a 8y ago
      >If you think the US is erratic, check out how China bullies its neighbours and always seeks to control the infrastructure of the countries that supply it with raw materials it needs. I see you've ignored nearly the entire Middle East and what the USA has done almost everywhere in the world throughout its history.
      - theandrewbailey 8y ago
        USA doesn't go around giving loans to build infrastructure in countries that have no realistic way of paying them back, then leasing said infrastructure back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magampura_Mahinda_Rajapaksa_Port https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magampura_Mahinda_Rajapaksa_Po...
      - adventured 8y ago
        > I see you've ignored nearly the entire Middle East and what the USA has done almost everywhere in the world throughout its history. Everywhere in the world throughout its history? That's a pretty amusing statement, given the US barely left its shores for the first 140 years of its history. The US didn't even have a serious standing military until after WW1, and more realistically just before WW2. Demonstrably the US has done dramatically more good in the world than it has ill. In the era of the US superpower, the world has never been better off. It's just as absurd to ignore the vast good the US has been responsible for, as it is to ignore the mistakes it has made.
make3 8y ago
[deleted]
- Analemma_ 8y ago
  Then it’s too bad the United States cried wolf and now no one will take them seriously when it comes to real threats.
otoburb 8y ago
>>Canada needs improved cellular services and it needs them now. In what way does Canada require improved cellular service? I'm nodding my head to the other points you've made but this one puzzles me. If you're talking about pricing, then I would agree there given more numerous and more transparent wireless competition in other countries. Canada's mobile networks are generally comparable to advanced (but not cutting edge) cellular networks around the world.
- sandworm101 8y ago
  Yes, in Toronto and Vancouver. But drop a random pin on a map of Canada and it is a different story. There are towns only 50km from downtown Vancouver that lack any reliable cell coverage. I've been involved in a few SAR events, at major tourist spots beside highways, where the lack of cell coverage was a huge issue. Canada's distances also mean that there remain a great many communities without wired internet services. Satellite is very expensive, and increasingly difficult at higher latitudes. Cellular-based broadband is the only realistic option. http://www.comparecellular.com/images/assets/coverage-maps/bell-coverage-map-english.png http://www.comparecellular.com/images/assets/coverage-maps/b... Setting aside the north, take a look at how much of BC lacks any real cell coverage.
  - otoburb 8y ago
    There's huge demand for cellular-based broadband. I wasn't aware that TELUS' wireless coverage in the Interior was so bad, and slightly surprised that there isn't more negative news coverage when TELUS and Bell tout "national coverage". I'm sure the CRTC's roaming caps[1] will change some of the profitability scenarios per set of cell-sites. I will note that Saskatchewan (through SaskTel) seems to cover the province quite well even outside of Regina and Saskatoon. Re. cellular-based broadband - while there is huge demand in rural regions, the pricing is challenging. Basically, cellular-based "broadband" usually operates at a loss, but at least it's a loss that more carriers are willing to shoulder, in (small) part due to the CRTC's renewed call for action to review "universal broadband service"[2] in 2019. [1] https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2018/2018-99.pdf https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2018/2018-99.pdf [2] https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/internet/internet.htm https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/internet/internet.htm

sbradford26 8y ago

>"grave concerns” I just want to know what these grave concerns are. If they are such a big deal then the details should be released to the public.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> the details should be released to the public Details have been released. The Wikipedia page provides a good compendium of Huawei's intellectual property rights abuses, espionage and security concerns, workforce treatment issues and sanctions violations [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies

coding123 8y ago

What's this latest trend about evil huawai lately? If there is something to report then they should report it.

prolikewh0a 8y ago
Propaganda during a trade war with China.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> If there is something to report then they should report it. There has been a lot of reporting on Huawei's sketchiness. The Wikipedia page [1] is a good starting point. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies

g8oz 8y ago

Apart from U.S pressure, another point to consider is that Huawei is widely believed to have conducted large scale theft of Nortel IP in the 2000s. It's crazy that Canada would think of rewarding such conduct with important telecom contracts. edit: https://business.financialpost.com/technology/nortel-hacked-to-pieces https://business.financialpost.com/technology/nortel-hacked-...

Leary 8y ago
Only one person has made that accusation: Brian Shields, and he does so without any evidence.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > Only one person has made that accusation: Brian Shields, and he does so without any evidence There was a lot of evidence of the hacking [1][2]. What was unsubstantiated was Brian Shields' belief that "the extensive cyberattacks on Nortel contributed to its downfall" [3]. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203363504577187502201577054?_nocache=1329206812142&user=welcome&mg=id-wsj https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203363504577187... [2] https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2400242,00.asp https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2400242,00.asp [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nortel#Hackers_had_free_access_for_years_without_being_detected https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nortel#Hackers_had_free_access...

CleaningWithMud 8y ago

It really isn't a good time for the US to "urge" Canada to do anything. There is no surplus of good will between the countries after Trump's bullying and insults. Canada can make its own decisions.

mcguire 8y ago
This is the same Canada they're trying to start a trade wea war wor with, right?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

levosmetalo 8y ago

OK, so if I have a Huawei mobile phone running Android OS, who gets my data? US or Chinese governments and agencies? Or maybe Russian hackers, cause they are the one controlling the world and have access to everything?

uiri 8y ago

Based on Huawei's existing presence in Ottawa a couple years ago, I'd say that this ship has already sailed. Canada isn't going to kick out any of the companies that scooped up bits of what used to be Nortel.

otoburb 8y ago
Note that this isn't about kicking Huawei out of the existing network deployments (2G where it still exists, 3G & 4G/LTE). This is about not letting Huawei compete for 5G network infrastructure bids. I understand the national security concerns, but it should be noted that real incremental costs will be incurred if Canada agrees, especially for Canadian carriers who already have Huawei RAN[1], Packet Core[2] or GiLAN[3] (or worse, an entirely E2E bundled deal) infrastructure in place servicing their current needs. Huawei almost always has the lowest RFP bid prices, and through a combination of factors generally ends up on most RFx vendor short-lists. Their success is undeniable, and scares many. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_access_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_access_network [2] http://www.3gpp.org/technologies/keywords-acronyms/100-the-evolved-packet-core http://www.3gpp.org/technologies/keywords-acronyms/100-the-e... [3] https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/reference_architectures/2017/html/deploying_mobile_networks_using_network_functions_virtualization/background#gilan https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/reference_arch...

jason46 8y ago

Is there any reason info showing this company to be any more evil than any other China based cell company? Just curious why they seem to be targeted more than others.

mrschwabe 8y ago

Notice Telus is issuing Huawei routers to new households here in Canada. Telus, Bell, Rogers - the 3 monopolies here on internet - means you could have about a third or more of the country transitioning to Chinese hardware; that is a lot. As a Canadian citizen, I urge Canada to snub Huawei too. Doing business with businesses based in China for any reason should be met with extreme criticism simply based on the human rights atrocities that are happening there all the time; not to mention Chinese government's dismantling of free speech in Hong Kong [0] and its continued aggression towards the independent and separate country of Taiwan [1]. China's businesses should fix China's government before they expect to be rewarded with lucrative international deals to the scale that Telus (and Apple, et all) is awarding them. https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/14/beijing-taking-hong-kong-back-100-years-says-baggio-leung-new-convener-pro-independence-group-hknf/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/14/beijing-taking-hong-ko... https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/11/exclusive-beijing-tells-foreign-consulates-hong-kong-refrain-attending-taiwan-national-day-events/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/11/exclusive-beijing-tell...

prolikewh0a 8y ago
Based on all of that, you shouldn't be doing business with the USA either.
- azinman2 8y ago
  US isn’t doing anything like what China is doing with the Uyghurs.
  - Leary 8y ago
    The US just bomb Muslims with drones instead, much more humane.
    - stickfigure 8y ago
      Scale is a significant differentiating factor.

jorblumesea 8y ago

Given the cozy relationship between the Chinese government and Chinese telecoms, it's probably best to avoid any Chinese made electronics for infrastructure, if possible. Chinese military agents are even implicated in attacks on Western companies to help their own corporations. The scale at which companies work with the government and how the government funds companies makes it very hard to trust any Chinese company.

endorphone 8y ago
Fair points, but you can search/replace Chinese with American and the statements are arguably as true. From cozy relationships to telecoms, to compromising electronics for their own ends, to engaging in industrial espionage for US organizations (including against companies of allies -- the CIA and NSA are both engaged in economic espionage, and share useful information with corporate partners). It is a bit strange seeing the US yelling the warnings about China when really they just gained a peer doing the same things.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > you can search/replace Chinese with American and the statements are arguably as true Not really. American companies can and do defy the American executive branch. Rule of law and an independent judiciary are things in America. They are not in China.
  - endorphone 8y ago
    Rule of law and an independent judiciary are things in America A rule of law that is profoundly flexible to achieve whatever the US government wants to do. From secret courts and directives that you can't talk about, to the wholesale capture of telco traffic (with telco complicity, of course). And that rule of law allows the massive US intelligence establishment to do virtually anything internationally (which is the context that we're talking about), from sabotaging systems, performing economic espionage and stealing trade secrets, to murder. Virtually the same trappings and illusions of controls exist in China as well. Both countries do the same thing, and to an international country are interchangeable. The overall context to these discussions, however, is that the US is somehow good and China is somehow bad, so it's different.

jtregunna 8y ago

> As a Canadian citizen, I urge Canada to snub Huawei too. I'm not a fan of Huawei, but I am a fan of retaining our sovereignty. If the US wants the privilege of suggesting how we should run our country, then perhaps they should work on their end to repair the bilateral relationship. Currently, my vote is to tell them "Mind your own damned business."

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> If the US wants the privilege of suggesting how we should run our country, then perhaps they should work on their end to repair the bilateral relationship This article is based on the comments of two Senators, one a Republican who ran against Trump and the other a Democrat, asking Canada to do something. Given how close the American and Canadian economies are, it is of American concern that information which crosses north of the border might become vulnerable to Chinese exfiltration.
- jtregunna 8y ago
  Sure, just saying, Canada should review any orders it makes towards telecom companies (full disclosure, I started and ran a telecom company from 2001 until 2010) from entirely a Canadian perspective and not account for any input from the US; doubly so given how the US government (like it or not, Trump is their president and reflects their government internationally) has treated Canada over the last year and a half.
  - r00fus 8y ago
    Sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
    - jtregunna 8y ago
      Uh, not my intent. I'm trying to illustrate that Canada has command and control regulations regarding telecommunication providers that operate in the country, and there are requirements for Canadian control. If equipment were factored into such decisions, that could go a way into resolving this problem. Though it'd probably create others. And for completeness, it's still Canada's decision to make, the rhetoric the US has been sending our way has left many of us feeling like the once good friend and neighbour, has decided that we're a threat to their national security. EDIT: Clicked too soon.

majia 8y ago

All the security concern about Huawei may actually make its devices more secure in the long run. The heightened scrutiny by various players not only deter Chinese government from conducting blatant hacks, but also expose many conventional vulnerabilities that pose a greater threat for most businesses. For example, UK intelligence agency has a joint testing center with Huawei to vet its source code and hardware design. It's really hard to find this kind of capable and independent party to perform such comprehensive security audit.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> All the security concern about Huawei may actually make its devices more secure in the long run This makes no sense. Nobody argues for purchasing a product based on a manufacturer's history of security failings.
- majia 8y ago
  I didn’t say this is a reason to buy Huawei. I’m suggesting a side effect of security concern is improved security. To make secure software/hardware, it is really valuable to have people of different backgrounds to take a look. This is what many other venders do not have.

techVentureStar 8y ago

But isn't canada part of united states. Canadians should be grateful for all the good things Amurica did to them.

dang 8y ago
Please don't do this here.

balabaster 8y ago

Urge what now? Do you know who makes the rules over what I can and can't buy? Yes, that's right. Me. U.S. Lawmakers don't get a say, sorry. I'll buy what I want, thanks. The arrogance is astounding.

captainmuon 8y ago

Stupid question, but aren't essentially all routers made in China? Maybe not neccessarily by natively Chinese companies, but for sure in Chinese factories owned 51% by Chinese citizens? Or are there recommendable domestic options? What's the difference security-wise between a Huawei device and, say, a Motorola device made in China? I've used a Huawei LTE router from a German telco before and thought it was a pretty solid product, but given the recent headlines I find it hard to judge what's a legitimite concern and what's just "red scare".

tracker1 8y ago
It's hard to tell... China's government has definitely been involved in cyber-attacks to further business interests throughout the world. They've developed better soft skills and fostered a lot of relationships to that end. Some of these actions are entirely natural, others completely unscrupulous. It really depends and it's hard to be objective. In the end, I think it's been very ill advised for the U.S. Govt to allow so much of its' essential communications and other technical infrastructure to be delivered by foreign entities given domestic capability. I think we're only now starting to realize how much risk has been levied and how dangerous this has really been. Not just to domestic businesses, but to our own security. The advice to Canada isn't necessarily bad, however I'm not sure that I would trust U.S. entities any further given the amount of cyber-warfare coming from all sides, and spying all around. Larger countries should definitely work to at least form their own assembly plants for most goods if they're able to support that. It can at least minimize a lot of the risks.

diego_moita 8y ago

China is creepy and Huawei is not reliable. But, for Canada, being overly dependent on the US is much worse. I don't want this country to become a Northern Puerto Rico.

dang 8y ago
> China is creepy Nationalistic slights will get you banned here. Please don't do this again. Edit: looks like we had to warn you about this once before.

supergirl 8y ago

we should buy NSA made routers instead.

supergirl 8y ago

I would not trust a single word coming out of these politicians. they are basically spreading fud.